Sex Before Marriage.

[Psyquis52]

Actually I was going to go all family goodness on the guy but it's hard to with you constantly interrupting me. #headslap#

[Marcus4600]

Alright, I'm gonna throw religion aside, though I am a former minister.

My first reasoning behind not letting your dick do the thinking is the fact that you're setting yourself up to be a jackass. You wanna know why your pecker doesn't have a brain? It wouldn't make a difference if it did or not. When the penis speaks for you, you need to find a better source of communication.

I know it sounds like I'm ranting, but here's what I mean. Lets say C-Master (That's right, you're my patsy for this one) Psyquis, Badabing, and Myself go to a bar to get a drink. As the four of us are sitting there sipping on whatever, talking about how stupid people are when it comes to comic books, and all of a sudden four women come in. Let's just say for this exercise, two of them are the wives of Psyquis and myself, and two are other girls. Know, Bada and C both make the mistake of hitting on the wives of Psyquis and Myself, and end up getting barstools over the head. Why? They weren't thinking with their heads, but rather with their wangs. Sex should never be the first thought.
(The reason I use Psyquis, Bada, and C are because they're the three guys I'd definately buy a round for.)

So, that's reason one. To sum it up, thinking with your pecker can get you into hell.

Second is this: Sex does not make you a man.

Why, you ask? I'll tell you. Any gutter piece of garbage with two brain cells can have sex. It's part of our design. Hell, I know drug dealers who get more sex than anyone. Would you really wanna say that person is more of a man than you? Didn't think so. Essentially, not having it is a test of manhood. It's a test of control. Its what separates the Conan the Barbarians against Maximus from Gladiator (because it doesn't get more badass than Maximus). Maximus was an honored man for the fact that he set a standard for the people around him, whereas Conan was a dumb brute. What would you rather be seen as?

Third is fairly simple. When you wait for marriage, it's another type of connection. Being a married man myself, and having had sex before marriage, I'll tell you the difference. When I was younger, and having sex with my girlfriend, it seemed like there was no connection on a deep level aside from our genetalia. To be honest, it drove a wedge between me and her, because I was wanting something more out of life, and she couldn't give it to me. I was boozing, smoking, and still couldn't find it, and sex sure as hell didn't help. Fast forward past the spiritual epiphany and go to when I got married. When my wife and I first made love, it was possibly the most affectionate and loving experience I had. It felt like we were connected on a completely different level than before. It's this sort of bliss where you forget everything around you, and realize how much you love someone. That you're willing to be anything for that person, and continue sharing those moments. It's a symbol of dedication, love, care, and everything marriage stands for. From my experience, that can't be achieved outside of marriage.

So, that's my two cents.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

marcus4600 said:

Alright, I'm gonna throw religion aside, though I am a former minister.

My first reasoning behind not letting your dick do the thinking is the fact that you're setting yourself up to be a jackass. You wanna know why your pecker doesn't have a brain? It wouldn't make a difference if it did or not. When the penis speaks for you, you need to find a better source of communication.

I know it sounds like I'm ranting, but here's what I mean. Lets say C-Master (That's right, you're my patsy for this one) Psyquis, Badabing, and Myself go to a bar to get a drink. As the four of us are sitting there sipping on whatever, talking about how stupid people are when it comes to comic books, and all of a sudden four women come in. Let's just say for this exercise, two of them are the wives of Psyquis and myself, and two are other girls. Know, Bada and C both make the mistake of hitting on the wives of Psyquis and Myself, and end up getting barstools over the head. Why? They weren't thinking with their heads, but rather with their wangs. Sex should never be the first thought.
(The reason I use Psyquis, Bada, and C are because they're the three guys I'd definately buy a round for.)

So, that's reason one. To sum it up, thinking with your pecker can get you into hell.

Second is this: Sex does not make you a man.

Why, you ask? I'll tell you. Any gutter piece of garbage with two brain cells can have sex. It's part of our design. Hell, I know drug dealers who get more sex than anyone. Would you really wanna say that person is more of a man than you? Didn't think so. Essentially, not having it is a test of manhood. It's a test of control. Its what separates the Conan the Barbarians against Maximus from Gladiator (because it doesn't get more badass than Maximus). Maximus was an honored man for the fact that he set a standard for the people around him, whereas Conan was a dumb brute. What would you rather be seen as?

Third is fairly simple. When you wait for marriage, it's another type of connection. Being a married man myself, and having had sex before marriage, I'll tell you the difference. When I was younger, and having sex with my girlfriend, it seemed like there was no connection on a deep level aside from our genetalia. To be honest, it drove a wedge between me and her, because I was wanting something more out of life, and she couldn't give it to me. I was boozing, smoking, and still couldn't find it, and sex sure as hell didn't help. Fast forward past the spiritual epiphany and go to when I got married. When my wife and I first made love, it was possibly the most affectionate and loving experience I had. It felt like we were connected on a completely different level than before. It's this sort of bliss where you forget everything around you, and realize how much you love someone. That you're willing to be anything for that person, and continue sharing those moments. It's a symbol of dedication, love, care, and everything marriage stands for. From my experience, that can't be achieved outside of marriage.

So, that's my two cents.

Very good post, so good that it was worth saving. Most of the time people having sex outside of marriage, even when they love each other, can't handle the sacredness it brings and it drives them apart. I myself have had lots of women like me, if I went out and had sex with each one when I had the chance, (including the married ones) it wouldn't help my relationship at all or say much about me. I don't see how anyone can say having sex with a person, and making love with that same person later is an equal experience.

The only reason I'd hit on your wives is because they're so cool. ;D

[EsteemedLeader©]

This is absurd. Esteemed Leader and I share a ridiculous fascination with Godzilla and his posse. (I think) You should learn from our heroe Godzilla Leader. He does whatever he feels like and look at all the damage and heartache he causes. (there must be something broken inside me about this subject because everytime I think of Godzilla's destructive nature I chuckle a little.) Even though it's slightly comedic the point is still a good one.

This has to be addressed.

First off, it's 'EsteemedLeader', not 'Esteemed Leader'. No space. Got it?

Now bear in mind that Godzilla was the "Folly of Man". Godzilla was a punishment brought on by the peoples' creation of the atomic bomb. So all the destruction and heartache that Godzilla brings, serves a purpose.

Death is obviously necessary and maintains balance, but the less people there are the less we grow, advance, and make more resources. If you were the only person left, you'd have lots of things to yourself but how far would the world advance? Next to none.

I object. The overall intelligence of the population would increase exponentially.

My first reasoning behind not letting your dick do the thinking is the fact that you're setting yourself up to be a jackass. You wanna know why your pecker doesn't have a brain? It wouldn't make a difference if it did or not. When the penis speaks for you, you need to find a better source of communication.

I have not made any commitment to not fuck until I got married, and yet I keep my drives in check. I have not even pursued sexual, or frankly any, relationships, even though I am perfectly capable.

Sex does not make you a man.

No one here says that it does.

When you wait for marriage

And what if you don't give a crap about marriage? What if you have a relationship with someone where you didn't have to sign a contract to prove your love to them?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I object. The overall intelligence of the population would increase exponentially.

And so would high egos and other things unnecessary for survival, but lets keep it basic. You can be the smartest, most talented person, but there's only so much one man can do, you need the thinkers AND the tools. A severly lacking population is as doomed as an overpopulated one, I don't feel this has to be dwelt on much. As 10 average people can eventually do more than one outstanding couple in the long run of things. You need the brains and the hands.

And what if you don't give a crap about marriage? What if you have a relationship with someone where you didn't have to sign a contract to prove your love to them?

Marriage isn't about "proving your love to a person" it is the highest level of commitment that symbolizes the strongest love a man or woman can feel for their partner. I myself (I know this wasn't my quote) mentioned that making love is definitely better than having sex, but when you share it with your lifetime partner and both of you are honest with each other, you share a piece of each other each time, you come together. Therefore it is sacred. Most young people don't understand that, married or not, and they just have sex out of lust and obsession, and its simply not the same thing, but more of ignorance. I myself am not naive enough to think that most people will wait, and to expect those who never want to get married, to never have sex. I'm saying there is a difference and a reward for waiting.

[EsteemedLeader©]

And so would high egos and other things unnecessary for survival, but lets keep it basic. You can be the smartest, most talented person, but there's only so much one man can do, you need the thinkers AND the tools. A severly lacking population is as doomed as an overpopulated one, I don't feel this has to be dwelt on much. As 10 average people can eventually do more than one outstanding couple in the long run of things. You need the brains and the hands.

For what? To do what?

Marriage isn't about "proving your love to a person"

it is the highest level of commitment that symbolizes the strongest love a man or woman can feel for their partner

Sounds like the same thing to me.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

esteemedleader said:

And so would high egos and other things unnecessary for survival, but lets keep it basic. You can be the smartest, most talented person, but there's only so much one man can do, you need the thinkers AND the tools. A severly lacking population is as doomed as an overpopulated one, I don't feel this has to be dwelt on much. As 10 average people can eventually do more than one outstanding couple in the long run of things. You need the brains and the hands.

For what? To do what?

it is the highest level of commitment that symbolizes the strongest love a man or woman can feel for their partner

Sounds like the same thing to me.

1. To survive.

2. It definitely isn't. One is a commitment you shouldn't put yourself through unless you are willing to do so. You don't marry to prove anything, you'll be in for a rude awakening. The only people who do that do it as a trump card, and end up unhappy. It's like having a child to prove you are responsible. Sure having one and taking care of it shows you are responsible, but you shouldn't have one just to prove it.

[EsteemedLeader©]

1. To survive.

I would survive perectly well if I was the last person on Earth.

2. It definitely isn't. One is a commitment you shouldn't put yourself through unless you are willing to do so. You don't marry to prove anything, you'll be in for a rude awakening. The only people who do that do it as a trump card, and end up unhappy. It's like having a child to prove you are responsible. Sure having one and taking care of it shows you are responsible, but you shouldn't have one just to prove it.

Alright, so what do people get married for? What is the reason for marriage?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

esteemedleader said:

1. To survive.

I would survive perectly well if I was the last person on Earth.

2. It definitely isn't. One is a commitment you shouldn't put yourself through unless you are willing to do so. You don't marry to prove anything, you'll be in for a rude awakening. The only people who do that do it as a trump card, and end up unhappy. It's like having a child to prove you are responsible. Sure having one and taking care of it shows you are responsible, but you shouldn't have one just to prove it.

Alright, so what do people get married for? What is the reason for marriage?

But how far would you advance? And if something happened to you to require the help of others... you're screwed.

That would be the main point of this thread, what is the point of marriage? You don't do it to have a bunch of money, or to leave your parents because they're driving you crazy. So what do you get married for?

[EsteemedLeader©]

But how far would you advance?

I wouldn't 'advance', and I would be very frustrated and probably suicide, but I could survive well enough.

That would be the main point of this thread, what is the point of marriage? You don't do it to have a bunch of money, or to leave your parents because they're driving you crazy. So what do you get married for?

You're gonna have to tell me, because I don't see a reason.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

esteemedleader said:

But how far would you advance?

I wouldn't 'advance', and I would be very frustrated and probably suicide, but I could survive well enough.

That would be the main point of this thread, what is the point of marriage? You don't do it to have a bunch of money, or to leave your parents because they're driving you crazy. So what do you get married for?

You're gonna have to tell me, because I don't see a reason.

Well survival could just be "not dying" which anyone could do for an unspecified amount of time, but would you survive successfully? No. And since one of our goals in mankind is to expand or grow you would have failed by not contributing.

And why is there no reason to?

[EsteemedLeader©]

one of our goals in mankind is to expand or grow

Damn it C, another subjective argument. It is illogical.

And why is there no reason to?

Since you didn't give me a reason, I'm going to have to assume that you can't name one.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

esteemedleader said:

one of our goals in mankind is to expand or grow

Damn it C, another subjective argument. It is illogical.

And why is there no reason to?

Since you didn't give me a reason, I'm going to have to assume that you can't name one.

1. So you are saying we are here to "survive" which means basically to not die? If that's the case why do we bother expanding our knowledge, and doing silly things like naming and removing planets.

2. No I've named several as with the people in this thread, and I can't force you to see a reason. So I want you to show me why there isn't one. Or rather why it's no reason whatsoever.

[EsteemedLeader©]

1. So you are saying we are here to "survive" which means basically to not die? If that's the case why do we bother expanding our knowledge, and doing silly things like naming and removing planets.

I said no such thing. You're putting words in my mouth.

2. No I've named several as with the people in this thread, and I can't force you to see a reason. So I want you to show me why there isn't one. Or rather why it's no reason whatsoever.

Alright, here is the answer as to why there is no reason to get married:

There is no reason to get married.

Now to demonstrate to you why that is good logic:

Say we were both looking at a table. There is nothing on the table. You turn to me and ask me why there are no cups on the table. I look to you and say, "Because, there just aren't any."

What this means is, that the burden of proof rests on YOU. I'm looking at an empty table, so you gotta put some cups on it.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

esteemedleader said:

I said no such thing. You're putting words in my mouth.

So if that isn't true, then do you agree that advancing is pretty much null with one person on the planet, because even if we did, who would it benefit? Noone.

esteemedleader said:

Alright, here is the answer as to why there is no reason to get married:

There is no reason to get married.

Which would be just as bad as saying the reason to get married is because you should, which is what noone on that side actually said, what they said is waiting until you get married to have sex is much better. That in itself could be an argument as to wait until you get married, because it brings the parters closer to each other on a divine scale, all which has already been said.

esteemedleader said:

Now to demonstrate to you why that is good logic:

Now to show you why it isn't.

esteemedleader said:

Say we were both looking at a table. There is nothing on the table. You turn to me and ask me why there are no cups on the table. I look to you and say, "Because, there just aren't any."

But if one person puts cups on the table and the other knocks it down because they aren't the cups they like, that gets us nowhere doesn't it?

esteemedleader said:

What this means is, that the burden of proof rests on YOU. I'm looking at an empty table, so you gotta put some cups on it.

But that would mean the burden lies on you since you claimed there was none on the table. But in fact the pro-marriage side said plenty of reasons and the anti-marriage side hasn't really said anything at all to my knowledge.

Secondly, this is an entirely subjective argumet and you can't really "prove" anything in this case. It's like asking me to prove why Chocolate tastes better than Vanilla, it just does. I can show you statistics to people who love marriage and those to people who don't. Doesn't make a difference in the end when one person won't change their mind.

[EsteemedLeader©]

So if that isn't true, then do you agree that advancing is pretty much null with one person on the planet, because even if we did, who would it benefit? Noone.

You kind of black-and-whited the issue. I said that I didn't care about the human race advancing, and then you said that I think humans are just here to survive, as if claiming to not care of advancement automatically means that I think just survival.

Truth is, I don't care about either. I don't think there is anything that humans in general live for. No meaning of life. I just know that I'm here, and I kick ass.

But if one person puts cups on the table and the other knocks it down because they aren't the cups they like, that gets us nowhere doesn't it?

Or what if your side put bowls on the table and tried to pass them off as cups?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

esteemedleader said:

You kind of black-and-whited the issue. I said that I didn't care about the human race advancing, and then you said that I think humans are just here to survive, as if claiming to not care of advancement automatically means that I think just survival.

Truth is, I don't care about either. I don't think there is anything that humans in general live for. No meaning of life. I just know that I'm here, and I kick ass.

My question was originally how far it would get since you proposed that limiting the numbers would be overall better.

esteemedleader said:

Or what if your side put bowls on the table and tried to pass them off as cups?

But they are still something whether or you agree with them. I've still seen nothing on the other side. You can even experiment if you wish and see how many people regret having sex early, and how many people actually regret waiting. You'll be surprised with the numbers.

[Psyquis52]

I'll touch base on one or two things here.

1.) Godzilla = Man's folly hence destruction. EsteemedLeader is right there but that doesn't make my point null. It just adds to it actually. Still it's always fun to bring Godzilla into a conversation.

2.) Sorry for the space typo. It wasn't anything personal. I was just typing in a hurry. EsteemedLeader. Can I just call you Leader? That's a long thing to type.

3.) Reasons to be married. How could I explain this? There is not a single person in this world that is more important to me than my wife. There was nothing I wanted more after dating her for a while than to marry her and build a life with her. To call her MY WIFE was important to me and it was (and is) important to her. Why? If you want me to bring for you logical points then I can't because you don't do it for money. You don't do it for sex. You don't even do it to reproduce. Trying to make marriage logical is like trying to make a woman logical. It's not possible. It's a necessity for us. You don't understand. One day you might but I don't expect you to. There's something missing there in you that I don't quite understand. I won't take guesses at it either but let me put it this way EsteemedLeader: it would be a very egotistical and self-righteous person that claims a system we've used since the start of recorded history is flawed merely because of personal perspective.

4.) It seems to me that you have a general disdain for life. If it's true I have no grounds to correct you on it, because I find it entirely too amusing. I will say this though: Suicide does not actually coincide with survival. :lol:

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

psyquis52 said:

I'll touch base on one or two things here.

1.) Godzilla = Man's folly hence destruction. EsteemedLeader is right there but that doesn't make my point null. It just adds to it actually. Still it's always fun to bring Godzilla into a conversation.

2.) Sorry for the space typo. It wasn't anything personal. I was just typing in a hurry. EsteemedLeader. Can I just call you Leader? That's a long thing to type.

3.) Reasons to be married. How could I explain this? There is not a single person in this world that is more important to me than my wife. There was nothing I wanted more after dating her for a while than to marry her and build a life with her. To call her MY WIFE was important to me and it was (and is) important to her. Why? If you want me to bring for you logical points then I can't because you don't do it for money. You don't do it for sex. You don't even do it to reproduce. Trying to make marriage logical is like trying to make a woman logical. It's not possible. It's a necessity for us. You don't understand. One day you might but I don't expect you to. There's something missing there in you that I don't quite understand. I won't take guesses at it either but let me put it this way EsteemedLeader: it would be a very egotistical and self-righteous person that claims a system we've used since the start of recorded history is flawed merely because of personal perspective.

4.) It seems to me that you have a general disdain for life. If it's true I have no grounds to correct you on it, because I find it entirely too amusing. I will say this though: Suicide does not actually coincide with survival. :lol:

Making marriage logical is like trying to make women logical, best and funniest thing I've heard in a long, long time.

Question. I know you don't have any children yet. But you said there was no person more important to you than your wife. Would you put your child on a slightly less important scale in terms of feeling by a point or two. (Despite you wanting your child to survive, since they continue you on). Sorry if that seemed confusing, but I wanted to know.

[Psyquis52]

I've already made it a point to myself that my priorities go like this:

1. God
2. Wife
3. Children
4. Family
5. Work

And that's how it works.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Where's C-Master in this list?

psyquis52 said:

I've already made it a point to myself that my priorities go like this:

1. God
2. Wife
3. Children
4. Family
5. Work

And that's how it works.

Is this biblical or personal? I guess your spouse would come first since you are like one and partners. But I notice most people put their child first, but isn't that setting the relationship up for failure? Because once the children leave, you are back with your spouse...

[Dja Majista]

I see marriage as something you do for divine purposes. So I would really be interested to hear a nonspiritual reason. If you don't believe in God it just seems kind of pointless.

[Marcus4600]

admin said:

Where's C-Master in this list?

psyquis52 said:

I've already made it a point to myself that my priorities go like this:

1. God
2. Wife
3. Children
4. Family
5. Work

And that's how it works.

Is this biblical or personal? I guess your spouse would come first since you are like one and partners. But I notice most people put their child first, but isn't that setting the relationship up for failure? Because once the children leave, you are back with your spouse...

Essentially, it can do that. When you're married, you realize that you can't live the other way. Though kids are important, they move on to other things in life once they move out. However, you live with your wife for the rest of your life.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

I see marriage as something you do for divine purposes. So I would really be interested to hear a nonspiritual reason. If you don't believe in God it just seems kind of pointless.

You haven't read the comments on this page? You have to say why it's pointless other than "It's pointless". Both sides have pretty much said that.

marcus4600 said:

admin said:

Where's C-Master in this list?

Is this biblical or personal? I guess your spouse would come first since you are like one and partners. But I notice most people put their child first, but isn't that setting the relationship up for failure? Because once the children leave, you are back with your spouse...

Essentially, it can do that. When you're married, you realize that you can't live the other way. Though kids are important, they move on to other things in life once they move out. However, you live with your wife for the rest of your life.

Well I guess it comes from the fact that your child needs alot of attention when he/she is younger. But eventually they'll have their number one, and it won't be the parent anymore anyways.

[Dja Majista]

You haven't read the comments on this page? You have to say why it's pointless other than "It's pointless". Both sides have pretty much said that.

alright. I'm just saying I don't see much meaning in marriage if God isn't involved but I'm not married so like psiquis is saying, it's something that can't really be explained logically. and from my experience, things like that probably have some divine nature.
That's just me though. when discussing the purpose of marriage, it would be difficult to toss aside the religous aspect, and still manage get the point across. I could very well be wrong though.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

You haven't read the comments on this page? You have to say why it's pointless other than "It's pointless". Both sides have pretty much said that.

alright. I'm just saying I don't see much meaning in marriage if God isn't involved but I'm not married so like psiquis is saying, it's something that can't really be explained logically. and from my experience, things like that probably have some divine nature.
That's just me though. when discussing the purpose of marriage, it would be difficult to toss aside the religous aspect, and still manage get the point across. I could very well be wrong though.

I see what you're saying, pardon me. I thought you meant overall. That does make sense though, why try to take the religious aspect out of marriage? You might as well just say you're like other animals and insects and don't *need* to get married.

[Dja Majista]

right

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

right

Indeed.

[Psyquis52]

My reasons for my priorities are both Biblical and personal in nature.

My wife is my other half. Her opinion comes first over all others save God's.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

psyquis52 said:

My reasons for my priorities are both Biblical and personal in nature.

My wife is my other half. Her opinion comes first over all others save God's.

Good point. What was the Biblical reason?