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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 25, 2013 21:50:53 GMT -5
Only a matter of time before our bodies become useless? Never. We're far more advanced than we used to be and we still do. Your argument is based on maybe and not theory. I don't really understand what you're arguing because you were the one who brought up physical strength, not me. The fittest are the richest, most attractive, and smartest few of any population. It's a combination of the above. It's true, a machine body is faster, stronger, and more powerful than any non-synthetic organism. We don't have to imagine, we can look around. Many creatures don't have our manual dexterity and therefore can't do as much. If you gave a human the intelligence of an animal. It would be just as incapable. Our power is all up there. Go to a rich area. You'll see far better looking people. A woman will choose a George Clooney over a Howard Stern though both can get laid. Women want money, but they don't care where it comes from. They'll gladly marry a rich guy and reproduce with a hot guy anyways. Getting laid isn't hard for either a hot guy or a rich guy, but a rich hot guy gets them all It also doesn't change the fact that good genes also ensure a higher chance of reproduction. Attractive men and women are more likely to pass on their genes and mate with others that are attractive and/or rich. Water seeks its own level. Game is just nonsense and is used by men who lack money and looks to get women. A man who is attractive and rich doesn't need to bother. It seems to work, but I'll take your word on it that game doesn't work. We have robots and nukes now, but we still rely on soldiers. Robotics isn't at the level that we need it to be. It's still in it's infancy. No men dominate the planet for several reasons. Yes one reason is mental ability, but it's also the ability to stand on two legs, sharp eyesight, the ability to divide tasks, strong social skills, opposable thumbs and the ability to reproduce year round. It wasn't just mental ability, if you never had the physical ability to survive you would have never developed the skills. Intelligence is a very broad term and really encompasses a myriad of skills and abilities. Most people we have now are really just brainwashed fools. Well, I mean't general intelligence not just I.Q. but E.Q. Our ability to craft tools to slaughter animals is unparalleled. The best hunters had the best tools and tactics. Division of labor is a social strategy for efficiency. It's all mental. One man can outsmart many, but he wouldn't stand a chance against a bunch of men working together anyways A well prepared intelligent man vs the bozo brigade is a no contest in favor of the former. and he still needs labor and muscle power to create those tools. Very little and man doesn't have much muscle power. We went over this already. He's had to compensate for his strength with numbers, domesticated animals and most importantly tools. The mind falls apart as well as the body. The surgeon needs good hands as well as a sharp mind. So does a mechanic, a machine operator, or just about all of the jobs that make the world go round. But, surgery has nothing to do with "strength" it requires a steady hand for now. Most likely in the future robots will replace surgeons and laser surgery will be common. Self replicating machines with automatic repair will replace any cumbersome engineer. Many things make a person the fittest. Great physique, great looks, great mind, great ambition, great skill, great leadership. It's not just one thing over the other. You need those good genes to create good offspring. As usual the stupid losers do all of the reproducing and have a bunch of crappy spawn they can't take care of. The best mate with the best and have fewer children because that's all that's necessary. The unfit are holding back the fit. There's a reason there's a correlation between attractiveness, success, and physical shape. It's because these are the things humans look for when they reproduce. Women still want tall, well built men and not short ugly men, because it's hard wired. Men want attractive women and not fat ugly women unless they're poor and ugly and can't do any better. No matter how many systems they put into place and the amount of brainwashing they do it will always be survival of the fittest. It's like this fact bothers people. It's usually the "intellectual" type betas I see who try to argue that only brains matter and why don't they have more wealth and why won't women date them etc. I had this exact same argument at MGTOW before with why men like that can't get ahead and why some people end up better off. It's due to the fittest. In a natural society only the fittest would be doing the majority of the reproducing. We reward losers to reproduce in this society by heavily penalizing the fittest. Which is a shame. MGTOW must be pretty silly if they don't think brainy guys get ahead. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mike Zuckerberg, etc. Those guys are billionaires or were in Jobs case. Do they honestly believe those guys don't get poon? Most movers and shakers in history had very high I.Q. Benjamin Franklin for example was a scientist and a genius. But, was also a womanizer. Those people who arguing on mgtow aren't real intellectuals imo just like marxist professors aren't intellectuals. |
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 26, 2013 3:36:43 GMT -5
I don't mind having debates and all of that, but you have to stop skipping over certain points I make. These discussions grow fast and I'm not a big fan of having to repeat myself as I feel it becomes unproductive. I know you're getting into the debate, I'm just saying let's it on track for a better discussion.  It's true, a machine body is faster, stronger, and more powerful than any non-synthetic organism. Yes, but that machine still needs maintenance, work, and some human to maintain it. Bro, I my company works around machines. You get work done faster but someone has to still use and maintain those machines. You ignored my example before, but a chainsaw is faster than a handsaw but you are still going to put more work on your body using that machine. I also build computers for a hobby, that still takes sharp hands and patience to do as well. If you want to argue about some future utopia where everything is done by machines, that may be somewhat possible; though you'd still need man's labor. You aren't really aware of how much work is still done by hand, the reason you don't see it much here is because most of it is being done somewhere else so we can live our phony lifestyle. Based on your argument as well a society of women would live as well as a society of men as long as they had machines. It's not true. If you gave a human the intelligence of an animal. It would be just as incapable. Our power is all up there. A human with the intelligence of some animals wouldn't do as bad, if you gave human intelligence to a snake it wouldn't be building much of anything. It seems to work, but I'll take your word on it that game doesn't work. Again I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying it's for people who lack money or looks to acquire women. Money making is still about good genes because that person needs ambition and often much charisma. The honest truth is most of society's advancements weren't done by the average person, most were along for the ride. You only had a few men doing most of it. You did have others help move it along by doing some basic things but that's about it. It's also not just based on raw intellectual ability, many successful men just had the risk taking mentality and the vision to do things. Most so called intellectuals haven't done a damned thing their whole lives lol. They're just posers. Robotics isn't at the level that we need it to be. It's still in it's infancy. This hasn't happened yet so we're going to theory I'd rather not get into theory now because we could argue tons of things. Well, I mean't general intelligence not just I.Q. but E.Q. Our ability to craft tools to slaughter animals is unparalleled. The best hunters had the best tools and tactics. Division of labor is a social strategy for efficiency. It's all mental. Tools and passing down knowledge of other things. Other creatures have a division of labor but we still had to be strong and sharp to survive. A well prepared intelligent man vs the bozo brigade is a no contest in favor of the former. A incredibly strong man vs a bunch of decrepit weaklings is no contest either. If you put one man in either scenario over many his chances decrease. Very little and man doesn't have much muscle power. We went over this already. He's had to compensate for his strength with numbers, domesticated animals and most importantly tools. Other creatures have higher numbers and those other things as well in many instances. A man still needed hands to create those tools and strength to put them together. A mind with a worthless body is worthless, there was no advanced machinery in those times. Honestly most of history was pretty much the same until the industrial revolution, you had to be tougher to survive and mentally sharp. But, surgery has nothing to do with "strength" it requires a steady hand for now. Most likely in the future robots will replace surgeons and laser surgery will be common. Self replicating machines with automatic repair will replace any cumbersome engineer. You keep framing the argument around simply physical strength. My argument was overall fitness, never just strength. A strong muscle is a fast and controlled muscle, a person skilled with their hands still have strong fine muscle control and has to build this muscle whether he is a surgeon, playing an instrument, or using a controller (lol). You keep looking at this around muscular lifting power when strength is much more than that. MGTOW must be pretty silly if they don't think brainy guys get ahead. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mike Zuckerberg, etc. Those guys are billionaires or were in Jobs case. Do they honestly believe those guys don't get poon? Most movers and shakers in history had very high I.Q. Benjamin Franklin for example was a scientist and a genius. But, was also a womanizer. Those people who arguing on mgtow aren't real intellectuals imo just like marxist professors aren't intellectuals. Their argument was more to do about monogamy and how they wanted women they couldn't have and they wanted to pass laws making it so they had women they wouldn't get. I said it should be survival of the fittest and it would do well for some gene cleaning and they were upset until I drove the point home. Ben Franklin wasn't bad looking in his youngyears if I wasn't mistaken. Most of those billionaires you mentioned are actually betas, just rich. Obama is a beta with a lot of power too for that matter. Again you definitely need intelligence to have great success, but you need something else. There are many poor loser smart people (usually socialists and Keysnians). You also have to have the risk taking mindset, charisma, and the ability to get the shit done and strike when the iron is hot. That's why many smart losers don't get why they're broke. I have many friends who are very book smart, but also very lazy and have no ambition, which is why they don't have anything. They're not smarter than me granted, but I also had more ambition and took more risks. Many entrepreneurs are sharp or street smart and just have the vision and the skill to get things done. After all you have to teach these skills to other people to multiply your results. But genetically fit isn't just intelligence and has never been based on it. There is a strong correlation between looks, intelligence, physical health, and success for a reason. Man would have never lasted if they constantly got sick and died, or were crippled and deformed. You need the best genes to move forth and that isn't simply mental skill. It's a combination. There are men who are smart, rich, attractive, athletic, charismatic, etc. Those men are fitter than a man just having one of those traits. It's a fact. My point is why have one when you can have all, unless you really can't do any better. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 26, 2013 21:59:59 GMT -5
I don't mind having debates and all of that, but you have to stop skipping over certain points I make. These discussions grow fast and I'm not a big fan of having to repeat myself as I feel it becomes unproductive. I know you're getting into the debate, I'm just saying let's it on track for a better discussion. Sorry about that. I only comment on things that I really wanted to elaborate on. Since we agree on somethings, I tend to leave them out. I do answer rebuttals, though. Yes, but that machine still needs maintenance, work, and some human to maintain it. Bro, I my company works around machines. You get work done faster but someone has to still use and maintain those machines. You ignored my example before, but a chainsaw is faster than a handsaw but you are still going to put more work on your body using that machine. I also build computers for a hobby, that still takes sharp hands and patience to do as well. I didn't ignore it, I commented on it when I referenced miniaturization making machines smaller but more powerful. Chains saws will follow the same trend all machines do: Become more power over time and little to no man power involved. That was my response. If you want to argue about some future utopia where everything is done by machines, that may be somewhat possible; though you'd still need man's labor. Far less manual labour would be required and with A.I. it might be less. You aren't really aware of how much work is still done by hand, the reason you don't see it much here is because most of it is being done somewhere else so we can live our phony lifestyle. Based on your argument as well a society of women would live as well as a society of men as long as they had machines. It's not true. Huh? Why is it not true? Machines never get tired, never strike, and can work 24 hours a day without rest. The only thing they need for now is fuel and repairs. Self repairing machines are just around the corner. I don't see why we would need manual labour in the light of all this. A human with the intelligence of some animals wouldn't do as bad, if you gave human intelligence to a snake it wouldn't be building much of anything. I obviously disagree. A man with the brain of a wild animal could do very little with opposable thumbs. Again I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying it's for people who lack money or looks to acquire women. Money making is still about good genes because that person needs ambition and often much charisma. The honest truth is most of society's advancements weren't done by the average person, most were along for the ride. You only had a few men doing most of it. You did have others help move it along by doing some basic things but that's about it. Well, I agree with you on that. Humans are genetically superior to other life-forms. So, it's not impossible for some humans to be genetically superior to other humans. It's also not just based on raw intellectual ability, many successful men just had the risk taking mentality and the vision to do things. Most so called intellectuals haven't done a damned thing their whole lives lol. They're just posers. When I say intellect I mean abstract things: Attitude, intelligence, beliefs, confidence/ Things that you can't see, but have a very real effect. But, you're right. Most "intellectuals" are poseurs. Tools and passing down knowledge of other things. Other creatures have a division of labor but we still had to be strong and sharp to survive. Our division of labour is better, though. So are our tools. A incredibly strong man vs a bunch of decrepit weaklings is no contest either. If you put one man in either scenario over many his chances decrease. If those decript weaklings are quick witted and can prepare then my money would be on them. Other creatures have higher numbers and those other things as well in many instances. A man still needed hands to create those tools and strength to put them together. But, were better organized and we can build things without our hands like I said before. A mind with a worthless body is worthless, there was no advanced machinery in those times. Honestly most of history was pretty much the same until the industrial revolution, you had to be tougher to survive and mentally sharp. Not, really. Warfare before the wheel was different than warfare without it. Warfare before bronze was different than warfare without it. War before stirrups, sailing before the compass, or latine sail or ptolemy star charts, etc. There were many slight difference before the industrial revolution. You keep framing the argument around simply physical strength. My argument was overall fitness, never just strength. A strong muscle is a fast and controlled muscle, a person skilled with their hands still have strong fine muscle control and has to build this muscle whether he is a surgeon, playing an instrument, or using a controller (lol). You keep looking at this around muscular lifting power when strength is much more than that. Okay, fair enough. I'll concede that point then. Their argument was more to do about monogamy and how they wanted women they couldn't have and they wanted to pass laws making it so they had women they wouldn't get. I said it should be survival of the fittest and it would do well for some gene cleaning and they were upset until I drove the point home. Yes, this is true. Monogamy is a social control mechanism to benefit betas. Female hyper-gamy means that most women are attracted to a few men and vice versa for men.  In a polygamous society, a few capable alphas monopolizes all the females. Monogamy puts a cap on the amount of females an alpha male can monopolize. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 26, 2013 22:06:58 GMT -5
I wanted to focus on this post because it was interesting. This sounds alot like Nietzsches ubermensch and untermensch dichotomy. I'm gonna make a thread about this. So. that's what you mean by strength. I thought you mean't muscles  You mean genetics, that is a higher man. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 27, 2013 4:44:28 GMT -5
Well let's condense this down shall we?
I agree with you wholeheartedly about machines being better than people. Employers agree. No complaining, work nonstop, no getting sued because you were fired for being black, or gay, or some other nonsense.
Now there is another perspective on that. People will argue "If machines are smart enough to do everything? Why will they serve us?"
And yes, when I said intelligence I mean simply skills. I hate the word in a way because due to modern academia and brainwashing, people tend to think that science and math are the only types of "intelligence".
Great physical control in and of itself is a type of "intelligence" or skill.
And yep that's what monogamy is for, though legit monopolies aren't evil, ones by force are. People who get the most "customers" are the ones who provide the best deal in a free society.
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 27, 2013 16:47:30 GMT -5
Wow, we pretty much agree then. . .Sorry for long winded responses then.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 27, 2013 17:53:46 GMT -5
Nah, it's all good. Discussion is discussion. Maybe I said it kind of harsh like I usually do.
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 27, 2013 18:02:25 GMT -5
Maybe I said it kind of harsh like I usually do. Not at all. You articulated your position well. |
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 27, 2013 18:05:52 GMT -5
Maybe I said it kind of harsh like I usually do. Not at all. You articulated your position well. I learned from the best (i.e you). |
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 27, 2013 18:09:28 GMT -5
Not at all. You articulated your position well. I learned from the best (i.e you).[/quote] Aw shucks |
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 27, 2013 18:19:33 GMT -5
Not at all. You articulated your position well. I learned from the best (i.e you). Aw shucks [/quote]Don't be bashful. You were the terror of KMC for quite a while back then. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 27, 2013 18:31:21 GMT -5
I use to travel to different forums debating as much people as I can. I've mellowed out since then, though.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 27, 2013 18:37:33 GMT -5
I use to travel to different forums debating as much people as I can. I've mellowed out since then, though. Yea it gets exhausting dealing with morons. I could tell you were getting tired of arguing with me so I know. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 27, 2013 18:42:43 GMT -5
I just dislike long discussions, Too much energy. But, I don't think we were arguing per say. I just wanted to see your worldview, I even made a thread about it.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 27, 2013 18:46:55 GMT -5
I just dislike long discussions, Too much energy. But, I don't think we were arguing per say. I just wanted to see your worldview, I even made a thread about it. Yea, they get lengthy trying to quote over and over especially when it's a moron that you have to keep going back and forth and insulting and other nonsense. Best to keep them on topic. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 27, 2013 18:58:55 GMT -5
I just avoid them altogether. Outside of here, I dislike socializing on the internet.
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 27, 2013 19:14:55 GMT -5
I just avoid them altogether. Outside of here, I dislike socializing on the internet. Yea it's a waste of time, look at what those morons were doing on Peter Schiff's page. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 27, 2013 19:36:35 GMT -5
People are stupid, nothing new. The world is controlled by winners. Less than 1% of humanity has contributed to 99% of all the developments and have 99% of all the power.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 28, 2013 5:07:26 GMT -5
Pretty much. Most people don't contribute or do much of anything but just barely get by and live off of the glory of someone else. Even in marxist societies where politicians try to take that power by force.
Not only that, but the vast majority of people aren't productive at all; they consume more than they produce. Especially in this society.
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 30, 2013 23:04:25 GMT -5
Well, back to the topic at hand. I used to value peoples approval and thought that was more important than "things". But, these days. All I need is a nice cozy room, Some video games or movies, an entertainment center and I'm good. I honestly prefer things over people. I used to worry, but now I accept it.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 30, 2013 23:39:29 GMT -5
Well, back to the topic at hand. I used to value peoples approval and thought that was more important than "things". But, these days. All I need is a nice cozy room, Some video games or movies, an entertainment center and I'm good. I honestly prefer things over people. I used to worry, but now I accept it. Don't feel bad. That's just society and losers trying to make you feel bad and instill you with "their" values. I like things more too. They don't complain. They don't lie. They don't steal. They don't beg. They don't impose. They don't expect a free ride. They don't blame others for their own failures. They don't want something for nothing. And on and on. That's why things are better. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Dec 30, 2013 23:50:34 GMT -5
Don't feel bad. That's just society and losers trying to make you feel bad and instill you with "their" values. I like things more too. They don't complain. They don't lie. They don't steal. They don't beg. They don't impose. They don't expect a free ride. They don't blame others for their own failures. They don't want something for nothing. And on and on. That's why things are better. heh Well, when I say things I also mean that I've lost faith in relationships outside of business/trade. [few rare exceptions]. Like if someone isn't offering something valuable, then I tend to feel like they should F*ck off. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 31, 2013 0:38:54 GMT -5
Don't feel bad. That's just society and losers trying to make you feel bad and instill you with "their" values. I like things more too. They don't complain. They don't lie. They don't steal. They don't beg. They don't impose. They don't expect a free ride. They don't blame others for their own failures. They don't want something for nothing. And on and on. That's why things are better. heh Well, when I say things I also mean that I've lost faith in relationships outside of business/trade. [few rare exceptions]. Like if someone isn't offering something valuable, then I tend to feel like they should F*ck off. Everything in life should be evaluated based on how it affects your life. If a person is a negative part, they're best removed. |
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You mean genetics, that is a higher man.