Is Smash the Deepest Fighter Ever?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Is Smash the deepest fighter ever? Some say so. How deep is it? Does it compare with the other greats? Discuss.

[Yoshi]

The Smash series is not deep at all. It's suppose to be a party game for players of all ages to have fun with. The Smash games have too many random elements to make it as deep as the more popular fighting game franchises, and skill isn't really required to win a match.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 10, 2010 18:52:09 GMT -5 Yoshi said:

The Smash series is not deep at all. It's suppose to be a party game for players of all ages to have fun with. The Smash games have too many random elements to make it as deep as the more popular fighting game franchises, and skill isn't really required to win a match.

You're going to incur the wrath for that.

And I know you like the Smash Series, which is what I meant originally by all sides agreeing in that other thread about the classic era of games.

[Dja Majista]

Oh geez, I'm gonna be so outnumbered here. And by the way, I say smash is a very deep game, by no stretch of the imagination would I say smash is deeper than all the games I've played and haven't played. And remember, I'm not talking about the original or brawl, I'm talking about melee.

I believe yoshi is referring to the party side of smash. You know, the 4 player matches, with no stages off-limits, and items turned on. If yoshi thinks that melee specifically has no depth, when items are off, the matches are 1v1, and certain stages are banned, THEN we have a problem.

[JACK-2]

Jan 10, 2010 5:51:09 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Is Smash the deepest fighter ever? Some say so. How deep is it? Does it compare with the other greats? Discuss.

IMO, Smash was the next big direction for fighters. In terms of impact it was comparable too SFII. Really ground breaking game and really underrated.

[Dja Majista]

Hell yes, this guy knows his shit right here. Nice.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 10, 2010 22:43:58 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Jan 10, 2010 5:51:09 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Is Smash the deepest fighter ever? Some say so. How deep is it? Does it compare with the other greats? Discuss.

IMO, Smash was the next big direction for fighters. In terms of impact it was comparable too SFII. Really ground breaking game and really underrated.

I think it was different and ground breaking, the N64 version had a special place in my heart. I'm not sure about it being on SF2's level of impact though. Regardless though I think some of the elitist classic snobs might underrate it, but in terms of all of the games being underrated, there are farrrrrr too many fanboys (probably about 13 years old mostly) that say it's the deepest, most complex thing "evar". Don't hate it, and I definitely don't think it sucks. I've rehashed my point enough though.

[Saikyo Kid]

Let me set the record straight. I DO NOT THINK THAT SB GAMES ARE NOT DEEP!!! I just think that they are not deep in the way that FGs are deep. The series deepness lies in other places. The SB games are barely fighting games at all, IMO...in a traditional sense. But with so many characters and SO MUCH MORE CONTENT than a regular FG, it is indeed a VERY DEEP series over all wit tonz strategy, it's just in a different way. EVERY SB game I have played was VERY FUN and literally addictive. I stole an N64 just to play the 1st SB..and Mace Knights, I admit that. I have not played SSBM yet, but my O.G. (old girl/mother) bought a Wii last week and I'm gonna get it and I'll prolly miss my 1st few periods of school because of it.

"So what if Link sux, I'm gonna kick ass wit'im anyway."
-Me-

[JACK-2]

Jan 11, 2010 2:30:25 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I'm not sure about it being on SF2's level of impact though.

Consider this, pretty much every fighter from the last decade has used SFII's engine as a base template: From button command motions: [D, F Punch projectiles, B,F P Charge characters, 360 punch, etc], Punches & Kick buttons of increasing strength, Life bar, Two Player one on one fights, Universal Super Combo, Basic level design and so fourth. While this template came in many variations, very few fighters completely strayed from this formula. This is why SFII is called "The Grand Father of modern Fighting Games". Because it's engine is the basis for the modern fighting game genre.

Smash built an entirely new engine and made a four player fighter fighter. The bolded is a very big deal. Now, I love Street Fighter with all my heart because it is my first major game. However, it's clearly a dated game no matter what people say. Even Capcom has stated that Street Fighter in their opinion has reached it's peak since Third Strike [Which was the Ultimate/perfect Street Fighter according to Capcom themselves.] The SFII esque fighters have reached their peak, since last decade. There is really not much that can be done with them.

Either way, my point is Smash is the future of fighters.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 11, 2010 5:53:54 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Jan 11, 2010 2:30:25 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I'm not sure about it being on SF2's level of impact though.

Consider this, pretty much every fighter from the last decade has used SFII's engine as a base template: From button command motions: [D, F Punch projectiles, B,F P Charge characters, 360 punch, etc], Punches & Kick buttons of increasing strength, Life bar, Two Player one on one fights, Universal Super Combo, Basic level design and so fourth. While this template came in many variations, very few fighters completely strayed from this formula. This is why SFII is called "The Grand Father of modern Fighting Games". Because it's engine is the basis for the modern fighting game genre.

Smash built an entirely new engine and made a four player fighter fighter. The bolded is a very big deal. Now, I love Street Fighter with all my heart because it is my first major game. However, it's clearly a dated game no matter what people say. Even Capcom has stated that Street Fighter in their opinion has reached it's peak since Third Strike [Which was the Ultimate/perfect Street Fighter according to Capcom themselves.] The SFII esque fighters have reached their peak, since last decade. There is really not much that can be done with them.

Either way, my point is Smash is the future of fighters.

The SF fighting engine was already the old thing when 3d fighters came out, and Smash has had is impact, I was more or less talking about the depth of things and how people make it seem. In the end of the day to play it competitively it is flat stages with one on one play and no weapons, similar to sf style (with different mechanics) they are different games, I agree there.

[JACK-2]

I see what you're saying, but that's bound to happen since smash was built primarily as a party game. Those elements are bound to interfere with competitive play.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 12, 2010 22:59:55 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I see what you're saying, but that's bound to happen since smash was built primarily as a party game. Those elements are bound to interfere with competitive play.

Well that pretty much sums it up what I was saying, the developers themselves watered it down because they never intended it to be that such game, tourneyfags were ruining it for everyone.

But any game can be competitive, Yu-Gi-Oh, Solitaire, Minesweeper, Battletoads, but some games aren't suited for high level competitive play in their genre. Smash is considered that way for a lot of the hardcore fans, because of the glitches (melee anyways). It is accidentally that way. Now it could be made to be a hardcore fighting game with the intents of such with more systems and balance, but the developers won't make it that way unless someone else takes over. Nothing wrong with playing it competitively though, or any game.

I guess what I'm trying to say is... I hate tourneyfags.