Batman Vs Goku

[JACK-2]

High-Ends using all his best tools.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

What tools specifically? I'm just thinking normal Bats here with good feats? If so I'd say Goku.

[JACK-2]

Non-standard equipment: Justice Buster, Hellbat Suit, Insider Suit and so on. Also, everyone is in character.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 10:58:08 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Non-standard equipment: Justice Buster, Hellbat Suit, Insider Suit and so on. Also, everyone is in character.

So no "blowing up Earth" nonsense?

[JACK-2]

Pretty much, Goku fights like he normally does and Batman knows Goku isn't a regular human. But, doesn't have deep knowledge of the character. Furthermore, Batman can swap out any equipment instantly..no load times. they start 1 mile away from each other in a deserted city the size of New York.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 12:46:31 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Pretty much, Goku fights like he normally does and Batman knows Goku isn't a regular human. But, doesn't have deep knowledge of the character. Furthermore, Batman can swap out any equipment instantly..no load times. they start 1 mile away from each other in a deserted city the size of New York.

Curious, do you consider Batman to be a better fighter than supernatural martial artists?

[JACK-2]

Personally, I do. I remember having this argument where people claimed Goku was a fighting genius because of his power-level. I find that in western works powers don't necessarily correlate to good hand 2 hand like it does in DBZ and anime like DBZ. Where your skill is proportionate to your power-level. I think that's why DBZ is hard to debate against, it uses a very self consistent system that is bad for comparison. What do you think?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 13:08:41 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Personally, I do. I remember having this argument where people claimed Goku was a fighting genius because of his power-level. I find that in western works powers don't necessarily correlate to good hand 2 hand like it does in DBZ and anime like DBZ. Where your skill is proportionate to your power-level. I think that's why DBZ is hard to debate against, it uses a very self consistent system that is bad for comparison. What do you think?

I think it's just a different style. I get annoyed with people acting like Batman is the best fighter ever because he has "127" styles, there are only so many ways to punch and kick and this doesn't determine efficiency. It reminds me of the skill argument I had with people in regards to Spider-Man vs any MA where they assumed any MA could use powers better because they had martial arts training.

Characters like Sensui got their great power through training which is different than a character like Superman who absorbs sunlight as part of his DNA. If he learned supernatural levels of skill I'd put that above punching and kicking alone. I mean it's not like Batman would know something so far out of the league of what Sensui would know. Some obscure grapple? Compared to elevating yourself to a sacred level which took others a lifetime to attain and he managed in only a few years? I find that more impressive.

Same argument with Ryu vs Batman.

[JACK-2]

Well, if you mean martial arts in terms of powers then no way. Characters like Ryu or Sensui have great spiritual powers which they obtain from training. Batman on the other hand just learns a few skills and what not, he still needs equipment to make up the difference. He doesn't have any powers, sometimes the characters can use sorcery in addition to proficiency in h2h combat like in Mortal Kombat. Where the characters are comparable to Batman in terms of skill, but they can also teleport or shoot energy. however, they're still "human" in terms of power and reflexes versus Characters like Ryu, Sensui and Goku. Even, when they don't have esoteric powers they still have superhuman strength, speed and perception for example. The characters in Grappler Baki can kill dinosaurs with their barehands, stop earthquakes with punches and move before the human brain can register their movements. But, they have no "Chi" powers. Martial artist in asian media are generally more powerful in terms of overall base stats, with or without powers.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 14:10:34 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Well, if you mean martial arts in terms of powers then no way. Characters like Ryu or Sensui have great spiritual powers which they obtain from training. Batman on the other hand just learns a few skills and what not, he still needs equipment to make up the difference. He doesn't have any powers, sometimes the characters can use sorcery in addition to proficiency in h2h combat like in Mortal Kombat. Where the characters are comparable to Batman in terms of skill, but they can also teleport or shoot energy. however, they're still "human" in terms of power and reflexes versus Characters like Ryu, Sensui and Goku. Even, when they don't have esoteric powers they still have superhuman strength, speed and perception for example. The characters in Grappler Baki can kill dinosaurs with their barehands, stop earthquakes with punches and move before the human brain can register their movements. But, they have no "Chi" powers. Martial artist in asian media are generally more powerful in terms of overall base stats, with or without powers.

I think it comes down to a difference in presentation. I just get annoyed when people say "Ryu has superstrength so remove it". Ryu has his super strength as a result of his intense training, something Batman has yet to be able to do.

Batman does strength and physical training just like Captain America does, why does his training count whereas Sensui's doesn't? Sensui was the most skilled fighter in YYH (even after he was scaled out) and he had tons of experience and some supernatural skill.

Western media likes to separate super powers, magic, and "skill" which is why you get people over-hyping it so much. They'd love to see Batman beat every character "without powers" because it's wish fulfillment for them, but powers don't always work against skill.

The argument that annoyed me in KMC was the idea that Spider-Man would lose to any trained Martial Artist because he "lacked training" despite him being on of the most experienced fighters around. Proficiency and efficiency aren't the same.

It reminds me of another annoying argument I used to se where people would say in (DnD) that magic should be overpowered because "it's magic" and physical stuff is just swinging a sword when they have to use words and gestures to get those effects. Characters in fiction use physical skill to do extraordinary things all of the time.

Bleh.

[JACK-2]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Western works show martial arts as a skill set which a character can have along with other skills. While asian characters it's more about the complete package, a package that includes super strength too. I mean Batman has super strength too...just not on the level of Ryu. This is the problem I have with versus. Different works function differently. You have to take that into consideration in matches, especially with works from different cultures like these. Fanboys ignore thos and do stupid things like try to force the standard on another. Ryu without his powers is dumb because his training has amped everything about him to a great degree. You can't seperate his martial arts from his powers. Even if you banned projectiles, because the character is designed to work very differently than Batman and liu kang.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 16:25:42 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Western works show martial arts as a skill set which a character can have along with other skills. While asian characters it's more about the complete package, a package that includes super strength too. I mean Batman has super strength too...just not on the level of Ryu. This is the problem I have with versus. Different works function differently. You have to take that into consideration in matches, especially with works from different cultures like these. Fanboys ignore thos and do stupid things like try to force the standard on another. Ryu without his powers is dumb because his training has amped everything about him to a great degree. You can't seperate his martial arts from his powers. Even if you banned projectiles, because the character is designed to work very differently than Batman and liu kang.

Yea that "peak human" just means "We'll let him do inhuman things but not say he has super powers because he's Batman."

Did you ever hear of the dumb argument that Flash would lose matches in Marvel since there is no speed force? That's just reaching.

MK characters outside of a few just seem to be peak-ish human with special traits, not straight up superhuman like SF characters. That's what MK fanboys don't understand.

[JACK-2]

Mk has some ice feats, but nothing the individual can use in a match. I remember people arguing that Mk would beat Sf characters because the characters can cause Armageddon. They ignore that it took countless Mortal Kombats and years of incursions between realms before they could do that and they didn't even destroy anything iirc. Out of context feats are the worst. Yeah, Dbz tards tried to argue the samething. That thanos can't use the infinity gems to destroy the verse because they don't work in other verses. Fanboys. So, wh do uou think wins with the given conditions.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 17:07:35 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Mk has some ice feats, but nothing the individual can use in a match. I remember people arguing that Mk would beat Sf characters because the characters can cause Armageddon. They ignore that it took countless Mortal Kombats and years of incursions between realms before they could do that and they didn't even destroy anything iirc. Out of context feats are the worst. Yeah, Dbz tards tried to argue the samething. That thanos can't use the infinity gems to destroy the verse because they don't work in other verses. Fanboys. So, wh do uou think wins with the given conditions.

I think they want MK to win because it has more blood.

In this match, doesn't Batman's best tech allow him to stand up to the heavy hitters? If so well....

[JACK-2]

He defeated Kalabac with the HellBat armor and I think he defeated the justice league with the Justice Buster.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 17:29:17 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

He defeated Kalabac with the HellBat armor and I think he defeated the justice league with the Justice Buster.

Kalibac may fluctuate but Justice Buster is way too strong.

[JACK-2]

So, you think he wins?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 18:58:17 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

So, you think he wins?

I don't think Goku beats Superman so no.

[JACK-2]

The justice buster can react to The Flash, but then again people think Goku is FTL. so yeah...

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 19:14:00 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

The justice buster can react to The Flash, but then again people think Goku is FTOL. so yeah...

Well Flash at full potential is outright broken so I won't get into that. He tends to job for the plot. Do you have anything recent with that armor? It's been a while.

[JACK-2]

Batman stated tat he could keep up at optimal speeds. So, I doubt he could keep up with him going all out.

All I have was the fight from End Game where he owned the league.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 19:35:50 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Batman stated tat he could keep up at optimal speeds. So, I doubt he could keep up with him going all out.

All I have was the fight from End Game where he owned the league.

Yea although the plot force is intact it's too much for Goku.

Do you have them on hand?? If not don't worry about it.

Actually point me to the issue.

[JACK-2]

Batman seems to always have "something" to take out the Justice League lol.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 19:44:56 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Batman seems to always have "something" to take out the Justice League lol.

The writer and intense jobbing.

Pretty sweet that was on the tube. Never thought of doing that actually.

[JACK-2]

You can find a lot of comics on youtube. Very convenient tbh.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 20:55:56 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

You can find a lot of comics on youtube. Very convenient tbh.

Makes sense seeing as you can do anything else. Great find.

[JACK-2]

I'm getting back into comics again. Been reading some since about two years ago. I think I'm about to delve even deeper.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 28, 2015 21:02:05 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I'm getting back into comics again. Been reading some since about two years ago. I think I'm about to delve even deeper.

I have too but I'm going more into older stuff.

[JACK-2]

Do you think Batman is a better Martial Artist than Goku?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I think Batman is overrated as a Martial Artist. He gets a lot of hype based on "styles" but I think quality> quantity. Reminds me of the Spider-Man vs MA threads.