The Importance of Online Play In Fighting Games.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

This is a great article here:

www.eventhubs.com/news/2015/nov/19/no-one-likes-be-called-online-warrior-even-though-everybody-leveled-online-play-valle-talks-about-network-plays-importance/



Very few people in the FGC have the kind of resume that LU|Alex Valle has built up over the years. From being one of the world's best fighting game players, to running tournaments and hosting high production streams, there's little he hasn't tackled, earning him the nickname Mr. Street Fighter Himself.

Valle recent went in on Twitter discussing how many players in the FGC leveled up their play online, but that no one likes being called an online warrior, and how this attitude and perception could be hurting out scene.

Whether or not you agree with Valle, there's no denying this is an interesting discussion. As always, feel free to sound off in the comments below, however you feel.

You can find Alex's stream of dialogue below.







Valle also spoke about how the closing of most arcades throughout the U.S. has impacted the fighting game community, and how some players transition from online play to offline competitions.








Regardless of your thoughts on the above matters, Valle ended with a quote that should resonate with everyone.



Thoughts?

[Great Dark Hero]

Believe it or not, I did a lot of leveling up online.
I can only go as far as to see online as a "secondary practice mode" (depending on the nature of the netcoding and the connections recieved from other players). I started playing online on GGPO KOF several years ago and I also played a little bit of Tekken 5DR online at my friends house, living in Germany. As of 2011, I started playing online Tekken 6 for the first time on the PS3. Within a two year period of time, I learned how to BDC properly and I picked up Julia Chang and Heihachi again. Towards the beginning of 2013, I started playing online less frequently. I was one of the lucky ones to have an offline scene in Germany, yet I still did a lot of my leveling up online or in the training mode (for KOFXIII, I didn't have a choice BUT to play offline with others because... the netcode was horrifying). I also played online SSFIV for a few months... then I came running back to KOFXIII (for reasons I will explain for another time). Then TTT2 came online and went online a lot more often again. Throughout 2013 to end of 2014 when I moved here to Virginia, I played TTT2 online hella often and learned a lot of new stuff for offline competition.

So, yes. Online is useful... but it ultimately depends on the netcoding... and as long as you avoid playing others who resort to utilizing a wifi connections from a McDonalds (XD LOL Immature joke? Yes. But, you understand what I mean).

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 20, 2015 3:55:38 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

Believe it or not, I did a lot of leveling up online.
I can only go as far as to see online as a "secondary practice mode" (depending on the nature of the netcoding and the connections recieved from other players). I started playing online on GGPO KOF several years ago and I also played a little bit of Tekken 5DR online at my friends house, living in Germany. As of 2011, I started playing online Tekken 6 for the first time on the PS3. Within a two year period of time, I learned how to BDC properly and I picked up Julia Chang and Heihachi again. Towards the beginning of 2013, I started playing online less frequently. I was one of the lucky ones to have an offline scene in Germany, yet I still did a lot of my leveling up online or in the training mode (for KOFXIII, I didn't have a choice BUT to play offline with others because... the netcode was horrifying). I also played online SSFIV for a few months... then I came running back to KOFXIII (for reasons I will explain for another time). Then TTT2 came online and went online a lot more often again. Throughout 2013 to end of 2014 when I moved here to Virginia, I played TTT2 online hella often and learned a lot of new stuff for offline competition.

So, yes. Online is useful... but it ultimately depends on the netcoding... and as long as you avoid playing others who resort to utilizing a wifi connections from a McDonalds (XD LOL Immature joke? Yes. But, you understand what I mean).

I like to keep things simple I don't think it's an issue at all if you're able to improve off of it. If a person is good, then they are good at the game. Simple as that for me regardless of how they got there. It's kind of like people who say "this person has a degree" but then they're incompetent. The truth is a person can be bad online or offline. Now there are many scrubs online, but most of them don't care about getting "good" and want to just have fun and that's fine.

You're definitely going to see more and more of people learning online as the netcode gets better along with the technology. Not only that but there *are* fewer arcades and most people just don't live in a highly populated areas like New York, SoCal, or even Atlanta or Houston so they have to play somehow. I know I'm not driving 2 hours just to play for an hour a few times a week, I have other things to do, I'm not some kid with an abundance of free time. I just get annoyed with the mentality that "You should play offline, even if you have to drive 5 hours!". I mean get real.

People were complaining about Blazblue having solid netcode since they said it would destroy the "community". If the "community" is a bunch of pseudo elitists who constantly fight and rip people off then good riddance because it wasn't a good community. That said people playing offline and enjoying themselves is great.

If netcode and online get to the point where it's offline no matter where I play I'll be happy.

Japan has a densely populated area with great players AND good online. It's just not fair, lol.

[Great Dark Hero]

Having said all of that, online communities have a tendency to be garbage. While online game play "can" help individuals improvement in certain areas, the player needs to keep in mind that online and offline are two completely different environments. In offline tournaments, you are not really in your comfort zone (or rather, you are not in the comfort of your own home). It is also important to realize that no matter how many points or how much rank you get from online, being able to showcase you progression and skill at the offline tournament is what matters the most. As I said before in this comment, online communities tend to be really scrubby at best. TTT2 players online get RIDICULOUSLY (and hilariously) mad online. Legitimately mad at that, usually over something very scrubby. There is also a new term that is being utilized: "Try Hard." What the hell is that supposed to mean? Players are made at other players for trying to get better at the game in preparation for events or for the sake of self-improvement? Self-improvement is a bad thing to some of these guys basically. That's ass backwards. According to Tekkenzaibatsu, some players (who go tournaments or are at least aware of how offline events work), were poking fun about a "online etiquette" (which often includes something along the lines of no lows, no throws, don't use the same juggles, don't "spam", let the opponent get up, etc, etc, etc). The best choice to make is to simply play until you run into competition players who will improve or until you can play at an offline event.

There is also another issue to consider with playing online: Some players may develop unhealthy habits that may prove to be their downfall at a tournament. Example, using an extremely flawed frame trap option on KOFXIII.
I know a player who had a tendency of going for Kyo's qcf+B (-1 on block. The D version is -3). After then, he would attempt EXDP if he had meter. The issue is that the only thing I had to do was grab him (or command grab, depending on the character). Because, in an online scenario, players may end up... uh... playing with themselves too much (which SFIV is VERY bad about because that sort of thing IS rewarded in a lot of cases). The stuff that players get away with in an online scenario would otherwise be their death sentence at a tournament. It is not a good idea to become complacent while you playing a fighting game of any kind.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 20, 2015 4:30:22 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

Having said all of that, online communities have a tendency to be garbage. While online game play "can" help individuals improvement in certain areas, the player needs to keep in mind that online and offline are two completely different environments. In offline tournaments, you are not really in your comfort zone (or rather, you are not in the comfort of your own home). It is also important to realize that no matter how many points or how much rank you get from online, being able to showcase you progression and skill at the offline tournament is what matters the most. As I said before in this comment, online communities tend to be really scrubby at best. TTT2 players online get RIDICULOUSLY (and hilariously) mad online. Legitimately mad at that, usually over something very scrubby. There is also a new term that is being utilized: "Try Hard." What the hell is that supposed to mean? Players are made at other players for trying to get better at the game in preparation for events or for the sake of self-improvement? Self-improvement is a bad thing to some of these guys basically. That's ass backwards. According to Tekkenzaibatsu, some players (who go tournaments or are at least aware of how offline events work), were poking fun about a "online etiquette" (which often includes something along the lines of no lows, no throws, don't use the same juggles, don't "spam", let the opponent get up, etc, etc, etc). The best choice to make is to simply play until you run into competition players who will improve or until you can play at an offline event.

There is also another issue to consider with playing online: Some players may develop unhealthy habits that may prove to be their downfall at a tournament. Example, using an extremely flawed frame trap option on KOFXIII.
I know a player who had a tendency of going for Kyo's qcf+B (-1 on block. The D version is -3). After then, he would attempt EXDP if he had meter. The issue is that the only thing I had to do was grab him (or command grab, depending on the character). Because, in an online scenario, players may end up... uh... playing with themselves too much (which SFIV is VERY bad about because that sort of thing IS rewarded in a lot of cases). The stuff that players get away with in an online scenario would otherwise be their death sentence at a tournament. It is not a good idea to become complacent while you playing a fighting game of any kind.

Offline communities can have their scumbags from all the fights I've seen, stealing, and other nonsense. I think it helps to find a good community where you can grow online or offline.

If you're playing in a laggy game then you're wasting your time. It's best to play with no lag or extremely little lag. Offline can be different too, as playing with a friend isn't the same as playing on stage or in a small room. That has more to do with nerves than skill as a player could just hate distractions but be more skilled otherwise.

Offline also allows you to hear you opponents button presses which is a distinct advantage you don't get online.

Kof Xiii Chin in lag with ex roll and Kim mashing... god help me...


As a player who has played different genres of games competitively online and been one of the best (or even THE best) player in them, I think you need to maximize your tools. The first thing I do is add really good players or the best and focus on them. Random matches are bad unless you're trying to run into someone good... some genres have little to no offline scene so you *have* to play online.

Online is a tool and it's best to maximize it to effectiveness. Use it to network and play people offline if they are in your area as well. Much easier to network online quickly and freely.

[JACK-2]

The pseudo elitism surrounding online vs off-line play is ridiculous. Competition is competition, you can argue that offline is better which I agree. But, people act as if it's feasible to travel hundreds of miles, sit in a crowded room with smelly people just to play a game is a good thing. This isn't Japan, the North American scene needs online alot more than it's willing to admit.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 20, 2015 8:18:56 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

The pseudo elitism surrounding online vs off-line play is ridiculous. Competition is competition, you can argue that offline is better which I agree. But, people act as if it's feasible to travel hundreds of miles, sit in a crowded room with smelly people just to play a game is a good thing. This isn't Japan, the North American scene needs online alot more than it's willing to admit.

Well not to mention the impact it's had in the community of people who just want to play, not even the "hardcore" community. No way fighting games would survive without online play nowadays. Multiplayer would just die. What about those of us who work and have a business and want to just kick back after a long day and want to play in our boxers without dealing with clowns? Online is great for that. I have a life and I want to be able to just play my game and not go through all of that hassle. What if you travel a lot for business and online is the only way you can even touch a multiplayer game? Without online people just wouldn't be able to play other humans.

Offline scenes can be limited in character choice. Say you're playing SF4 and you need to learn your matchups. What if people in your scene only play 10 characters. Where are you going to learn the other matchups? You don't have a choice but to play online.

Hell even if I lived in Japan I would still value online for the things it brings to the table. Their online is godly but those players still use it over there to supplement their online play. People should use both as a tool and not neglect one.


And yea, driving hundreds of miles to sit in a room with smelly autistic kids who want to "go pro" and get into fights if they lose? Just not feasible for everyone.

[WarMachineRhodey]

Nov 20, 2015 4:30:22 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

Having said all of that, online communities have a tendency to be garbage. While online game play "can" help individuals improvement in certain areas, the player needs to keep in mind that online and offline are two completely different environments. In offline tournaments, you are not really in your comfort zone (or rather, you are not in the comfort of your own home). It is also important to realize that no matter how many points or how much rank you get from online, being able to showcase you progression and skill at the offline tournament is what matters the most. As I said before in this comment, online communities tend to be really scrubby at best. TTT2 players online get RIDICULOUSLY (and hilariously) mad online. Legitimately mad at that, usually over something very scrubby. There is also a new term that is being utilized: "Try Hard." What the hell is that supposed to mean? Players are made at other players for trying to get better at the game in preparation for events or for the sake of self-improvement? Self-improvement is a bad thing to some of these guys basically. That's ass backwards. According to Tekkenzaibatsu, some players (who go tournaments or are at least aware of how offline events work), were poking fun about a "online etiquette" (which often includes something along the lines of no lows, no throws, don't use the same juggles, don't "spam", let the opponent get up, etc, etc, etc). The best choice to make is to simply play until you run into competition players who will improve or until you can play at an offline event.

There is also another issue to consider with playing online: Some players may develop unhealthy habits that may prove to be their downfall at a tournament. Example, using an extremely flawed frame trap option on KOFXIII.
I know a player who had a tendency of going for Kyo's qcf+B (-1 on block. The D version is -3). After then, he would attempt EXDP if he had meter. The issue is that the only thing I had to do was grab him (or command grab, depending on the character). Because, in an online scenario, players may end up... uh... playing with themselves too much (which SFIV is VERY bad about because that sort of thing IS rewarded in a lot of cases). The stuff that players get away with in an online scenario would otherwise be their death sentence at a tournament. It is not a good idea to become complacent while you playing a fighting game of any kind.

Believe it or not, I did a lot of leveling up online.

I can only go as far as to see online as a "secondary practice mode" (depending on the nature of the netcoding and the connections recieved from other players). I started playing online on GGPO KOF several years ago and I also played a little bit of Tekken 5DR online at my friends house, living in Germany. As of 2011, I started playing online Tekken 6 for the first time on the PS3. Within a two year period of time, I learned how to BDC properly and I picked up Julia Chang and Heihachi again. Towards the beginning of 2013, I started playing online less frequently. I was one of the lucky ones to have an offline scene in Germany, yet I still did a lot of my leveling up online or in the training mode (for KOFXIII, I didn't have a choice BUT to play offline with others because... the netcode was horrifying). I also played online SSFIV for a few months... then I came running back to KOFXIII (for reasons I will explain for another time). Then TTT2 came online and went online a lot more often again. Throughout 2013 to end of 2014 when I moved here to Virginia, I played TTT2 online hella often and learned a lot of new stuff for offline competition.



So, yes. Online is useful... but it ultimately depends on the netcoding... and as long as you avoid playing others who resort to utilizing a wifi connections from a McDonalds (XD LOL Immature joke? Yes. But, you understand what I mean).

I agree like you said i also view online as more as a training mode where it will help you learn matchups. A good netcode can only go so far until its simply held back by bad infrastructure and or people just being dumb downloading torrents while trying to play.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Isn't any match that's not competitive for an aspiring player essentially "training" in that you're trying to improve? I'm of the mind that you should use every tool you have. Online and off. Why not supplement both? I think that's the best approach and even Japan plays online.

Any individual match depends on several factors. The games netcode, the insrastructure, the ping, and what the person is doing. You could have good infrastructure and still have lag for a variety of reasons. I've played games and I've had no lag problems and I can play just as well as I do offline. If the game is bad (like console Kof XIII) then yea it's pointless. I can only judge by a case by case basis, but I don't just play randoms. I add people who I have really great connections with who are also skilled.

If my connection with them gives me no problems then I don't care.

Killer Instinct for instance has spectacular online. I know GGPO has good online. Some games have tournaments online and some genres are pretty much online. Some games I played like Playstation All Stars and Twisted Metal, I even hosted the tournaments. Sometimes you had issues but most games were great. It would have been simply impossible to make a scene with some of these games.

If I have a great match with a great player with no issues, then I don't see why it's a problem and to blanketly dismiss online nowadays just shows people aren't really aware of the direction that gaming is heading. More and more people who are crazy about "the scene" will find they'll get next to no play unless it's online.

[WarMachineRhodey]

Yea any match not in a tournament is training. Japan holds the topanga league online and who knows what other online tournaments they have for lesser known games. Have you played killer instict online c-master? I havent yet but i hear good things about its netcode.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 20, 2015 16:54:55 GMT -5 WarMachineRhodey said:

Yea any match not in a tournament is training. Japan holds the topanga league online and who knows what other online tournaments they have for lesser known games. Have you played killer instict online c-master? I havent yet but i hear good things about its netcode.

Yea and I know Blazblue did it and some people from "the community" were crying saying that good online games with good netcode hurt "the scene".

Most of the people who feel this way are kids. They're 19-20 and either in school with an abundance of free time since their parents are paying for everything, or they're working some crappy job and play video games all day as an escape and think the rest of us do this. I'm sorry I have a company to run amongst other things and I'm not going way out of my way like that.

Killer Instinct has awesome netcode. I've played very little but it is good. That's one thing they did right and I hope the crossplay works spectacularly and that becomes a future thing.