The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 15:17:13 GMT -5
Don't speak like that lol. I have to say that if it wasn't for Evil Ryu I wouldn't have picked the game up, as I got back into gaming and it seemed "meh". R. Mika coming back encouraged me to pre-order but the dumbing down and censorship don't sit well with me. LMFAO Man SF4 is so vastly superior to SF5 and absolutely is not easy to win at a high level, if it's so easy to win at as you claim, why can't america capture titles versus the Japanese ever. Why are the same strong players always placing highly in tournaments despite 1,000+ casual players entering EVO and not a single one reaching top 8? Because what you're saying isn't true that's why. SF4 has some n00b friendly things sure, but nothing as easy as SF5 combos and SF5 is a mashfest. So you aren't good at SF4 and don't enjoy the comeback ultras and focus, along with option selects, I got you. I do not feel SF4 is better than Alpha 2 or 3, CVS2, or 3rd Strike, but it is MASSIVELY better than the current EZ mode SF5. Top players hate SF5 and even randoms don't enjoy watching SF5 streams and decry it's bland boring lack of hype and excitement. Check any current major SF'er streamer and watch the outpouring of disdain for SF5 in every stream from casuals and tournament players alike. SF5 for most of the current SF Audience is not a fun experience and making things overly easy and too restrictive isn't gonna fly when everyone is use to more. SF5 is a laughable childs game in it's current build and there is no way the game can survive 5+ years of tournament play with jab mashing into super and slow paced target combos into super cancels. Vtrigger isn't exciting or deep, you can MASH Karin out of her rekkas in Vtrigger, SF4 Fei's standard non ex rekkas are vastly superior to Karin's Vtrigger in SF5 and that's an issue. If they kept the jab confirms, 2f links, and removed focus, OS, and Ultras, SF5 would be vastly improved. Forcing dull restrictive play on the FGC in favor of Esports MMO/FPS player type of audience isn't gonna work out over the long term. SF5 is absolutely not a step in the right direction, censorship isn't right, and dumbing down your games mechanics so n00bz can mash out combos and feel good about themselves is pitiful. I don't know any players that refunded their USF4 preorders, but I know several who have on SF5 and see a whole forum on steam with an outpouring of rage at the game and it's gameplay. To the point that steam went in to correct a "bug" in it's refund system for SF5" and made an apology to steam users that couldn't get a refund through the standard process. The backlash is massive, the game is boring, and it needs to change before launch or people will only care about it to win easy money in tournament play year 1 and do other things that actually challenge them with their execution and mind games. Well I want to be fair. Remember when SF4 came out people said it was simple and they hated it and then new tech came along the more the game was played. Much of it was probably bad (unblockables, crouch tech, etc.) but it was still there. Capcom steadily nerfed the damage there too, but they still had a few things to keep people in. SF5 is the new kid on the block so I'll compare the reception to SF4 when it was new. Many people hated SF4 and like SF3 more. Personally I'm into the S2, SFA2/A3, CvS2, 3s, and MvC2 era. Those games weren't perfect and you didn't have balance patches then, but the game was less dumbed down and you didn't have the bs you do now and all of the catering. I'd rather lose at that then win at newer games. SF4's focus got in the way of footsies and Ultras were ass and I hated unblockables, invincible backdashes, and crouch tech. To SF5's credit they removed that stuff, but now instead of making it a high paced, high damage game they instead dumb down zoning, nerf damage, weaken pokes, encourage mashing, and then take away combo options while making V-reversals ass. I'd rather have good V-reversals and worse jab mashing. Throw ranges have been dumbed down. The worst part is they say they're taking feedback, but are they listening to it? Nope, they're too busy censoring a butt slap amongst other things. One thing I hate about all of this meter and why I like VF is that they don't weaken all of the moves to justify some new meter system. Moves in games without all of the custom combo/super stuff were actually powerful. Now everything is weakened to make the super worth using. I hate that. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 15:33:38 GMT -5
LMFAO Man SF4 is so vastly superior to SF5 and absolutely is not easy to win at a high level, if it's so easy to win at as you claim, why can't america capture titles versus the Japanese ever. Why are the same strong players always placing highly in tournaments despite 1,000+ casual players entering EVO and not a single one reaching top 8? Because what you're saying isn't true that's why. SF4 has some n00b friendly things sure, but nothing as easy as SF5 combos and SF5 is a mashfest. So you aren't good at SF4 and don't enjoy the comeback ultras and focus, along with option selects, I got you. I do not feel SF4 is better than Alpha 2 or 3, CVS2, or 3rd Strike, but it is MASSIVELY better than the current EZ mode SF5. Top players hate SF5 and even randoms don't enjoy watching SF5 streams and decry it's bland boring lack of hype and excitement. Check any current major SF'er streamer and watch the outpouring of disdain for SF5 in every stream from casuals and tournament players alike. SF5 for most of the current SF Audience is not a fun experience and making things overly easy and too restrictive isn't gonna fly when everyone is use to more. SF5 is a laughable childs game in it's current build and there is no way the game can survive 5+ years of tournament play with jab mashing into super and slow paced target combos into super cancels. Vtrigger isn't exciting or deep, you can MASH Karin out of her rekkas in Vtrigger, SF4 Fei's standard non ex rekkas are vastly superior to Karin's Vtrigger in SF5 and that's an issue. If they kept the jab confirms, 2f links, and removed focus, OS, and Ultras, SF5 would be vastly improved. Forcing dull restrictive play on the FGC in favor of Esports MMO/FPS player type of audience isn't gonna work out over the long term. SF5 is absolutely not a step in the right direction, censorship isn't right, and dumbing down your games mechanics so n00bz can mash out combos and feel good about themselves is pitiful. I don't know any players that refunded their USF4 preorders, but I know several who have on SF5 and see a whole forum on steam with an outpouring of rage at the game and it's gameplay. To the point that steam went in to correct a "bug" in it's refund system for SF5" and made an apology to steam users that couldn't get a refund through the standard process. The backlash is massive, the game is boring, and it needs to change before launch or people will only care about it to win easy money in tournament play year 1 and do other things that actually challenge them with their execution and mind games. Sf5 is gonna be fundamentally harder then 4. You speak of tournament results but tell my why marvel 3 results are always consistent? That game is obviously a train wreck but the same people will win every tournament. Tournaments results don't show everything about a game. Its only the results of the people playing the game that day. Its clear as day how hard sf5 will be for sf4 players. "you can MASH Karin out of her rekkas in Vtrigger, SF4 Fei's standard non ex rekkas are vastly superior to Karin's Vtrigger in SF5 and that's an issue" Her rekkas are for damage. You're suppose to hit confirm into them and she has the options of resetting them. Why would anyone do them on block?? |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 15:38:12 GMT -5
Do you think it's because of the difference in the neutral game?
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 15:54:30 GMT -5
Here's a nerf for Azik since I know he's been waiting. This is what I read just now. Karin's cr.mk cannot be cancelled anymore. I already saw that coming with the range on it. You'll have to use lights like the rest of us.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 16:02:13 GMT -5
Do you think it's because of the difference in the neutral game? No. Its the removal of bad mechanics that are used to make bad players win. Just look at players like smug. They have no neutral game but do extremely well since they have execution. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 16:07:51 GMT -5
Did you catch the nerf for Karin? Do you think it's because of the difference in the neutral game? No. Its the removal of bad mechanics that are used to make bad players win. Just look at players like smug. They have no neutral game but do extremely well since they have execution. Execution is extremely important but neutral should matter. I'm not for dumbing down one or the other as they both should go together. He'd have to understand *some* neutral to survive. Are you saying he goes completely HAM? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 16:11:28 GMT -5
Here's a nerf for Azik since I know he's been waiting. This is what I read just now. Karin's cr.mk cannot be cancelled anymore. I already saw that coming with the range on it. You'll have to use lights like the rest of us. Jokes on you. stand mk is now cancelable! No I'm joking. That's an actual change!! I honestly thought you guys were only upset about censoring lol Where did you read it? |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 16:17:53 GMT -5
Here's a nerf for Azik since I know he's been waiting. This is what I read just now. Karin's cr.mk cannot be cancelled anymore. I already saw that coming with the range on it. You'll have to use lights like the rest of us. Jokes on you. stand mk is now cancelable! No I'm joking. That's an actual change!! I honestly thought you guys were only upset about censoring lol Where did you read it? There's been a compiled buff and nerf list. And no, I definitely don't like the censoring but I was trying to keep an open mind towards the changes (remember Mika) since the game wasn't out. This is what I mean about losing combo opportunities. She got hit big time, and I figured she'd lose that with her overhead and walk speed and all the other nerfs they're handing out. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 16:28:04 GMT -5
Did you catch the nerf for Karin? No. Its the removal of bad mechanics that are used to make bad players win. Just look at players like smug. They have no neutral game but do extremely well since they have execution. Execution is extremely important but neutral should matter. I'm not for dumbing down one or the other as they both should go together. He'd have to understand *some* neutral to survive. Are you saying he goes completely HAM? He is a very nutty player but I actually think hes a bad example now... I contradicted myself since he can't even win against good players... |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 16:34:58 GMT -5
Did you catch the nerf for Karin? Execution is extremely important but neutral should matter. I'm not for dumbing down one or the other as they both should go together. He'd have to understand *some* neutral to survive. Are you saying he goes completely HAM? He is a very nutty player but I actually think hes a bad example now... I contradicted myself since he can't even win against good players... What about his playstyle did you not like? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 16:47:52 GMT -5
He is a very nutty player but I actually think hes a bad example now... I contradicted myself since he can't even win against good players... What about his playstyle did you not like? He's constantly pressing buttons and jumps in a lot. It seems like almost all the pressure he applies comes from focus attack when playing against good neutral game too. I don't think he's terrible just he has a lot of holes in his play style. I could just be his character choice though. I mean one of the best characters in the game has a bad neutral game |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 16:53:35 GMT -5
What about his playstyle did you not like? He's constantly pressing buttons and jumps in a lot. It seems like almost all the pressure he applies comes from focus attack when playing against good neutral game too. I don't think he's terrible just he has a lot of holes in his play style. I could just be his character choice though. I mean one of the best characters in the game has a bad neutral game Dudley is a counterpoke character. I think his style comes from how Sf4 is played. Focus attack destroys a lot of the neutral elements. Counterhit crumple, lol. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 17:00:52 GMT -5
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 17:33:17 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 17:44:22 GMT -5
Karin:
- Certain attacks juggle the opponent less high which nerfs certain setplay/reset options after.
This doesn't matter. It was a bad mixup from the start so it doesn't actually effect her.
- *c.LK received some type of nerf*
Hmmm it seems like lows are getting worse.
- *c.MK no longer cancelable*
Stand medium punch does the same job but useless change.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 17:45:14 GMT -5
I did say crouch medium kick was too good before since you can confirm off 1 hit.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 17:50:55 GMT -5
You can't do it off of a low range, low hitting poke. It was "too good" compared to how bad the other characters were since she had great frame advantage, fast speed, and good normals. If the characters weren't so nerfed it would have been fine but alas.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 18:13:53 GMT -5
You can't do it off of a low range, low hitting poke. It was "too good" compared to how bad the other characters were since she had great frame advantage, fast speed, and good normals. If the characters weren't so nerfed it would have been fine but alas. I mean as far as hit confirming into the moves. Both are the same. I figured it would change in a way to make it harder to confirm off a single hit and not just removing it completely. Still doesn't matter since its not out yet. This is getting good though. I wanna see the game change more and more. As long as it steers clear of certain things (comeback mechanics, focus attack esque mechanics) I dont see how this game will be bad besides being boring. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 18:17:11 GMT -5
You can't do it off of a low range, low hitting poke. It was "too good" compared to how bad the other characters were since she had great frame advantage, fast speed, and good normals. If the characters weren't so nerfed it would have been fine but alas. I mean as far as hit confirming into the moves. Both are the same. I figured it would change in a way to make it harder to confirm off a single hit and not just removing it completely. Still doesn't matter since its not out yet. This is getting good though. I wanna see the game change more and more. As long as it steers clear of certain things (comeback mechanics, focus attack esque mechanics) I dont see how this game will be bad besides being boring. Well I mean Cr mk was far ranged, low hitting, and fast. She has a lot of plus moves with more than one overhead. She could be safe if she wanted plus had great buttons. If they nerfed it they wanted to tone down her damage she good from strong pokes and mixups. That's my guess with how they're nerfing. How many characters combo off of cr. mk currently? So you don't care what they change as long as it's not 4? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 18:53:23 GMT -5
I mean as far as hit confirming into the moves. Both are the same. I figured it would change in a way to make it harder to confirm off a single hit and not just removing it completely. Still doesn't matter since its not out yet. This is getting good though. I wanna see the game change more and more. As long as it steers clear of certain things (comeback mechanics, focus attack esque mechanics) I dont see how this game will be bad besides being boring. Well I mean Cr mk was far ranged, low hitting, and fast. She has a lot of plus moves with more than one overhead. She could be safe if she wanted plus had great buttons. If they nerfed it they wanted to tone down her damage she good from strong pokes and mixups. That's my guess with how they're nerfing. How many characters combo off of cr. mk currently? So you don't care what they change as long as it's not 4? Umm yes and no. Like I said I don't know if the game will be fun. I just want it to be solid right now. Sf4 is kind of the opposite of solid so I guess you can say they can change anything. If they changed everything to sf4s link system I would have no complaints. I'm only worried about stuff like focus attack and bad input engines ruining solid play again. Only option selects there should be are the risky ones. Similar to how they are kof and even thats a stretch.. If I made a list of top 10 bad fighting game mechanics sf4 would be on it more then any other game. Marvel has the worst with xfactor and kof hd mode would come close behind ultras and focus attack. If we wanna go even further I'd change the whole game to hand drawn sprites; delete all sf characters and then add kof characters. That would cause an uproar from the kids sf5s trying to bring in though :/ |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 19:01:50 GMT -5
Well I mean Cr mk was far ranged, low hitting, and fast. She has a lot of plus moves with more than one overhead. She could be safe if she wanted plus had great buttons. If they nerfed it they wanted to tone down her damage she good from strong pokes and mixups. That's my guess with how they're nerfing. How many characters combo off of cr. mk currently? So you don't care what they change as long as it's not 4? Umm yes and no. Like I said I don't know if the game will be fun. I just want it to be solid right now. Sf4 is kind of the opposite of solid so I guess you can say they can change anything. If they changed everything to sf4s link system I would have no complaints. I'm only worried about stuff like focus attack and bad input engines ruining solid play again. Only option selects there should be are the risky ones. Similar to how they are kof and even thats a stretch.. If I made a list of top 10 bad fighting game mechanics sf4 would be on it more then any other game. Marvel has the worst with xfactor and kof hd mode would come close behind ultras and focus attack. If we wanna go even further I'd change the whole game to hand drawn sprites; delete all sf characters and then add kof characters. That would cause an uproar from the kids sf5s trying to bring in though :/ The link system was poorly implemented but I wouldn't put it up front with the worst game design. I mean there are some horrible and broken fighters out there that never got far, unless you mean out of popular mainstream fighters. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 19:09:27 GMT -5
Best of Three with Street Fighter 5 with Valmaster:
xhttp://www.twitch.tv/dailydot
Censorship will be a topic.
UltraChenTv. He's a Cammy fan so he might say something too.
xhttp://www.twitch.tv/ultrachentv
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 19:16:59 GMT -5
Umm yes and no. Like I said I don't know if the game will be fun. I just want it to be solid right now. Sf4 is kind of the opposite of solid so I guess you can say they can change anything. If they changed everything to sf4s link system I would have no complaints. I'm only worried about stuff like focus attack and bad input engines ruining solid play again. Only option selects there should be are the risky ones. Similar to how they are kof and even thats a stretch.. If I made a list of top 10 bad fighting game mechanics sf4 would be on it more then any other game. Marvel has the worst with xfactor and kof hd mode would come close behind ultras and focus attack. If we wanna go even further I'd change the whole game to hand drawn sprites; delete all sf characters and then add kof characters. That would cause an uproar from the kids sf5s trying to bring in though :/ The link system was poorly implemented but I wouldn't put it up front with the worst game design. I mean there are some horrible and broken fighters out there that never got far, unless you mean out of popular mainstream fighters. I didn't. In fact that is the one thing I liked in 4. Especially since I played Gen |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 19:29:12 GMT -5
The link system was poorly implemented but I wouldn't put it up front with the worst game design. I mean there are some horrible and broken fighters out there that never got far, unless you mean out of popular mainstream fighters. I didn't. In fact that is the one thing I liked in 4. Especially since I played Gen OK I misread you then. I don't think it needs links to "fix" it. That doesn't make a bad game good. It has other issues in design. |
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Post by Great Dark Hero on Nov 10, 2015 20:12:06 GMT -5
"Censorship is good."
He is the only one who really believes that.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 20:14:56 GMT -5
"Censorship is good." He is the only one who really believes that. Clearly he isn't or this wouldn't be happening to our games so much. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 10, 2015 20:49:20 GMT -5
Max was pretty solid on this one and gave a clean take on it.
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Post by JACK-2 on Nov 10, 2015 23:01:11 GMT -5
ESRB being responsible would make sense. I can't blame Capcom if it is indeed needed to keep a Teen Rating. But, the on demand nerfs on the other hand.
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Post by Great Dark Hero on Nov 11, 2015 0:55:40 GMT -5
Next thing you know, cross ups will no longer exist and all normals become -200000 on block.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 11, 2015 1:08:52 GMT -5
You'll heal your opponent when hitting them next, lol. ESRB being responsible would make sense. I can't blame Capcom if it is indeed needed to keep a Teen Rating. But, the on demand nerfs on the other hand. It doesn't make sense to me with all the other games with more racy content in them like Senran Kaguran. Not to mention SF4 had shots of characters. Cartoons have butt slaps in them and so forth. |
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LMFAO Man SF4 is so vastly superior to SF5 and absolutely is not easy to win at a high level, if it's so easy to win at as you claim, why can't america capture titles versus the Japanese ever. Why are the same strong players always placing highly in tournaments despite 1,000+ casual players entering EVO and not a single one reaching top 8? Because what you're saying isn't true that's why. SF4 has some n00b friendly things sure, but nothing as easy as SF5 combos and SF5 is a mashfest. So you aren't good at SF4 and don't enjoy the comeback ultras and focus, along with option selects, I got you. I do not feel SF4 is better than Alpha 2 or 3, CVS2, or 3rd Strike, but it is MASSIVELY better than the current EZ mode SF5. Top players hate SF5 and even randoms don't enjoy watching SF5 streams and decry it's bland boring lack of hype and excitement. Check any current major SF'er streamer and watch the outpouring of disdain for SF5 in every stream from casuals and tournament players alike. SF5 for most of the current SF Audience is not a fun experience and making things overly easy and too restrictive isn't gonna fly when everyone is use to more. SF5 is a laughable childs game in it's current build and there is no way the game can survive 5+ years of tournament play with jab mashing into super and slow paced target combos into super cancels. Vtrigger isn't exciting or deep, you can MASH Karin out of her rekkas in Vtrigger, SF4 Fei's standard non ex rekkas are vastly superior to Karin's Vtrigger in SF5 and that's an issue. 
