Exploration in games

[gurpwnder]

I have a question for my fellow gamers.

How should we reward exploration in video games?

Let me explain myself. Suppose we have two players. A veteran gamer, and a newcomer. If a game tells you to go from point A to point B, the newcomer is likely to do just that, while the veteran gamer would likely be more curious and explore the area, finding secrets, etc.

What is the veteran gamer's reward for exploration? Powerups and rewards. THAT'S the problem I have. The game is designed so that the newcomer player can beat the game, but the secret powerups and rewards are being given to a player that is already good at video games. So the good players have powerups that help them out even more, but the newcomer player doesn't have nearly that kind of arsenal.  

Do you see where I'm coming from?

If I'm wrong, or am being an idiot here, please call me out, otherwise we can discuss this further.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 21:20:17 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

I have a question for my fellow gamers.

How should we reward exploration in video games?

Let me explain myself. Suppose we have two players. A veteran gamer, and a newcomer. If a game tells you to go from point A to point B, the newcomer is likely to do just that, while the veteran gamer would likely be more curious and explore the area, finding secrets, etc.

What is the veteran gamer's reward for exploration? Powerups and rewards. THAT'S the problem I have. The game is designed so that the newcomer player can beat the game, but the secret powerups and rewards are being given to a player that is already good at video games. So the good players have powerups that help them out even more, but the newcomer player doesn't have nearly that kind of arsenal.  

Do you see where I'm coming from?

If I'm wrong, or am being an idiot here, please call me out, otherwise we can discuss this further.

I always liked the idea of being rewarded for putting in the work. I don't think you have to be great at a game to look around. If a typical casual player just wants to rush through a game and return it to gamestop, then they will miss the things that others dedicated time to finding. Single player games even more so because you aren't competing against each other in a match anyways so it's not a problem.

[gurpwnder]

Yeah, the new players won't get same entertainment as a more interested gamer, but then would the game not be ridiculously easy for the veteran player if the casual gamer is able to finish it anyways?

Let me use Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga as a small example. It's an RPG, and you can explore around the overworld to find goodies. Many rewards are health restoration items and 1ups. Would the casual player not need those things much more than a veteran player?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 21:35:04 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Yeah, the new players won't get same entertainment as a more interested gamer, but then would the game not be ridiculously easy for the veteran player if the casual gamer is able to finish it anyways?

Let me use Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga as a small example. It's an RPG, and you can explore around the overworld to find goodies. Many rewards are health restoration items and 1ups. Would the casual player not need those things much more than a veteran player?

That's where difficulty settings and new game plus style games come in as long as it doesn't have fake diffculty.

Nothing keeps a casual player from exploring. Rewarding people for doing it is the best way to do that. Otherwise you just encourage them to rush. I play Baldur's gate and love it. The best stuff was always off the beaten path in a separate mission. Nowadays with gamefaqs and other sites around there's no reason not to take the time to find stuff when it's basically pointed out to you.

[gurpwnder]

Yeah, the internet is great because information is readily accessible, but much of the mystery of gaming is gone because of how easy it is to just google it. Double edged sword right there. That may play a part as to why games are getting more linear, since the mysteries that developers could spend time worknig on are no longer mysterious. I could see a missle expansion in a Metroid game and have NO idea how to get it. I could power bomb, missle EVERY tile, morph ball bomb everywhere I can and get nothing. Then I could just tgo to a website and read "Shinespark, crouch, then shinespark jump upwards and there you go. Bam. Mystery ruined.

Difficulty switches definitely help, but the problem I have is that the good players become better, while the average player stays the same. Makes for a skewed balance.

[gurpwnder]

Perhaps achievements could do it. Give a player a 'you did it!' as your reward, and not have them become much stronger than an average player.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 21:47:56 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Yeah, the internet is great because information is readily accessible, but much of the mystery of gaming is gone because of how easy it is to just google it. Double edged sword right there. That may play a part as to why games are getting more linear, since the mysteries that developers could spend time worknig on are no longer mysterious. I could see a missle expansion in a Metroid game and have NO idea how to get it. I could power bomb, missle EVERY tile, morph ball bomb everywhere I can and get nothing. Then I could just tgo to a website and read "Shinespark, crouch, then shinespark jump upwards and there you go. Bam. Mystery ruined.

Difficulty switches definitely help, but the problem I have is that the good players become better, while the average player stays the same. Makes for a skewed balance.

I'm the kind of person who likes to find out everything myself. I like to read different perspectives on games more than anything, but if people want to play a single player game and just use guides that's on them.

It depends on the design, some secrets are really just vague and badly done. I mean in Duke Nukem I have played that game for almost 2 decades and I still find neat stuff even with guides. The game just rewarded you with easter eggs, power ups, or shortcuts by takent he least traveled path.

I think difficulty settings are fine. It's a single player game, if a casual wants an easier experience without getting too frustrated, he can play easy. For a person like me who loves a challenge I just start on hard and work that way. There's no "matchups" like in a versus game so there isn't an issue IMO.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 21:48:47 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Perhaps achievements could do it. Give a player a 'you did it!' as your reward, and not have them become much stronger than an average player.

Casual players love achievements enough already. I never understood the obsession with those, but it motivates them.

I'd rather be motivated by unlocking stuff myself. I mean it's no different than beating a game on hard mode and getting rewarded more. Why wouldn't I want to be rewarded for my work. You don't have to be skilled to take time and explore. Just not lazy.

It's not like they're asking you to do a no death run of Battletoads or anything lol.

[gurpwnder]

Yeah, exploring in video games is awesome, because you're getting more of your money's worth and experiencing more of the game. This idea just popped into my head when I thought of how someone who explores and someone who doesn't will have vastly different experiences.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 22:06:15 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Yeah, exploring in video games is awesome, because you're getting more of your money's worth and experiencing more of the game. This idea just popped into my head when I thought of how someone who explores and someone who doesn't will have vastly different experiences.

Some games are fun to run through and explore. Duke Nukem could be playeed in a fast way, and in a thorough way. Nothing wrong with having both playstyles rewarded either.

[gurpwnder]

I'd like to see rewards for exploration be things like secret areas / bosses that are much more difficult than normal and don't make you any better for completing them. That kind of experience would be its own reward.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

What would the secret areas contain? Usually secret areas contain items.

If you do a secret boss, you'd have to be better to do that, so it would reward a better player even more in terms of skill.

You could make a secret area with great items that require a challenge (which they usually do). Not sure why it's an issue really in a single player game. If people are too lazy to explore then they miss out. Why punish people who explore by not really rewarding them because others are lazy?

[gurpwnder]

I wasn't thinking about punishing gamers who want to explore as much as not allowing them to steamroll through a game with all the extra powerups they collect. It makes post-secret area areas considerably easier in comparison and can take away from the challenge these areas could have originally offered.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Well I don't think they should get anything broken just by exploring. What games are doing this that you find this a problem in? I can't recall exploring through a game and quickly stumbling into broken stuff. Enlighten me.