Fighting Games Sucks?!

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Apr 27, 2008 23:56:25 GMT -5 Psyquis52 said:

I guess I just don't mind the clones but I will say that if it comes down to a clone character or a new character with an original control scheme then I'd rather have a new character.

On the subject of MK Trilogy -
I don't think that's a good comparison to Brawl. The ninjas were a bunch of clones of two core characters from the first game. I don't think we have that problem with Smash Bros anymore. Not since they got rid of Dr. Mario, Pichu, Roy and suck characters like that.

I was just saying there were a lot of clones lol, some were more broken than others, but Noob was the best.

[warmunger]

You know, I loved the 1st Smash Bros. I played that game so much, if the game had wheels the would have fallen off.

But as the series grew it was just too confusing. There was to much shit every where. In a match I couldn't even tell where I was. and the fact that all you had to do was go and pick up items and use them rather than fight head up really turned me off the games. I found myself playing Power Stone. Then Power Stone 2 suffered from the same thing the later Smash Bros. did...to much crap on the screen at once

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I agree, not that the series became too confusing, it just wasn't the same with stuff everywhere. The first one almost tempts me to buy an N64 just for it.

[Dja Majista]

What? Melee was not much more confusing than ssb. Melee was generally a raw improvement on the N64 version. All of the new features that some may or may not like are simply optional. I mean Melee had all the nice flat stages the original had plus the crazy stages. That means you don't have to play on them if you don't want to.
I mean honestly the only time I ever get confused or "lose myself" is when I'm playing with three other people. But that's the same way as it was with the original. Melee played faster, smoother, and was simply more exhilarating than its predecessor. Granted, I love SSB, don't get me wrong. The temptation to go back and relive my glory days with Kirby gets pretty strong sometimes. I mean, those were the days. But Melee is still a superior game.
Why is everyone ignoring the fact that there is an item switch that let's you turn all those little extraneous objects off?

[warmunger]

Apr 28, 2008 23:45:35 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that there is an item switch that let's you turn all those little extraneous objects off?

Is that tournament legal?

Like if they held a SSB tourney the sanctioned matches would have the items "on", right?

[Dja Majista]

Apr 29, 2008 11:04:27 GMT -5 @warmunger said:

Apr 28, 2008 23:45:35 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that there is an item switch that let's you turn all those little extraneous objects off?

Is that tournament legal?

Like if they held a SSB tourney the sanctioned matches would have the items "on", right?

I have no idea. Why wouldn't they have them off? That makes more sense to me.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Apr 28, 2008 23:45:35 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

What? Melee was not much more confusing than ssb. Melee was generally a raw improvement on the N64 version. All of the new features that some may or may not like are simply optional. I mean Melee had all the nice flat stages the original had plus the crazy stages. That means you don't have to play on them if you don't want to.
I mean honestly the only time I ever get confused or "lose myself" is when I'm playing with three other people. But that's the same way as it was with the original. Melee played faster, smoother, and was simply more exhilarating than its predecessor. Granted, I love SSB, don't get me wrong. The temptation to go back and relive my glory days with Kirby gets pretty strong sometimes. I mean, those were the days. But Melee is still a superior game.
Why is everyone ignoring the fact that there is an item switch that let's you turn all those little extraneous objects off?

It just doesn't have the same feel as the original. I don't find the game too complex myself, but there is just a lot of shit everywhere with a stretched screen. That does get frustrating sometimes, not to say the game isn't fun. I just wouldn't play it seriously.

[Dja Majista]

It just doesn't have the same feel as the original. I don't find the game too complex myself, but there is just a lot of shit everywhere with a stretched screen. That does get frustrating sometimes, not to say the game isn't fun. I just wouldn't play it seriously.

I don't get this. The feel of the original wasn't necessarily better than the feel of melee. Melee was so smooth, quick, and responsive. I loved it. And "shit everywhere?" "too complex?" What shit? you mean Rainbow Cruise? How is the game too complex? The whole ssb series screams simple to me.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

The feel of the game is different, but we're going to have to agree to disagree with that one.

I didn't say it was too complex, I've played some of the most complex games, it's just not made for serious fighting IMO because of the camera's inability to follow what's going on for one.

[Dja Majista]

Oh yeah I agree that the feel is different in melee; it's better! ;D

I didn't say it was too complex, I've played some of the most complex games, it's just not made for serious fighting IMO because of the camera's inability to follow what's going on for one.

whoops. That's what I thought you said the first time, then I looked back and for some reason I only saw "It's too complex."

But ok, you're entitled to your own opinion.

[Sinistrous]

Youtube really is a breeding ground for stupidity. I wanted to rip on the guy too, but they have this stupid comment locking thing now.

Expectedly, he drops a few valid points in there, but he's too much of a child to present them in a serviceable way and he hides behind his noobishness as if that grants him some sort of leeway. Plus, he acts like there's still a lot of great games being released these days, which is of course hilarious.

His most obvious fault, aside from touting a glorified party game as the savior to the fighting genre (Smash Bros., which is really no different from Mario Kart and the like), is that he confuses outdatedness with the fact that he's just incapable of fitting in the genres market. There were always people who hated fighting games and the arcades; he's just late to the party. Besides, calling the genre stagnant or outdated is a lot like the pot calling the kettle black: what exactly did Smash Bros. do that was innovative?

I'm also going to have to agree with the sentiment that clones aren't really a problem in Smash Bros., even in the sequels. Sure, it's a lazy design decision but it doesn't really affect the gameplay.

[JACK-2]

Clones and crazy confusing levels killed smash for me. Melee is the best, but I prefer the feel of the original much more.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Apr 30, 2008 20:17:02 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Clones and crazy confusing levels killed smash for me. Melee is the best, but I prefer the feel of the original much more.

Amen, the feel of the original was just so good and right.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Apr 30, 2008 15:51:44 GMT -5 Sinistrous said:

Youtube really is a breeding ground for stupidity. I wanted to rip on the guy too, but they have this stupid comment locking thing now.

Expectedly, he drops a few valid points in there, but he's too much of a child to present them in a serviceable way and he hides behind his noobishness as if that grants him some sort of leeway. Plus, he acts like there's still a lot of great games being released these days, which is of course hilarious.

His most obvious fault, aside from touting a glorified party game as the savior to the fighting genre (Smash Bros., which is really no different from Mario Kart and the like), is that he confuses outdatedness with the fact that he's just incapable of fitting in the genres market. There were always people who hated fighting games and the arcades; he's just late to the party. Besides, calling the genre stagnant or outdated is a lot like the pot calling the kettle black: what exactly did Smash Bros. do that was innovative?

I'm also going to have to agree with the sentiment that clones aren't really a problem in Smash Bros., even in the sequels. Sure, it's a lazy design decision but it doesn't really affect the gameplay.

Yea, he made his argument really immature which irritated people. People will always have things they like and dislike. A person could make an educated discussion about why they believe God doesn't exist and have little to no flaming if they present it correctly.

[Dja Majista]

I'm also going to have to agree with the sentiment that clones aren't really a problem in Smash Bros., even in the sequels. Sure, it's a lazy design decision but it doesn't really affect the gameplay.

Exactly. I really don't see how the clones actually hurt the game.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 1, 2008 20:12:24 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

I'm also going to have to agree with the sentiment that clones aren't really a problem in Smash Bros., even in the sequels. Sure, it's a lazy design decision but it doesn't really affect the gameplay.

Exactly. I really don't see how the clones actually hurt the game.

I don't mind them that much, but I can see where it get's annoying because it shows lack of innovation.

[Psyquis52]

I guess none of us mind clones. What's up with that?

I do think there is an obvious control difference between the first SSB and Melee.

The thing is that Melee is faster, SMOOTHER (I'll get on this), and generally more responsive.
The thing that makes it different is smoother.
They smoothed it too much. The first was sharp and harsh. When you hit someone you felt it. In Melee you could pass right through someone with your sword at times and the only thing it appeared to do was increase their percentage.
I think the thing is the flinch mechanics changed. Maybe.

I don't know really. I think I might be talking out my butt now.

The point is I swear there's a control difference!

Also
There appears to be a power difference with some of the special moves.

Samus Charged Shot - in the N64 a fully charged shot was practically instant death. Now it doesn't even fly across the entire screen and you can shoot a person upside of 4 times without killing them. Ridiculous.
Jigglypuff Sleep Attack - I don't know what it's actually called but I know that it used to kill quickly and then in Melee it did OK and now it's nigh impossible to use.

Falcon Punch - Actually it hasn't changed at all. It's still incredibly effective and now that it can change directions in mid-charge it's excellent.

And what the heck's the point of all these stupid water attacks?
Mario's pump shot is just about useless from what I can tell thus far.

[Psyquis52]

I vote we hunt this kid down and kick him in the __________

[Dja Majista]

May 2, 2008 2:20:46 GMT -5 Psyquis52 said:

I guess none of us mind clones. What's up with that?

I do think there is an obvious control difference between the first SSB and Melee.

The thing is that Melee is faster, SMOOTHER (I'll get on this), and generally more responsive.
The thing that makes it different is smoother.
They smoothed it too much. The first was sharp and harsh. When you hit someone you felt it. In Melee you could pass right through someone with your sword at times and the only thing it appeared to do was increase their percentage.
I think the thing is the flinch mechanics changed. Maybe.

I don't know really. I think I might be talking out my butt now.

The point is I swear there's a control difference!

Also
There appears to be a power difference with some of the special moves.

Samus Charged Shot - in the N64 a fully charged shot was practically instant death. Now it doesn't even fly across the entire screen and you can shoot a person upside of 4 times without killing them. Ridiculous.
Jigglypuff Sleep Attack - I don't know what it's actually called but I know that it used to kill quickly and then in Melee it did OK and now it's nigh impossible to use.

Falcon Punch - Actually it hasn't changed at all. It's still incredibly effective and now that it can change directions in mid-charge it's excellent.

And what the heck's the point of all these stupid water attacks?
Mario's pump shot is just about useless from what I can tell thus far.

I agree, I have to say sometimes I think melee is a little too smooth. Brawl I think split the difference. When you get hit you know it, and the sound effects are good and strong. But maybe that's because I play as Ike all the time. Every time he hits somebody, you know it.

And for some reason, when I think original ssb, I think overpowered drill kicks.

[Dja Majista]

May 2, 2008 2:21:34 GMT -5 Psyquis52 said:

I vote we hunt this kid down and kick him in the __________

I'll second that.

[Psyquis52]

May 2, 2008 9:15:22 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

I agree, I have to say sometimes I think melee is a little too smooth. Brawl I think split the difference. When you get hit you know it, and the sound effects are good and strong. But maybe that's because I play as Ike all the time. Every time he hits somebody, you know it.

And for some reason, when I think original ssb, I think overpowered drill kicks.

Well, who could blame you. Every time I'm facing a mostly impossible task in Brawl I turn to Ike to get me through. He hasn't failed me yet.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Sounds like Ike is sexy. #duel#

[Dja Majista]

Sounds like Ike is sexy. #duel#

Second only to zero suit samus...

May 2, 2008 21:17:41 GMT -5 Psyquis52 said:

May 2, 2008 9:15:22 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

I agree, I have to say sometimes I think melee is a little too smooth. Brawl I think split the difference. When you get hit you know it, and the sound effects are good and strong. But maybe that's because I play as Ike all the time. Every time he hits somebody, you know it.

And for some reason, when I think original ssb, I think overpowered drill kicks.

Well, who could blame you. Every time I'm facing a mostly impossible task in Brawl I turn to Ike to get me through. He hasn't failed me yet.

Have you done well with him competitively?

[JACK-2]

I hated the clones because they were slot fillers. It's like the developers wanted to add new characters without the effort of actually giving them new move sets. It's one of the reason's I'm not into video games like I used to be.

Apr 28, 2008 22:10:42 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I agree, not that the series became too confusing, it just wasn't the same with stuff everywhere. The first one almost tempts me to buy an N64 just for it.

I thought I was the only one

I don't get this. The feel of the original wasn't necessarily better than the feel of melee. Melee was so smooth, quick, and responsive. I loved it. And "shit everywhere?" "too complex?" What shit? you mean Rainbow Cruise? How is the game too complex? The whole ssb series screams simple to me.

It is simple, which is why I prefer it. Less is more in my opinion. Many of the additions seemed like fluff minus foward B moves in Melee. Now it's all fluff to me with brawl. The stages in the original were simplistic and yet had enough going on in them to keep me satisfied. Melee's levels weren't too bad, but there certain levels that just felt to crazy: Poke Floats, Rainbow Cruise, Snowy Mountain. They took away from the game more so than added it.

[Psyquis52]

May 3, 2008 11:22:56 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Have you done well with him competitively?

No. No I haven't.
I don't play competitively and if I did I'd probably go with someone else.
The tactics I use with Ike probably wouldn't work against real people and if they did I'd just feel cheap for doing it.

Actually my brother and I played competitively for one week and then stopped after that.
We just felt like bullies. It wasn't right.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 6, 2008 21:59:33 GMT -5 Psyquis52 said:

May 3, 2008 11:22:56 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Have you done well with him competitively?

No. No I haven't.
I don't play competitively and if I did I'd probably go with someone else.
The tactics I use with Ike probably wouldn't work against real people and if they did I'd just feel cheap for doing it.

Actually my brother and I played competitively for one week and then stopped after that.
We just felt like bullies. It wasn't right.

That's why I don't like competition, you always seem wrong for winning so easily with the big egos there, even in card games. Which is why I just do my thing casually. I often find the best in anything don't even bother with competitions. Not to say that they are bad or anything themselves.

[Psyquis52]

Well, I'd never insult them mind you but at the same time I'm not going to say they're good.
I think they need to experience the game on higher difficulties than Easy once in a while. That's all.

[Dja Majista]

May 6, 2008 21:59:33 GMT -5 Psyquis52 said:

May 3, 2008 11:22:56 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Have you done well with him competitively?

No. No I haven't.
I don't play competitively and if I did I'd probably go with someone else.
The tactics I use with Ike probably wouldn't work against real people and if they did I'd just feel cheap for doing it.

Actually my brother and I played competitively for one week and then stopped after that.
We just felt like bullies. It wasn't right.

I just played one round online. And I killed everybody with Ike, and his giant sword. I didn't feel a speck of remorse, but now I do, for deriving pleasure from beating the snot out of everyone on the third floor of my dorm... I killed them all... and not just the men... but the women... and the noobies!!
/end lame star wars reference

That's why I don't like competition, you always seem wrong for winning so easily with the big egos there, even in card games. Which is why I just do my thing casually. I often find the best in anything don't even bother with competitions. Not to say that they are bad or anything themselves.

That's why you play online with no voice chat. you don't have to listen to the 12-year-olds screaming at you.

[JACK-2]

I don't mind competition if it's friendly, but now a days that's really rare in video games.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 7, 2008 21:55:41 GMT -5 Psyquis52 said:

Well, I'd never insult them mind you but at the same time I'm not going to say they're good.
I think they need to experience the game on higher difficulties than Easy once in a while. That's all.

I generally like hard games, and hard mode, if you do hard, there's no such thing as easy to me. Or Hard mode, because it's all you know.