Does God exist?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

I sure wouldn't need to be if I could snap my finger and do away with everything that's ever existed. Hell, he could end our universe with a thought. The Devil should be lucky he has the power he has.

And why is that? Because he got it from God's Mercy?

[warmunger]

Cuz God coulda just banished him away with no chance to gain any power. It seems to me that the Devil has all the abilities an angel could have.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

Cuz God coulda just banished him away with no chance to gain any power. It seems to me that the Devil has all the abilities an angel could have.

That was part of the intent wasn't it?

He's definitely powerful and meant to "rule" over Earth, but God still has the greater power right?

[warmunger]

He should, God did create him after all.

I mean no one can stand against God but a human with the faith the size of a mustard seed can stand to the Devil.

I believe God's power is limitless while the Devil's power relies on the sins of humans.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

He should, God did create him after all.

I mean no one can stand against God but a human with the faith the size of a mustard seed can stand to the Devil.

I believe God's power is limitless while the Devil's power relies on the sins of humans.

That is a good way to put it, well spoken!

[warmunger]

Muchas Gracias!

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

Muchas Gracias!

Np.

[warmunger]

Que?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

No problem.

[Dja Majista]

warmunger said:

He should, God did create him after all.

I mean no one can stand against God but a human with the faith the size of a mustard seed can stand to the Devil.

I believe God's power is limitless while the Devil's power relies on the sins of humans.

huh, interesting...

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

warmunger said:

He should, God did create him after all.

I mean no one can stand against God but a human with the faith the size of a mustard seed can stand to the Devil.

I believe God's power is limitless while the Devil's power relies on the sins of humans.

huh, interesting...

Yea, it lets you know the world is always larger than you think.

[Dja Majista]

admin said:

damasta said:

huh, interesting...

Yea, it lets you know the world is always larger than you think.

how so?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

admin said:

Yea, it lets you know the world is always larger than you think.

how so?

Because people have many varied views. C'mon.

[Dja Majista]

oh I thought you meant in a more literal sense, like in regards to the subject... did I already tell you your sig is badass?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

oh I thought you meant in a more literal sense, like in regards to the subject... did I already tell you your sig is badass?

Dunno, let me check my mail.

[tshern]

Obviously this thread has been dead and buried for a long time since I haven't been here playing devil's advocate, but I have to give you God's people some credit now. When I was in the army, I read a lot of Descartes and he was smart, damn witty indeed. Don't take me wrong, he didn't change my opinions or actually provide any facts, but he was good with words and I consider his texts to be the best material that aims to prove God's existence. Ever.

Peace.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

tshern said:

Obviously this thread has been dead and buried for a long time since I haven't been here playing devil's advocate, but I have to give you God's people some credit now. When I was in the army, I read a lot of Descartes and he was smart, damn witty indeed. Don't take me wrong, he didn't change my opinions or actually provide any facts, but he was good with words and I consider his texts to be the best material that aims to prove God's existence. Ever.

Peace.

Do you have any link to the reference you speak of? I love to read different stuff.

I consider everyone (even non believers) God's people though.

[Dja Majista]

Descartes eh?
This thread really hasn't seen many organized arguments, but it's an extremely broad question. So really you just have to know where to start.

Anyways, I'm almost 95% percent sure I'll be ending my education with a Ph.D in Philosophy. So I'm pretty interested to hear Descartes argument here. Can you link us to it?

[JACK-2]

"Do you believe that God exsist?"

Litterally, as in an actual supernatural being who is omnipotent and created the universe? If that's what you mean, then the answer is no. Infact, the notion is a tad bit absurd IMO. But, I do believe in the concept of GOD I.E. a higher form of intelligence and/or a vital force to the universe. Most gods in mythology were actually metaphors for natural occuring events or phenomenon. Worship of: Fertility, Celestial Bodies, Concepts, ETC. . .

I'm religous, but I'm not litteralist though. meaning I don't believe that events in books such as the bible are historicaly accurate nor meant to be taken litterally. There stories mean't to bring out the best in us all. The characters are metaphors for abstract concepts or spins on real events.

-Atom Ant Out

[/I]

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

thebluedragongales said:

"Do you believe that God exsist?"

Litterally, as in an actual supernatural being who is omnipotent and created the universe? If that's what you mean, then the answer is no. Infact, the notion is a tad bit absurd IMO. But, I do believe in the concept of GOD I.E. a higher form of intelligence and/or a vital force to the universe. Most gods in mythology were actually metaphors for natural occuring events or phenomenon. Worship of: Fertility, Celestial Bodies, Concepts, ETC. . .

I'm religous, but I'm not litteralist though. meaning I don't believe that events in books such as the bible are historicaly accurate nor meant to be taken litterally. There stories mean't to bring out the best in us all. The characters are metaphors for abstract concepts or spins on real events.

-Atom Ant Out

[/I]

[/quote] So you believe in a higher being, but not a perfect, all powerful one. Do you believe there is one god, or many?

[tshern]

I'm afraid I can't link the exact pieces of work I went through, since I read 'em in Finnish. Some parts were about stuff like theoretical algebra and I wasn't sure how well would I have managed in English and on top of that, our library only had the Finnish versions.

What I liked most in his books was how he deduced that God exists because someone is fooling our senses. For example if you have wax, it has certain physical properties, but when you lit it on fire, the properties changes, yet the substance is supposed to be the same.

You can probably find most of the important stuff here.

Atom and: Dick Tracy rocks hard, I adore your avatar.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

tshern said:

I'm afraid I can't link the exact pieces of work I went through, since I read 'em in Finnish. Some parts were about stuff like theoretical algebra and I wasn't sure how well would I have managed in English and on top of that, our library only had the Finnish versions.

What I liked most in his books was how he deduced that God exists because someone is fooling our senses. For example if you have wax, it has certain physical properties, but when you lit it on fire, the properties changes, yet the substance is supposed to be the same.

You can probably find most of the important stuff here.

Atom and: Dick Tracy rocks hard, I adore your avatar.

Anything else I want to find I'm sure I can do a search for it, thanks for all though. I'm sure I've heard that name before in college literature or something.

[Dja Majista]

tshern said:

I'm afraid I can't link the exact pieces of work I went through, since I read 'em in Finnish. Some parts were about stuff like theoretical algebra and I wasn't sure how well would I have managed in English and on top of that, our library only had the Finnish versions.

What I liked most in his books was how he deduced that God exists because someone is fooling our senses. For example if you have wax, it has certain physical properties, but when you lit it on fire, the properties changes, yet the substance is supposed to be the same.

You can probably find most of the important stuff here.

Atom and: Dick Tracy rocks hard, I adore your avatar.

Yeah when last I checked, I didn't see it on wiki (or just didn't find a section for it cause I'm too lazy to read the whole thing). However, what your saying sounds a lot like Plato's allegory of the cave. Essentially, we only have five senses out of who-knows-how-many possible. That's not to say that our five sense are corrupt, they merely should be recognized as capable only of giving us a fragmented perspective on absolute reality.
From an evolutionary standpoint, we only have the senses that are necessary for survival at a primitive state. So if there really were spirits everywhere, the reason we can't see them is simply because we don't need to or we haven't evolved to that level.
Though, as a Christian, I believe that's the way God designed us for a reason. He didn't give us the ability to percieve him directly because he calls for faith in people. I don't think his presence was meant to be proven nor disproven, simply evident.
Anyway, back to the point, you said Descartes talked about how someone is fooling our senses? That's a new one; I haven't heard that before...

[JACK-2]

So you believe in a higher being, but not a perfect, all powerful one. Do you believe there is one god, or many?

No, I don't believe in a supreme being. God to me is any force that has a powerful and profound effect on the lives and affairs of beings in this universe Both physically and psychologically. Not, some high level entity.

What I meant by higher intelligence is basically higher forms of consciousness. I believe that's GOD as well. Ultimately, the most important thing to me when it comes to faith is the individuals personal relationship with GOD. I'm sure a public relationship with the clergy and God has it's purpose. But, all religions to me are tools that allow an individual to better know himself and his relationship with "God".

-Atom Ant Out[/I]

[Dja Majista]

thebluedragongales said:

So you believe in a higher being, but not a perfect, all powerful one. Do you believe there is one god, or many?

No, I don't believe in a supreme being. God to me is any force that has a powerful and profound effect on the lives and affairs of beings in this universe Both physically and psychologically. Not, some high level entity.

So a god could simply be an ideal that drives people?

[JACK-2]

I believe that GOD is more conceptual versus a literal God. So, yes it could be a driving force, and so much more.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptions_of_God

The discussion of GOD is very complex, but always conceptual.

-Atom Ant Out[/I]

[Dja Majista]

But what is it that suspends the possibility of a literal God?

[JACK-2]

Logic, we live in a world where most things can be measured and can be deduced using logic. I just don't see any evidence, suggesting the existence of an all encompassing entity outside of the universe that no one can prove exist but is really there and created everything. Science doesn't support that notion and neither will I.


Unless, your not getting at that. A litteral God could be E.T's ?
-Atom Ant Out[/I]

[Dja Majista]

thebluedragongales said:

Logic, we live in a world where most things can be measured and can be deduced using logic. I just don't see any evidence, suggesting the existence of an all encompassing entity outside of the universe that no one can prove exist but is really there and created everything. Science doesn't support that notion and neither will I.

-Atom Ant Out

[/I][/quote]

Nope, not E.T.'s. Don't worry I'm not gonna get extragalactic on us here.

Science doesn't debunk it either; not with any solid laws anyway. That's my point. I have no intention of proving to you that God exists. Simply that the concept of a literal God should be recognized as "plausible" is all I want to get across. And additionally, because he is a plausible entity, his presence is relevant, and should be contemplated seriously and diligently rather than be marked off is unrealistic.
In terms of evidence, what makes the bible so unreliable? Personally my evidence rests in more than just the bible, because I've seen his miraculous works over the course of my life. However, I don't expect you will believe me if you refuse the historicity of the bible, particularly from Jesus' miracles. But my main question stands as: What makes the bible an unreliable source of evidence? Especially when there have been no archeological claims to contradict the events (rather, many have supported them).

On another note, I'd like to add that your respect for logic as the best means for inquiry on real subjects is music to my ears...

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

thebluedragongales said:

So you believe in a higher being, but not a perfect, all powerful one. Do you believe there is one god, or many?

No, I don't believe in a supreme being. God to me is any force that has a powerful and profound effect on the lives and affairs of beings in this universe Both physically and psychologically. Not, some high level entity.

What I meant by higher intelligence is basically higher forms of consciousness. I believe that's GOD as well. Ultimately, the most important thing to me when it comes to faith is the individuals personal relationship with GOD. I'm sure a public relationship with the clergy and God has it's purpose. But, all religions to me are tools that allow an individual to better know himself and his relationship with "God".

-Atom Ant Out

[/I][/quote]I myself of course relish the relationship, but I've seen the importance of fellowship with other Christians even if their views aren't like yours.