Are "We" In This Together?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I hear this phrase thrown around a lot. "We're in this together."

What does this really mean? Who is we? Are some people entitled by birth to have something while giving nothing in return?

What are your thoughts?

[JACK-2]

We'll, like I said before. There is no "we". I'm my own person with my own interest. I don't believe in a "we" or some group with any shared interest.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 4, 2016 6:11:21 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

We'll, like I said before. There is no "we". I'm my own person with my own interest. I don't believe in a "we" or some group with any shared interest.

The people who use this rhetoric are people who want something out of someone else and they wish to guilt take from them by guilt tripping. I've always loved this notion that someone like myself is entitled to give while someone else sits back and makes demands while producing nothing in return. Socialists like MisterLC are fond of this mentality because they want the reward of hard work without having to do the hard work.

[misterlc]

Humans are social creatures. That's a scientific fact. The idea that "we" are not socializing when "you" read "my" post is delusional. We are all born from the intimate social act of semen fertilizing eggs. Even humans that remove themselves from all other humans will likely socialize with some other creatures. Not everything is political. Earth's creatures (we) are on/in this planet together.

I drive a concrete truck to many different types of job sites. I am only required to deliver the mud but whenever I see a situation where there is something else that I can do to help, I'll help my brothers out. I'll grab a come-a-long and pull mud if I see that someone is in over their head at a home project. I'll help pull the pump hoses when the crew seems undermanned. I'll clean the street after we're done. If there's no grate on the pump and I see a large clod go in it I'll stick my bare hand in the mud and pull it out despite the fact that I HATE sticking my hands in mud. The finishers thank me for my help and I tell them that we're a team. While I feel this way I don't fault my fellow drivers for not doing any of these things. These things aren't part of our job requirements. I don't do these things for job security either as I ignore stupid rules that irritate me like always wearing safety glasses. If my skills at operating the truck aren't enough to secure my job then I'll work somewhere where they are. I also left the company where I was getting paid by the hour and went to targeted the one where I get paid by the load because I like to get paid for working, not for sitting around doing nothing. I'm happy that I'm now making enough money so that I'm not eligible for any government assistance at all.

After thinking about your many statements for a while I realized that you are doing well despite probably being a victim of circumstance yourself. I'm thankful for this website and I'm glad that you kept inviting me to come here and check it out. I feel as though our social interactions have helped me to become stronger than I was before. You said it before that steel sharpens steel. I agree with that and another thing that you stated that I agree with is that when it comes to helping others that a line has to be drawn. Quit name calling cause it's beneath you. I'm no marxist or socialist or communist. I'm me. You're you. Whether we are family, friend, or foe WE are in this existence together.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I don't have the time or interest to sit here and deal with your denial and dishonesty again. If you came back just to pick up with that nonsense again, don't bother. Seriously.


You are a marxist and the truth hurts. It isn't about name calling. You believe in theft as long as it benefits another person. You believe in welfare programs. You believe in a centralized economy. You believe in "from each to his ability to each according to his need". You believe in subsidizing the bad choices of the irresponsible at the expense of the productive. You think you're entitled to something from someone else just because you exist and that others have to provide it at gunpoint. It's obvious and you've made this point very clear several times. Thus you are a Marxist. Don't play these games that marxists play by denying what you are by trying to couch it in different terms. State what you are.

There is no scientific fact that states that people require socialization for survival. There's nothing wrong with socializing but the simple fact is that a productive society functions better under voluntary choice. The "we are in this together" model you subscribe to is theft and force at gunpoint. "We" are not in this together because I'm an individual and I'm not enslaved to a group. I can leave and have other options in society and how are "we" in it when others steal from the productive while doing nothing? This idea that just because you exist and someone gave birth to you that you have a right to demand something from the rest of society at gunpoint is ridiculous. You can ask for assistance but you have no right to it. You have your own life and responsibilities and I have mine. There is no "we", you don't think about "we" when you do something that is good for you that you enjoy. I can't redistribute the leisure time of the irresponsible but they can redistribute the fruits of my hard labor. In essence people like that want all of the upside with none of the downside. You have things you consider your own that is private property that you don't want taken from you. Why don't "we" have a right to that? Why are people having kids they can't afford and then stealing from others? It's stupid and it hurts society.

This is all just a justification for stealing. I didn't invite you back. You came back and dug up old threads to deny your own marxist beliefs. Just admit what you really are and stop denying it. Just because we exist doesn't mean anybody is obligated to give you anything. Steel can sharpen steel but certain people can drag you into the pit. I've known too many people who talk a big game but don't follow through with it and I just don't have the time for it anymore. If you wanted it you would have shown it by now.

[misterlc]

Just because you say that I am a marxist doesn't make it true. You may as well call me a giraffe and say that the truth hurts. The term is so vague that it's not much more than your personal opinion and you may as well tell me that I'm ugly and to accept it as the truth, despite the fact that this so called truth hurts. It's name calling because you won't accept my definition of myself. If you understand that you're an individual and not enslaved to a group due to that fact, why then do you act as though it's okay for you to group a different individual? And you're incorrect about humans not requiring socialization for survival as all humans start out as infants and need others in order to survive. How is it that I don't think about we when "I" respond to "you" and "we" have this discussion that I enjoy and is good for me. I can't speak for you but I've never had a gun pointed at me in my entire life and if that is something that you deal with regularly then perhaps you should take your own advice and move to a safer neighborhood. The difference between us is that I will acknowledge that you are probably speaking figuratively about the whole gunpoint thing. I don't steal from people myself and I am not responsible for the evils that men commit against each other in society. The "we are in this together" model I subscribe to is simply that we exist together. I agree with you that we don't have a right to assistance from others and I also agree that a productive society functions better under voluntary choice. Our military for example is one of the strongest in the world because it is built from voluntary recruits. It is unfortunate that lazy people leech the fruits of the productive but it is a problem that is difficult to eliminate because of the nature of men. The laziest of all have made careers out of leeching off of others and these are most of the politicians in the world. As an individual you're not enslaved to a group but as a human you are definitely one of the many creatures that inhabit this world called human beings. You can't deny that fact no matter how unique you are. This website is a benefit to humans and you offer membership freely. You're doing exactly what I suggested in our phone conversation and freely providing your insight to the unwashed masses, no sarcasm intended. Nobody has a right to force you to do it but here it is anyway available to all, the lazy and hard working.

I'm not surprised that you didn't invite me back because I challenge your stances instead of just agreeing with you in every way. I seek and speak truth and like you said before, the truth hurts. I do agree with a lot of what you state but when I don't I won't pretend that I do just because I care about your feelings. That's not sincere and what good is an insincere friend? Like you said, that person will drag you into a pit.

With all that said I heard this song and thought about about our more heated discussions. Perhaps hearing it may mellow you a bit and we can agree to disagree in some areas and move on to more constructive discussions! enjoy!

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Mar 6, 2016 1:28:09 GMT -5 misterlc said:

Just because you say that I am a marxist doesn't make it true. You may as well call me a giraffe and say that the truth hurts. The term is so vague that it's not much more than your personal opinion and you may as well tell me that I'm ugly and to accept it as the truth, despite the fact that this so called truth hurts. It's name calling because you won't accept my definition of myself. If you understand that you're an individual and not enslaved to a group due to that fact, why then do you act as though it's okay for you to group a different individual? And you're incorrect about humans not requiring socialization for survival as all humans start out as infants and need others in order to survive. How is it that I don't think about we when "I" respond to "you" and "we" have this discussion that I enjoy and is good for me. I can't speak for you but I've never had a gun pointed at me in my entire life and if that is something that you deal with regularly then perhaps you should take your own advice and move to a safer neighborhood. The difference between us is that I will acknowledge that you are probably speaking figuratively about the whole gunpoint thing. I don't steal from people myself and I am not responsible for the evils that men commit against each other in society. The "we are in this together" model I subscribe to is simply that we exist together. I agree with you that we don't have a right to assistance from others and I also agree that a productive society functions better under voluntary choice. Our military for example is one of the strongest in the world because it is built from voluntary recruits. It is unfortunate that lazy people leech the fruits of the productive but it is a problem that is difficult to eliminate because of the nature of men. The laziest of all have made careers out of leeching off of others and these are most of the politicians in the world. As an individual you're not enslaved to a group but as a human you are definitely one of the many creatures that inhabit this world called human beings. You can't deny that fact no matter how unique you are. This website is a benefit to humans and you offer membership freely. You're doing exactly what I suggested in our phone conversation and freely providing your insight to the unwashed masses, no sarcasm intended. Nobody has a right to force you to do it but here it is anyway available to all, the lazy and hard working.

I'm not surprised that you didn't invite me back because I challenge your stances instead of just agreeing with you in every way. I seek and speak truth and like you said before, the truth hurts. I do agree with a lot of what you state but when I don't I won't pretend that I do just because I care about your feelings. That's not sincere and what good is an insincere friend? Like you said, that person will drag you into a pit.

With all that said I heard this song and thought about about our more heated discussions. Perhaps hearing it may mellow you a bit and we can agree to disagree in some areas and move on to more constructive discussions! enjoy!

You don't agree with a voluntary society because you blatantly believe in socialist ideology and even said your support theft. Not only that but you defended it for month after month while lying about it. Cut the bullshit. If you agreed with these principles we would not be here doing this. What you said is clearly written down so it's not like I'm lying so stop pretending we're as dumb as you want us to be by saying you don't believe otherwise. Marxist is not a vague term and facts are facts. A human is not a giraffe but a socialist is a socialist. Attractiveness is highly objective with some preference thrown in but we can safely say who is attractive and who is ugly because humans are biologically hardwired to determine what is attractive. The people who don't like are ugly people who are in denial and want to say beauty comes from the inside, but ugly on the outside is ugly on the inside more often than not. Nothing beautiful about envy and resentment. The definition of socialism is very clear but you want it to be vague so you can ignore it and frankly I'm just tired of your lies.

Stop with this "we're in this together". We're not. You make it seem like we're all making an equal contribution when there are a significant amount of people (a majority) who take more than they contribute. So stop acting like we need these people to survive. They're dead weight. They cannot survive without the theft and leeching off of others. They are parasites. Why is this hard for you to understand? If people were producing something of value you would have a wrong but somewhat understandable point but in reality I don't need a thief. A thief provides no benefit to society and only harms it for his own gain.

You're in a tremendous amount of denial and I am fed up with having to repeat myself with you because you've shown yourself to be quite dishonest on this end. You're not a marxist because I say so, you're a marxist because you have Marxist beliefs, and coming on here lying about them and spouting your bs over and over again isn't going to convince me or anybody else. A person can break into my house and steal something and say they're not a thief but just because you deny it it wouldn't be true. You even said a thief is the same thing a running a business because it "takes effort".

You just said you were glad you got a better job so you wouldn't be on public assistance. Why on earth are you having kids if you can't afford to pay for them yourself? Kids are had by a voluntary choice by a woman and sometimes by a man, therefore there are YOUR responsibility. Adults are not infants and are responsible for themselves. Stop using this ridiculous argument that just because people participate in society that you're entitled to another person's productivity. If you believe in government wealth transfers and force therefore you're a Marxist. It's theft because the government forces you to pay for these programs or they throw you in prison, or they borrow or print the money and steal your purchasing power. Do you think people would pay for these programs if they had a choice? Don't be dense.

You're using the government militaries as an example? An entity that uses force and often has to draft people for their services? Having a kid has nothing to do with socialization at all.

I don't live in the ghetto. I live in an excellent top tier neighborhood. I grew up in a poor area that had that long ago and that's why I work hard, to improve my life. People like you believe others who do nothing have the rights to enjoy my hard work while doing nothing.

This site is a benefit to free thinking people with a brain. I did not make it for idiots, losers, or morons. I made this site to escape those sites, I put it here for people who want to have a rational and intelligent discussion. When I invited you I gave you the benefit of the doubt and had assumed you matured over the years, but I realized I wasted my time and I see discussing things with you as a waste of energy at this point.

Talk about video games or something fun, but don't come on here and spout your marxist beliefs which I already highly disagree with and then lie about it while telling me I don't have a right to what I earn and expect a warm reception. You won't get one from me. I won't ban you outright but I will call you out on your crap because this place is a place about honesty which most people cannot handle.

So stop wasting my time repeating the same bs I've heard over and over again from other entitled marxists who deny what they are. You are what you are. Deal with it. You're not changing at this point in your life and it's obvious at this point. I have no interest in discussing these topics with you.

[misterlc]

Pointing fingers and calling names might convince somebody that you are right but I'm far beyond distraction tactics like those. There was never any intent to deceive you or anything to gain from doing so but you accuse me of lying. Quite silly in truth. I don't approve of theft, unless death by starvation is the only other alternative. That's a rare and specific circumstance but it's ignorant and naive to think that this never happens on the planet. I do believe in a social structure but not one that steals from people. The police, firemen, and military support civilizations progression and these are systems that are supported by taxes. If these are socialist ideals then the majority of hard working and productive people are in agreement with socialist ideals. Lazy people and thieves usually become outright criminals and are jailed for their reward, and you think these people are fans of the social structure which caught and jailed them? You simply have a lack of emotional experience in these matters and it shows when you act like we're not dealing with similar circumstances in this country together.
You say that you created the website for people who want to have a rational and intelligent discussion and then you call people morons because they disagree with you. That's not rational or intelligent, it's unnecessarily insulting and degrading.

The thing that I find most interesting is that I see that you have the potential to have a very large audience if you were to have a youtube channel where you share your views similar to a radio show. I may not agree with you on these issues but I know that there are a lot of people who would. You might be more popular than Rush if you give it a try. Just saying.

I'm doing extremely well for myself now and if things keep going the way that they have been maybe one day I'll be able to improve the world situation in my own way! Keep doing what you're doing if it's bringing you joy C! Also I have to ask, Do you actually type super fast or do you do one of those voice to text things?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Mar 6, 2016 4:34:13 GMT -5 misterlc said:

Pointing fingers and calling names might convince somebody that you are right but I'm far beyond distraction tactics like those. There was never any intent to deceive you or anything to gain from doing so but you accuse me of lying. Quite silly in truth. I don't approve of theft, unless death by starvation is the only other alternative. That's a rare and specific circumstance but it's ignorant and naive to think that this never happens on the planet. I do believe in a social structure but not one that steals from people. The police, firemen, and military support civilizations progression and these are systems that are supported by taxes. If these are socialist ideals then the majority of hard working and productive people are in agreement with socialist ideals. Lazy people and thieves usually become outright criminals and are jailed for their reward, and you think these people are fans of the social structure which caught and jailed them? You simply have a lack of emotional experience in these matters and it shows when you act like we're not dealing with similar circumstances in this country together.
You say that you created the website for people who want to have a rational and intelligent discussion and then you call people morons because they disagree with you. That's not rational or intelligent, it's unnecessarily insulting and degrading.

The thing that I find most interesting is that I see that you have the potential to have a very large audience if you were to have a youtube channel where you share your views similar to a radio show. I may not agree with you on these issues but I know that there are a lot of people who would. You might be more popular than Rush if you give it a try. Just saying.

I'm doing extremely well for myself now and if things keep going the way that they have been maybe one day I'll be able to improve the world situation in my own way! Keep doing what you're doing if it's bringing you joy C! Also I have to ask, Do you actually type super fast or do you do one of those voice to text things?

You've already lied in another thread. I'm not pointing any fingers. I'm stating the truth and you want to run from it and be in denial. You ran from it twice, once for a few years and then you ran away from it last year for 6 months or so. Everything is written down for everybody to see. I don't need to lie about anything.

You can't believe in people having a right to what they own and simultaneously believe in stealing. You simply can't. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you over your own stupid ideology. Nobody coerces you into starvation therefore you don't have a right to coerce others of their property any more than you have a right to take a person's kidney because you need it. People in need are not rare and with the socialism you believe in you lower everyone else's standard of living because theft removes anybody's motivation to work. The legal system is supposed to be in place to prevent this and not engage in it. You believe in this which is why I call you a socialist. If a person wants to try to steal, they can, but I also have a right to protect myself and my property and shoot that intruder. I fight fire with fire. Who the hell cares if they get jailed for breaking the law? How in the hell is a person who steals and goes to jail the same thing as the person who was doing the producing? I *have* experience on both sides because I was born extremely poor and I have a lot of family who did nothing with their lives. I've heard them make the same excuses that you do. They don't even need to steal directly when they can use the government to do it.

You're the one lacking in experience as you haven't been on the other side. You're the taker. You're the one who hasn't done anything with their life. You don't know what it's like to work hard, accomplish something and then be told you don't have a right to it because some loser sat on their ass and doesn't want to work. You don't know what it's like to have morons try to use the government to file frivolous lawsuits to try to take from you because they don't know what it's like to do anything. You've never paid half of your income in taxes or contributed as much to society as I have only to hear that people who do nothing are the hard workers and you aren't doing your "fair share". You haven't had to deal with the regulations. How many jobs have you created? What products have you come up with? That's right, nothing. Yet you sit on your ass and tell me it's no big deal. Your ignorance is just obscene. Rape and murder *happens* in the world too. Should they be allowed because it's a part of life? People steal because they feel they can get away with it and because it's quicker and easier to get what they want that way than by working. Otherwise why do it?

I'm also tired of you socialists going on and on about firefighters and police. Taxes were designed to be an extraction to pay to protect people's rights in a free society. That's what our society was founded on. When I pay for taxes to go for the army (assuming it's for defense and not invading other countries) that's a reasonable tax that can be paid for with a very small amount of money.

Person A voting to take from person B because they don't feel like working and want to live off of the system is NOT legitimate taxation, it's theft. You already said you believe in welfare programs (it's written down) so you believe in socialism and theft.

No I don't just fling the word stupid around when people disagree with me. I tell the truth and say stupid when I have to keep repeating myself over the same points over and over again and they fail to learn. You say you want to learn and do better and you keep spouting the same stupid garbage again and again and I'm just tired of listening to it. I have no problem with people who are intelligent who have a different point of view and I welcome it. I just don't want to waste my time talking to morons and people who are just ideological and argue from emotion. You're clearly a very religious and big government marxist (like most blacks) because you need to believe in something. You're too weak to carry yourself and you want others to carry you through life. Every argument you make is emotional based and not logic based and it's obvious. You say things that simply aren't true because you "want" them to be true. I'm sorry this is not the place for that. I'm the place that is the antithesis of places like that. I've had many who thought this was that kind of place and wore sorely mistaken and ran off when they couldn't face the truth. This is a place of facts. I use facts. Most people want to "believe" reality and ignore the facts because it makes them feel bad. I'm not that kind of person, which is why I don't like dealing with them and I don't associate with them. Our world has become a politically correct pile of garbage that caters to the weak and the stupid. People who want to "feel" the truth and don't want to accept any reality and responsibility. Of course what I say is *harsh* to them and I'm glad it's offensive to people like that. It means I'm doing it right.

I have zero interest in having a "large forum" because large places are full of idiots, morons, trolls, and flamers with crappy staff. You'll notice this place has very little of that (except when the occasional idiot shows up) and I like it that way. If I wanted a large site like KMC, I would have aimed for it, but I don't. This is a place where I relax and talk about things of interest and have debates with smart people. Not where I ram my head against the wall with the stupid, because what purpose does it serve me other than to waste my energy? People like you should go to those places where there is more activity and more of your ilk to follow whatever ideology or belief you have and ram it down the throat of others. That's the problem I have with people like you. You believe in tolerance but you don't tolerate anybody not agreeing with your religion or socialist nonsense. You then ram your opinion down the throat of people who don't have any interest in hearing it. I don't know why you ran off with your tail between your legs just to come back and tell us all how "not marxist" you are. It's a joke.

Your definition of doing "extremely well" is the definition of someone who has a poverty mentality. If barely getting by and not planning for the future while living in a trailer and needing to get off of public assistance with multiple children is "extremely well" then you're in another reality. This point of view right here shows why there is no point reaching you. You're a lost cause. You won't admit that you messed up your life at this point so how can you improve it?

I think it's time to start punish bad behavior, because I REALLY don't like it when people blatantly lie. Anybody else who deliberately lies when there is direct proof of it will receive an infraction. I'm tired of it. It's right up there with stealing as far as I'm concerned.

"You believe in rape."

"No I don't. I believe a man has the right to rape if he hasn't had sex in a while, but I don't believe in rape."

That's basically your argument. It's tedious. Thread closed, since I have better things to do with my time.