Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World

[Dja Majista]

Discuss this game that is coming out someday.
Best of all, apparently the protagonist of the first game is the antagonist of the second.
Lloyd is evil. And my brain is hemorrhaging from the paradoxes and impossibilities which that statement implies.

check this out:



He looks so awkward, trying to look evil in his classic red outfit with britches.

[Sinistrous]

damasta said:

the protagonist of the first game is the antagonist of the second.
Lloyd is evil. And my brain is hemorrhaging from the paradoxes and impossibilities which that statement implies.

Doesn't surprise me that much. Think about the original story: mister young idealist who selfishly puts the world on hold to save his childhood friend (among other things). Pretty similar beginnings to that young idealist who later went on all "everyone should be lifeless being ooooh please pay attention to me".

But you're right, he does still look like a dork. And what's with them recycling Asch's character design for that one guy in the trailer? Laaaazy.

[Dja Majista]

I thought I he seemed like more of a kratos/asch/jade. Apparently they needed a badass, and couldn't think of a better way to make one .

Anyway, while I realized Lloyd was a spitting image of the previous ToS antagonist in some respects... he's just too stupid to be evil!

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Recycling designs was lazy even back in the Genesis era.

[Sinistrous]

damasta said:

I thought I he seemed like more of a kratos/asch/jade. Apparently they needed a badass, and couldn't think of a better way to make one .

Anyway, while I realized Lloyd was a spitting image of the previous ToS antagonist in some respects... he's just too stupid to be evil!

He looks nothing like Kratos or Jade; he's the spitting image of Asch! This is unacceptable, despite the fact that I've never been a fan of the character design in the Tales series.

[Dja Majista]

I'm not simply talking about physical appearance. But honestly, he looks like an overly tanned kratos with long hair and glasses. Alright here's my assessment though.
Long droopy hair- Jade
semi-spikey hair- Asch
glasses- Jade
Hair color- Kratos
Mentor character- Kratos
Critic of protagonist- Jade
Prettyboy to the core- ALL

And on top of that, Symphonia fans are going to want a Kratos type character. This could be Namco's attempt to bring him back since most likely Kratos will NOT be playable even if he does make an appearance.

Are you serious though? Tales games have had some of the best character designs ever. Kosuke Fujishima is a master.

[Sinistrous]

damasta said:

I'm not simply talking about physical appearance. But honestly, he looks like an overly tanned kratos with long hair and glasses. Alright here's my assessment though.
Long droopy hair- Jade
semi-spikey hair- Asch
glasses- Jade
Hair color- Kratos
Mentor character- Kratos
Critic of protagonist- Jade
Prettyboy to the core- ALL

And on top of that, Symphonia fans are going to want a Kratos type character. This could be Namco's attempt to bring him back since most likely Kratos will NOT be playable even if he does make an appearance.

Dude, we barely know ANYTHING about the character's personality at this point; game's not even out. Art design is all we have to go off of. He looks way too young to resemble Kratos or Jade. Honestly, let's just compare the two off some pictures:

Asch:

Other guy (Richter according to wiki):


The only real difference between this guy and Asch is how they comb their hair and the fact that he has really thin glasses that I barely even noticed before I looked at this screenshot (my bad). Dress differences too, big whoop.

I'm not saying he doesn't resemble Kratos at all and won't have a vastly similar role that ToS fans are dying for, but he still looks exactly like Asch. And that is laaazy.

damasta said:

Are you serious though? Tales games have had some of the best character designs ever. Kosuke Fujishima is a master.

Absolutely. Tales games are plagued with some of the most irritating characters I've ever seen. Half of the protagonists in ToS often got on my nerves, especially fucking Colette. Same goes for most of the other games I've played, though not to that extreme. Yes, the series has had it's moments (Klaus, Jade, Arche, etc. = yes) and it's not nearly as bad as FF X for example, but it's absolutely nothing when you compare it to the excellent character design in games like FF VI or Suikoden II.

[Dja Majista]

nocturneinbm said:

damasta said:

I'm not simply talking about physical appearance. But honestly, he looks like an overly tanned kratos with long hair and glasses. Alright here's my assessment though.
Long droopy hair- Jade
semi-spikey hair- Asch
glasses- Jade
Hair color- Kratos
Mentor character- Kratos
Critic of protagonist- Jade
Prettyboy to the core- ALL

And on top of that, Symphonia fans are going to want a Kratos type character. This could be Namco's attempt to bring him back since most likely Kratos will NOT be playable even if he does make an appearance.

Dude, we barely know ANYTHING about the character's personality at this point; game's not even out. Art design is all we have to go off of. He looks way too young to resemble Kratos or Jade. Honestly, let's just compare the two off some pictures:

Not really. The official site is in Japanese but it has all the character personality information I listed.

The only real difference between this guy and Asch is how they comb their hair and the fact that he has really thin glasses that I barely even noticed before I looked at this screenshot (my bad). Dress differences too, big whoop.

On a second glance, yeah I see what your saying. Green eyes, nearly identical hairstyle. But he still has glasses and his hair is still dark and spiky like Kratos. That and the personality profile better resembles Kratos and Jade. Though I will agree: if they did take an old character model to work off of, it would have been Asch, and then they would have added elements from the other two.

I'm not saying he doesn't resemble Kratos at all and won't have a vastly similar role that ToS fans are dying for, but he still looks exactly like Asch. And that is laaazy.

Maybe, maybe not. I still haven't found out who the character artist is for this game yet. I presume Fujishima, but who knows? I personally think the glasses make a pretty big difference, and his overly dark complexion is very contrary to Asch.

Absolutely. Tales games are plagued with some of the most irritating characters I've ever seen. Half of the protagonists in ToS often got on my nerves, especially fucking Colette. Same goes for most of the other games I've played, though not to that extreme. Yes, the series has had it's moments (Klaus, Jade, Arche, etc. = yes) and it's not nearly as bad as FF X for example, but it's absolutely nothing when you compare it to the excellent character design in games like FF VI or Suikoden II.

Well I can't argue with your last point cause I haven't played either, sans the four or five hours I put into VI. Anyway, I don't think that character design should be based on how much I like certain individuals; moreover, how much I enjoy the whole shabang, the package. the point of good character designs, for one thing, is to make them all different, so that different people can have a favorite. For example, Alex likes Luke; I met another person who likes Genis; and there is a handful of people on game FAQs who somehow manage to appreciate Colette. o_0. Bad taste or no, they still bought the game, and these characters are contributing to how much they like it. So varied personalities are important. Then you have all the relationships. Jade is my favorite character in TotA, but he wouldn't be nearly as fun if he didn't have everybody else to poke fun at, especially Luke.
Now furthermore, with all that said, I will admit that Namco has had it's failings in character design as well. Regal for example. Look on game FAQs, and you will find that just about everybody there hates him. He has very little depth, and it's as if he was just an extra character they happened to tag on at the end of the game. He doesn't have many relationships with other characters either (in fact, I'm not sure he even ends up talking to everyone by the time the game is over.) and the few relationships he has are simply flat. He's got Lloyd (not much there really), Presea (the most significant), Genis (a few retarded interactions), and Zelos (whom he seems to have some kind of hater's complex for). Granted, Regal is just an example; there are more. But the point is, the reason Regal sucks as a character is because he's just all around flat (not to mention his monotonously consistent overly dramatic dialogue) and he has no relationships worth anything.
But all in all, the tales series is pretty good about straying from bad characters like Regal, and at least gives us someone truly memorable with each game. That and the characters all seem to mesh as well as clash nicely, enough to make the relationships interesting without being viscously drawn out and irritating.

[Sinistrous]

damasta said:

Not really. The official site is in Japanese but it has all the character personality information I listed.

...and to be frank, those descriptions means nothing. Those are roles and basic backstory, not exactly personality profiles. Even if they were such things, it would still be irrelevant. What matters is what's brought to the table, not what's promised or implied.
Comparatively, I can advertise an album with cover art and song titles that convey the atmosphere and imagery of an old Bram Stoker work yet when the music comes out it's very up-beat and cheery, not something very dark at all. Essentially, you can't judge a character's personality unless you've seen them in action.

On a second glance, yeah I see what your saying. Green eyes, nearly identical hairstyle. But he still has glasses and his hair is still dark and spiky like Kratos. That and the personality profile better resembles Kratos and Jade. Though I will agree: if they did take an old character model to work off of, it would have been Asch, and then they would have added elements from the other two.

Just to nitpick a bit (lol), those personality traits you mentioned are pretty broad. Kratos was a mentor character sure, but so was Jade (Asch too to an extent). All of them oft criticized the protagonist as well. On top of that, those are more like roles again. Except for prettyboy-ism, but we're talking about a jRPG here!

I personally think the glasses make a pretty big difference, and his overly dark complexion is very contrary to Asch.

Haha, "very contrary to Asch" would be more like him turning into that blue chick from Mass Effect. Dropping the shader a bit on his skin texture? Not so much. Besides, with all that bloom, you're barely able to tell (ah the bloom - another point I've been slacking on)!

Again with the glasses though, I wouldn't say they're particularly noteworthy. I thought the guy had a tattooed face until you pointed out the specs!

Well I can't argue with your last point cause I haven't played either, sans the four or five hours I put into VI. Anyway, I don't think that character design should be based on how much I like certain individuals; moreover, how much I enjoy the whole shabang, the package. the point of good character designs, for one thing, is to make them all different, so that different people can have a favorite.
-snip-
Then you have all the relationships. Jade is my favorite character in TotA, but he wouldn't be nearly as fun if he didn't have everybody else to poke fun at, especially Luke.
-snippity snips-
That and the characters all seem to mesh as well as clash nicely, enough to make the relationships interesting without being viscously drawn out and irritating.

If you wanted to, you could argue that the story is just another aspect of character design. Yes, variation between characters and their relationships carry some real weight in character design, but let's step back a bit.

I like a character or find his/her/its design to be of quality when their actions make sense (who wants another directionless anti-hero?); when the characters maintain some consistency, display logical development (even if it's not apparent at the time - often especially so!) and carry some depth. Originality doesn't exactly hurt either. On the contrary, stuff like tedious exchanges, monotonous and one-dimensional personalities (yes, our failed Shakespearean actor comes to mind), and general haphazardness (more often than not anyway) will come to harm my appreciation of said design.

As an aside, yes, the art aspect comes into play but we're ignoring said element temporarily.

Also, just because I think Jade is awesome doesn't mean I don't think that Luke is an irritating twat. He is an irritating twat and I blame that on his childish, one-dimensional character. Do I get a nice chuckle when Jade or the Emperor mess with him? Sure, but you could get a similar and better effect with a good character! For example, Luke is certainly a better character than Colette. As such, I would enjoy Jade tricking Luke into wearing a silly hat much more than Jade doing the same with Colette. Yes, much of that has to do with character chemistry (our good colonel would probably find pranking Colette below him too), but my point stands.


On a final note, if you want to look more into what I've written on in terms of good character design, I'd advise you towards Suikoden II, which serves said traits excellently. It can also be played as a stand-alone game (i.e. you don't have to play the original to get the plot, though it helps a bit) and is one of the best games I've seen on the original Playstation. Probably the best console RPG I've come across as well.

[Yoshi]

I would love to play this game because I'm a big fan of the prequel.

Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games.

[Dja Majista]

I've beaten it twice now. It is pretty fun. What other Tales games have you played btw?

[Yoshi]

The only "Tales of..." games that I've played were Tales of Symphonia and Tales of Phantasia.

I would love to play the other "Tales of..." games, but I don't have the required system. How many of those games are on the PS2?

[Dja Majista]

If you are into the JP versions, there are a lot of those on the PS2. But I think the one you'd want is Tales of the Abyss. ToTA is a big general improvement from symphonia. But yeah, Phantasia is one of my favorites. Which version of it did you play? SNES, PSX, GBA?

[Yoshi]

I played the SNES version because one of my friends had it a long time ago. It was fun.

Well, I'll have to get Tales of the Abyss soon if it's on the PS2. I'd play the Japanese ones if the text ever gets translated into English.

[Dja Majista]

yeah ToTA was pretty awesome. I think the big reason why I like ToS2 though is replayability. I mean to be honest, all the returning characters are watered down from the previous game. Your two mains are a couple of nauseatingly predictable lovers, neither of which look a day over 15. Yet at the same time, the game doesn't seem to take itself too seriously. Many of the lines will have you laughing out of your seat from the shear awkward presentation, and the fantastic voice acting.

And here I emphasize "fantastic" . Just listen to Dirk here but don't listen past 2 minutes if you don't want any spoilers:


Manliest character out of all tales games, bar none. That said, everything else sucks, but the whole pokemon-esque monster catching system is highly addictive. The battle system I think is also a whole lot of fun.

[Yoshi]

That video really makes me want to play the game. I'll have to rent Tales of Symphonia or Tales of the Abyss since I don't have a Wii, which means I can't play Tales of Symphonia 2.

[warmunger]

I luved the 1st TOS game. Yes I owned a Game Cube. But now I don't own a wii, This game and TVC is pushing me 2 buy 1. I must witness a story that has Lloyd as a villan.