Does God exist?

[Psyquis52]

esteemedleader said:

Man was built in the image of God.

Then why does God have nipples and a penis? And didn't you say earlier that God looks like whatever he wants to? So how could man be made in his image?

First of all: Let me clear up a little error in translation here. There are two words for Image in the Hebrew language. Of which I can't remember a single one but I do remember the definitions:
1 - means exterior. What a person's appearance is in the face/ body/ stature so forth...

2 - interior. What a person is like inside.

We are built in God's own image as in: interior not exterior. Angels are built to reflect God's physical being and I'm not even going to touch that one.

We have free-choice. Something no angel has or demon has. We have....

What am I doing here? Esteemed Leader, you are clearly not interested in what we have to say. I'm not sure what your point is here but if you want to really build a solid arguement for your side you might actually take a minute to read a Bible. Otherwise, you're coming up a little weak on your end.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

psyquis52 said:

esteemedleader said:

Then why does God have nipples and a penis? And didn't you say earlier that God looks like whatever he wants to? So how could man be made in his image?

First of all: Let me clear up a little error in translation here. There are two words for Image in the Hebrew language. Of which I can't remember a single one but I do remember the definitions:
1 - means exterior. What a person's appearance is in the face/ body/ stature so forth...

2 - interior. What a person is like inside.

We are built in God's own image as in: interior not exterior. Angels are built to reflect God's physical being and I'm not even going to touch that one.

We have free-choice. Something no angel has or demon has. We have....

What am I doing here? Esteemed Leader, you are clearly not interested in what we have to say. I'm not sure what your point is here but if you want to really build a solid arguement for your side you might actually take a minute to read a Bible. Otherwise, you're coming up a little weak on your end.

Ok so I was a bit incorrect, but thanks for clearing that up...

[Dja Majista]

Christianity is heavily based on suspension of disbelief. There are many, many, simple inconsistancies that obviously point to falsehood.

Just think of simple anatomy. Why do angels look like a hybrid of human and bird if neither existed yet? Why did Adam have nipples and a penis?

If the Earth was created in seven days, then why were there mountains? Why would an omnipotent being need a day of rest? If Jesus was the savior, who did he save? Why did he die? Why would he come back?

And your ignorance shows. I would advise doing some research on your own. You clearly haven't read very much of the bible. Honestly, some of these "thought provoking" questions could be answered accurately by a four-year-old.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

Christianity is heavily based on suspension of disbelief. There are many, many, simple inconsistancies that obviously point to falsehood.

Just think of simple anatomy. Why do angels look like a hybrid of human and bird if neither existed yet? Why did Adam have nipples and a penis?

If the Earth was created in seven days, then why were there mountains? Why would an omnipotent being need a day of rest? If Jesus was the savior, who did he save? Why did he die? Why would he come back?

And your ignorance shows. I would advise doing some research on your own. You clearly haven't read very much of the bible. Honestly, some of these "thought provoking" questions could be answered accurately by a four-year-old.

That's giving four year olds the benefit of the doubt.

[darthrevan]

damasta said:

Christianity is heavily based on suspension of disbelief. There are many, many, simple inconsistancies that obviously point to falsehood.

Just think of simple anatomy. Why do angels look like a hybrid of human and bird if neither existed yet? Why did Adam have nipples and a penis?

If the Earth was created in seven days, then why were there mountains? Why would an omnipotent being need a day of rest? If Jesus was the savior, who did he save? Why did he die? Why would he come back?

And your ignorance shows. I would advise doing some research on your own. You clearly haven't read very much of the bible. Honestly, some of these "thought provoking" questions could be answered accurately by a four-year-old.

I agree. For one, just because certain angels look like a cross between bird and human doesn't mean that it came from one. Angels were created directly from God. Adam had nipples and a penis because that's how male humans look (duh). Also, a day to God could be thousands of years to us, so that would be enough time for mountains to form. Jesus is humanities savior (that is an obvious one). He died to show how much God loves us.

[Dja Majista]

darthrevan said:

damasta said:

And your ignorance shows. I would advise doing some research on your own. You clearly haven't read very much of the bible. Honestly, some of these "thought provoking" questions could be answered accurately by a four-year-old.

I agree. For one, just because certain angels look like a cross between bird and human doesn't mean that it came from one. Angels were created directly from God. Adam had nipples and a penis because that's how male humans look (duh). Also, a day to God could be thousands of years to us, so that would be enough time for mountains to form. Jesus is humanities savior (that is an obvious one). He died to show how much God loves us.

well that and who says erosion's the only thing that makes mountains? If there were no mountains or changes in elevation, the earth would be a sphere, and come to think of it, it would be covered in water. Not the best way to make an inhabitable planet.

Oh yeah and, EL, I understand where you're coming from with that God resting thing. Everyone has heard this question several times. Simply put: the bible never said God needed to rest, he just did. And I know it's a bit of a thought-terminating cliche but God is infinite and we aren't going to be able to understand everything he does with mortal minds. It could be that he was just symbolically representing the sabbath day. Anyway, I'm pretty sure everything else has been addressed.

you got anything else?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

darthrevan said:

I agree. For one, just because certain angels look like a cross between bird and human doesn't mean that it came from one. Angels were created directly from God. Adam had nipples and a penis because that's how male humans look (duh). Also, a day to God could be thousands of years to us, so that would be enough time for mountains to form. Jesus is humanities savior (that is an obvious one). He died to show how much God loves us.

well that and who says erosion's the only thing that makes mountains? If there were no mountains or changes in elevation, the earth would be a sphere, and come to think of it, it would be covered in water. Not the best way to make an inhabitable planet.

Oh yeah and, EL, I understand where you're coming from with that God resting thing. Everyone has heard this question several times. Simply put: the bible never said God needed to rest, he just did. And I know it's a bit of a thought-terminating cliche but God is infinite and we aren't going to be able to understand everything he does with mortal minds. It could be that he was just symbolically representing the sabbath day. Anyway, I'm pretty sure everything else has been addressed.

you got anything else?

I feel that this has no point, it's not like these minor things are preventing him from believing in God, he doesn't want to because he doesn't, he's just using these as ammo .

It's not like "If you clear these up for me, I'll believe in God." I rest when I finish my work, even if I'm not tired.

[Psyquis52]

Agreed. There really isn't any point.

Pearls before swine and all that jazz. Not that it really matters to me, because I like EL. Whether or not he believes in God has nothing to do with that. I just like him.

Of course if he calls me stupid again that might have an effect on my disposition towards him. #nunchucks#

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

psyquis52 said:

Agreed. There really isn't any point.

Pearls before swine and all that jazz. Not that it really matters to me, because I like EL. Whether or not he believes in God has nothing to do with that. I just like him.

Of course if he calls me stupid again that might have an effect on my disposition towards him. #nunchucks#

I like him to, though I would like to conduct this discussion as friendly and productive as possible. No need to insult on either side. We're better than that.

[EsteemedLeader©]

Yeah, sorry guys, it did kinda flare up a bit.

But, it's just like... you know how you look at Scientology, and you're just like "How could these people possibly believe this garbage?"? Well that's the same thing I think when I see... well, any religion pretty much.

I just don't understand it. Like, at all. It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

[Dja Majista]

eh I'm sorry too.

well, then personally, what's the most difficult thing to accept about believing in a religion for you? like, is it believing in a God that you can't see?

Look I know it may seem like a real easy thing to fake. it's difficult to disprove the existence of a God that is all powerful, all knowing, and all present, and is not directly percievable by any human senses. In fact it seems like an ideal concept of a God to fool people. how could you prove that he doesn't exist? Well if the bible was written just to fool people, I would think they would try to be vague on certain topics, but in fact, they're pretty straightforward about God's nature. The bible says a number of things that would, at first glance, appear as contradictions. You would think that the bible would avoid making statements that would cause the reader to question God (or his existence altogether), but it doesn't. It says things like "God is a jealous God," he is three and one (note: not three in one), Jesus was tempted by Satan, the list goes on.
My point is, this whole thing couldn't have possibly been made up, it's just too intricate.

And as for evidence of his existence, I could throw out tons for you to see, and if you really want me to I will. (if you really think evidence is all that it would take)

but in the end you have to understand it is a faith decision. even the isrealites doubted, and they witnessed him practically on a daily basis. It's a weakness we have as humans, we have difficulty believing things based off past evidence. we want it right now, in the present. For some reason we value very recent or present evidence higher than distant past evidence.
Evidence, though powerful, just doesn't cut it for us humans. without faith, evidence means nothing.

So that's my two cents. don't know if it speaks volumes to you or not, but that's just what I've learned from experience.

[Psyquis52]

esteemedleader said:

Yeah, sorry guys, it did kinda flare up a bit.

But, it's just like... you know how you look at Scientology, and you're just like "How could these people possibly believe this garbage?"? Well that's the same thing I think when I see... well, any religion pretty much.

I just don't understand it. Like, at all. It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

No need to apologize. We all got a little heated and stupid at times.

As long as we're all willing to admit that we're pigheaded and borish then I think we'll be just fine.


Well,....I'm pigheaded and borish.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

psyquis52 said:

esteemedleader said:

Yeah, sorry guys, it did kinda flare up a bit.

But, it's just like... you know how you look at Scientology, and you're just like "How could these people possibly believe this garbage?"? Well that's the same thing I think when I see... well, any religion pretty much.

I just don't understand it. Like, at all. It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

No need to apologize. We all got a little heated and stupid at times.

As long as we're all willing to admit that we're pigheaded and borish then I think we'll be just fine.


Well,....I'm pigheaded and borish.

It was still good that he wanted to change the direction of this... is your family Atheist as well EL?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

eh I'm sorry too.

well, then personally, what's the most difficult thing to accept about believing in a religion for you? like, is it believing in a God that you can't see?

Look I know it may seem like a real easy thing to fake. it's difficult to disprove the existence of a God that is all powerful, all knowing, and all present, and is not directly percievable by any human senses. In fact it seems like an ideal concept of a God to fool people. how could you prove that he doesn't exist? Well if the bible was written just to fool people, I would think they would try to be vague on certain topics, but in fact, they're pretty straightforward about God's nature. The bible says a number of things that would, at first glance, appear as contradictions. You would think that the bible would avoid making statements that would cause the reader to question God (or his existence altogether), but it doesn't. It says things like "God is a jealous God," he is three and one (note: not three in one), Jesus was tempted by Satan, the list goes on.
My point is, this whole thing couldn't have possibly been made up, it's just too intricate.

And as for evidence of his existence, I could throw out tons for you to see, and if you really want me to I will. (if you really think evidence is all that it would take)

but in the end you have to understand it is a faith decision. even the isrealites doubted, and they witnessed him practically on a daily basis. It's a weakness we have as humans, we have difficulty believing things based off past evidence. we want it right now, in the present. For some reason we value very recent or present evidence higher than distant past evidence.
Evidence, though powerful, just doesn't cut it for us humans. without faith, evidence means nothing.

So that's my two cents. don't know if it speaks volumes to you or not, but that's just what I've learned from experience.

We just like a reminder rather frequently, it's how we are. If our wife or mom or something told us they loved us once, and never did again, you might feel like they love you deep down, but you might start to question it. Or ask why they don't say it. You want a person to make you feel special and the other way around often. Which is why we want to feel like God is there often.

[EsteemedLeader©]

My point is, this whole thing couldn't have possibly been made up, it's just too intricate.

"Dune" was really intricate, and it was made up.

And as for evidence of his existence, I could throw out tons for you to see, and if you really want me to I will.

I would like to see evidence, but mostly to see what it is that causes people to be religious. I don't understand that.

is your family Atheist as well EL?

Yeah, my immediate family is.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

esteemedleader said:

My point is, this whole thing couldn't have possibly been made up, it's just too intricate.




I would like to see evidence, but mostly to see what it is that causes people to be religious. I don't understand that.

That's simple (but can be difficult depending on the person)... faith. If you have it you'll ultimately end up believing, if you don't, no amount of "evidence" will ever get you to see. The whole point is you believe without seeing it all. And like I said before there's nothing wrong with doubt and researching, but ultimately you will need faith.

[Dja Majista]

"Dune" was really intricate, and it was made up.

The bible is intricate in the sense that everything matches up. not only within itself but with today's knowledge as well. It does not contradict science at all to this day. Dune we know didn't happen, because it contradicts science. The bible does not contradict science even though it was composed centuries ago.

But let me ask you, how do you think the bible was put together?

I would like to see evidence, but mostly to see what it is that causes people to be religious. I don't understand that.

you mean religous as in believe in a god (as in any god)?

[EsteemedLeader©]

The bible does not contradict science

It says that fire falls from the sky on sinners.

But let me ask you, how do you think the bible was put together?

By some overzealous dudes.

you mean religous as in believe in a god (as in any god)?

The ones that worship invisible sky men.

faith

Why do I keep seeing this word? What the Hell is this word for?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

esteemedleader said:

faith

Why do I keep seeing this word? What the Hell is this word for?

Because it's an important word. Do you know what it means?

[Dja Majista]

It says that fire falls from the sky on sinners.

and even if there is an ominpotent God stuff like this can't happen?

By some overzealous dudes.

no, it wasn't collaborated by a group of people. the bible consists of many different books canonized at different times; nobody made it in one sitting either. The original texts were handwritten manuscripts.

monks and scribes copied these manuscripts in a scriptorium...

www.scborromeo.org/truth/b3.htm
In each monastery there was usually one large room, called a Scriptorium, or a few smaller rooms, set aside especially for the copying of the Bible. These rooms were built so that they would have all the best possible natural light, thus enabling the monks to work at the task for as many daylight hours as possible. The monks worked in privacy, since copying was such an intense task. Usually, only the monk (scribe) and the superior could enter the scriptorium. Sometimes a group of monks would sit, patiently writing down the text of the Bible as it was read to them by another monk. In this way, several copies would be made at the same time. Lamps, or candles, were seldom used because of the danger of fire. The rooms were not heated so it made the work very difficult in cold weather. When a monk had finished copying one page, he gave it to another monk to check for accuracy. The latter gave it to another monk for decoration, if that were the plan.

now this is my own knowledge. but if you really want me to show you references I'd be happy to:
It was a professional task. the guidelines for writing were incredibly strict. Extremely minor inconsistencies (such as not spacing characters the right length, or stray marks) resulted in the whole document getting tossed, and they would have to start over.
On top of that, even if these scibes were given an order by the king, they had the right to ignore him and continue their work.
Copying manuscripts was a very serious task.

The ones that worship invisible sky men.

are you more conerned as to the how people believe or the why?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Wait are you saying that fire falling from the sky is natural? I'm trying to understand where you are coming from.

[darthrevan]

admin said:

Wait are you saying that fire falling from the sky is natural? I'm trying to understand where you are coming from.

When it says fire falling from the sky in the Bible, it could just be something like meteors. People back then wouldn't understand that stuff, so they probably just wrote it in a way people hundreds of years ago would understand. So I say it is natural if if I guessed correctly.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

darthrevan said:

admin said:

Wait are you saying that fire falling from the sky is natural? I'm trying to understand where you are coming from.

When it says fire falling from the sky in the Bible, it could just be something like meteors. People back then wouldn't understand that stuff, so they probably just wrote it in a way people hundreds of years ago would understand. So I say it is natural if if I guessed correctly.

Yea, kinda how they said many things were what they weren't. But a person could use this argument to their advantage by saying that people believed in God because they didn't have the knowledge they do today, so they blamed it on supernatural beings.

I know what you mean, I was just saying that.

[warmunger]

admin said:

warmunger said:

Yeah, but most science is based from the belief that there is no God. If there is does that mean every thing the world has learned and made from the contributions of a none God science be wrong?

Well it's more geared towards humans learning as much as they can about their own world and conquering it. Which is what we're supposed to do, rule our world. But some make science the end all and be all, which isn't true. It's as limited as we are.

Conquering the world, eh? Would conquering the world be the same as owning it? Becuase i believe in a old Native American belief: No body can take or own any part of the worl be cause it is not ours, we must share it or use it with out claiming it. It seems that the general science does not share in this belief. Is science over all wrong, some times I find my self on either side of this decision.

[warmunger]

Sorry for the double post but what about the Bible Code? The clues left in it connect perfectly to the events of today, some say it si coinsidence but I believe it is something more.

[Dja Majista]

warmunger said:

admin said:

Well it's more geared towards humans learning as much as they can about their own world and conquering it. Which is what we're supposed to do, rule our world. But some make science the end all and be all, which isn't true. It's as limited as we are.

Conquering the world, eh? Would conquering the world be the same as owning it? Becuase i believe in a old Native American belief: No body can take or own any part of the worl be cause it is not ours, we must share it or use it with out claiming it. It seems that the general science does not share in this belief. Is science over all wrong, some times I find my self on either side of this decision.

I would go so far to say that people have dominion over the world by the laws of nature.
We're the most powerful race in the world. And because of that, we naturally have dominion over it and all other life, and we have a right to knowledge as well. But with that, comes a responsibility not necessarily to the earth but to ourselves. Our fate is linked to the earth's, so out of pure self interest we have a responsibility to protect it.
So a planet having such a supreme race on it isn't really that bad.

But I don't understand your reasoning for science to be opposed to that.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

admin said:

Well it's more geared towards humans learning as much as they can about their own world and conquering it. Which is what we're supposed to do, rule our world. But some make science the end all and be all, which isn't true. It's as limited as we are.

Conquering the world, eh? Would conquering the world be the same as owning it? Becuase i believe in a old Native American belief: No body can take or own any part of the worl be cause it is not ours, we must share it or use it with out claiming it. It seems that the general science does not share in this belief. Is science over all wrong, some times I find my self on either side of this decision.

I mean as in our responsibility to maintain and be in control of the planet... what else would do it?

[warmunger]

Unfortunately, in my eyes only the wealthy and the higher ups have the power to save or protect our planet. Most of these people are corrupt and power hungry. If you ask me, for us to be so superior our world sure is heading in a downwards spiral. The power of the common human has been taken away and given to those who live in the shadows and in the very tops of sky scrappers. Maybe the animals are really the most powerful, they have us so caught up in the maze of life (that they created) that we are blind to the fact that they control our every move.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

Unfortunately, in my eyes only the wealthy and the higher ups have the power to save or protect our planet. Most of these people are corrupt and power hungry. If you ask me, for us to be so superior our world sure is heading in a downwards spiral. The power of the common human has been taken away and given to those who live in the shadows and in the very tops of sky scrappers. Maybe the animals are really the most powerful, they have us so caught up in the maze of life (that they created) that we are blind to the fact that they control our every move.

Hmm, I'm not sure that the world has gotten significantly worse, back in older times, people were murdered in the street. I think we all play a part, but the richest have more influence in those things that affect the human aspect and spiral of things. Numbers always matter, and when there are no people left, money has no value. It can never have the value over life.

[warmunger]

I see...But back in the day people were killed in large numbers but now...people are killed in LARGER numbers. The wars of the 20th and 21st century I think are far worst, IMO. I think the world is in even more danger than it appears, people now a days just know how to REALLY cover things up. The same groups and orginizations that control the world back then, WAY back then, are the same groups and orginizations that control the world to day.