A question...

[warmunger]

For all the Atheist out there...

How does it feel knowing that a person can kill your family and continue to sin their whole life and never truly be punished?

Am I wrong, am I right, If there is no God or Devil who decides those things and what do you see as true punishment?

Since their is no God, what is the point of sustaining "good" behavior?


Doesn't the fact that there is no God and every thing came to be in the Big Bang cheapen the value of life?

Any thoughts?

[Magic attack]

warmunger said:

For all the Atheist out there...

I am not doing anything, so I will play along.

warmunger said:

How does it feel knowing that a person can kill your family and continue to sin their whole life and never truly be punished?

This is a very depressing scenario to think about, but it is what it is.

I feel the same way that any human would, that no punishment would bring back my family. I also feel that there is no punishment that will ease the pain from the loss of a loved one. That includes any type of afterlife punishment as well.

warmunger said:

Am I wrong, am I right, If there is no God or Devil who decides those things and what do you see as true punishment?

Are you wrong or right about what?

We have the government set up to make decisions of what is right and wrong in today's society. The government also decides the punishment and also the carrying out of said punishment.


We haven't used the eye for an eye series of justice in a long time. But then again revenge doesn't solve anything, it usually makes things worse.

warmunger said:

Since their is no God, what is the point of sustaining "good" behavior?

Well, there are still laws to obey. Murder, rape, theft are all against the law. Someone that goes through with one of those crimes has to deal with the avoiding the police as well as their own conscience.

But then there are things that "religious" people consider "good" behavior-

Taking the lord's name in vain. I say it every day, and think nothing of it.

warmunger said:

Doesn't the fact that there is no God and every thing came to be in the Big Bang cheapen the value of life?

Nope, life is what you make of it.

warmunger said:

Any thoughts?

Not a bad series of questions.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

shakezula said:

warmunger said:

For all the Atheist out there...

I am not doing anything, so I will play along.





This is a very depressing scenario to think about, but it is what it is.

I feel the same way that any human would, that no punishment would bring back my family. I also feel that there is no punishment that will ease the pain from the loss of a loved one. That includes any type of afterlife punishment as well.




Are you wrong or right about what?

We have the government set up to make decisions of what is right and wrong in today's society. The government also decides the punishment and also the carrying out of said punishment.


We haven't used the eye for an eye series of justice in a long time. But then again revenge doesn't solve anything, it usually makes things worse.




Well, there are still laws to obey. Murder, rape, theft are all against the law. Someone that goes through with one of those crimes has to deal with the avoiding the police as well as their own conscience.

But then there are things that "religious" people consider "good" behavior-

Taking the lord's name in vain. I say it every day, and think nothing of it.





Nope, life is what you make of it.

warmunger said:

Any thoughts?

Not a bad series of questions.

How does it feel to believe that someone can kill your family and never be punished should have been the question.

[warmunger]

Is it right 2 let the government 2 decide right and wrong. They r humans just like us. And is going 2 prison really a punishment? U could just kill ur self and since there is no god or devil it seems 2 b an ez way out.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

Is it right 2 let the government 2 decide right and wrong. They r humans just like us. And is going 2 prison really a punishment? U could just kill ur self and since there is no god or devil it seems 2 b an ez way out.

Well the government was built off of a culmination of our own beliefs, many of which stem from religion anyways.

[warmunger]

I dont think the goverenment works in the peoples favor any more. Besides i think afterlife punishment is perfect seeing how it lasts 4 eternity rather than part of a life time.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

I dont think the goverenment works in the peoples favor any more. Besides i think afterlife punishment is perfect seeing how it lasts 4 eternity rather than part of a life time.

They still have their own motives but it really can't exist without the people.

[Magic attack]

warmunger said:

Is it right 2 let the government 2 decide right and wrong. They r humans just like us.

That is true, they are human. But what laws, of what is right and wrong, do you feel that the government have wrong?

warmunger said:

And is going 2 prison really a punishment?

Not being insulting, but it seems that you probably haven't visited one of our finer penitentiaries. While I have to admit to not being in one either, I do have friends and relatives that have been. It really is a punishment, as you lose your freedom. All the things you take for granted... ie going to the mall, or shooting over to your friends place. That all stops. It isn't that great a place. Not to mention how it makes your loved ones feel while you are in there.

warmunger said:

U could just kill ur self and since there is no god or devil it seems 2 b an ez way out.

Depends on how long you are in there I guess. But most people, even murderers, still value their own life. So most do not kill themselves.

admin said:

Well the government was built off of a culmination of our own beliefs, many of which stem from religion anyways.

Very true.

warmunger said:

I dont think the goverenment works in the peoples favor any more.

What makes you say that?

warmunger said:

Besides i think afterlife punishment is perfect seeing how it lasts 4 eternity rather than part of a life time.

If I believed that to be true, then I would agree.

admin said:

They still have their own motives but it really can't exist without the people.

That is true.

[warmunger]

admin said:

warmunger said:

I dont think the goverenment works in the peoples favor any more. Besides i think afterlife punishment is perfect seeing how it lasts 4 eternity rather than part of a life time.

They still have their own motives but it really can't exist without the people.

Yeah, they need the people 2 make fools out of.

I luv this country so much, but I do indeed hate it some times.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

admin said:

They still have their own motives but it really can't exist without the people.

Yeah, they need the people 2 make fools out of.

I luv this country so much, but I do indeed hate it some times.

What do you hate most about it?

[warmunger]

The greed and need for more money.

Our poor health care plans, only cuz people want money.

Inprisonment rate, very high, only cuz people get paid more then what they spend when people are in jail.

The gov's distrbution of drugs, not only does it cut down population, which saves money, but people have to pay to get it.

The Gov's distrbution of disease, cuts down on the population which in the long run will save money.

And the fact that you have to pay bills for heat, water, and grabage. Those things should be given to you for free.

There are a lot of other examples, wtf is wrong with these country.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

The greed and need for more money.

Our poor health care plans, only cuz people want money.

Inprisonment rate, very high, only cuz people get paid more then what they spend when people are in jail.

The gov's distrbution of drugs, not only does it cut down population, which saves money, but people have to pay to get it.

The Gov's distrbution of disease, cuts down on the population which in the long run will save money.

And the fact that you have to pay bills for heat, water, and grabage. Those things should be given to you for free.

There are a lot of other examples, wtf is wrong with these country.

Distribution of disease, give me an example so we are on the same page.

With imprisonment are you saying the prisoners get paid more? Because either way prisoners aren't a cheap solution.

[warmunger]

admin said:

warmunger said:

quote] Distribution of disease, give me an example so we are on the same page.

With imprisonment are you saying the prisoners get paid more? Because either way prisoners aren't a cheap solution.

AIDS

For every person put in prison, they save money. They only say they don't so that it seems that the government isn't making a profit off the prisoners. Like retirement checks and health care, you won't have to worry about any of that because they are in jail. No pay checks to pay out cuz you don't get paid in jail, well you do some times but only like $5 a month, and the prisoners are out there doing what a man would normally get paid $900 a month for.

And the prisons aint being maintained properly, and they don't get feed well. And you don't have to pay for the property the prison sits on.

So really...how much money is put into a shit hole prison? (there are good prisons for rich folk) Not alot.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

AIDS

Explain this a bit deeper.

For every person put in prison, they save money. They only say they don't so that it seems that the government isn't making a profit off the prisoners. Like retirement checks and health care, you won't have to worry about any of that because they are in jail. No pay checks to pay out cuz you don't get paid in jail, well you do some times but only like $5 a month, and the prisoners are out there doing what a man would normally get paid $900 a month for.

Putting people in prison for mild reasons isn't really a cheap and cost effective solution. We the tax payers have to pay to keep these people fed and clothed, and to maintain the facilities there. In some way it looks like they have it made, they just get a free house while we have responsibilities from day to day. Not saying that prison is a blast. Actually many people who've been in there long enough learn how to make money IN the prison by doing what they were doing out of prison, i.e selling drugs. And many have messed up records after that and just wind up in there. Putting people in prison without looking at their future is really just a poor solution that is eating away at our money no differently than the war.

And the prisons aint being maintained properly, and they don't get feed well. And you don't have to pay for the property the prison sits on.

They could be taken care of better, I won't argue that. But keeping them there isn't free.

So really...how much money is put into a shit hole prison? (there are good prisons for rich folk) Not alot.

I had a discussion about this in our logic and critical thinking class. I will be glad to look up the statistics for you.

[warmunger]

www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_1597.shtml
Check this link on the MAN MADE disease that is AIDS.

(This was info was taken from the Minnesota Daily and The Pitt News)

Incarceration for profit

Sadly, what's bad for youth and immigrants has become good for business - particularly companies such as the Corrections Corporation of America and the Geo Group (formerly Wackenhut Corrections) that operate prisons.

These firms use their considerable political influence not only to win lucrative contracts but also to insure a steady supply of bodies through the passage of mandatory minimum sentences and contracts with federal agencies such as the U.S. Marshal Service and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

Beyond the moral dilemma posed by putting people in prison for money, it is increasingly clear that prison operators have a sordid history - including increased rates of inmate and guard violence.

Criminologist James Austin found that prisons have 49 percent to 65 percent higher rates of violence against both inmates and guards. These effects largely come from cost-saving measures implemented to ensure a profit is made, such as cutting the number guards as well as their pay, and trimming programs for education and rehabilitation.

Education versus incarceration

At a time when administrators have to beg for scraps of funding increases reserved for expanding university systems, funding for prison expansion seems endless.

So it would seem odd that universities, especially in a time of tight budgets, would repeatedly do business with companies that directly finance prison construction. But that's exactly what hundreds of schools, including the University, unwittingly do each time they use Lehman Brothers, Inc., to underwrite bonds issued for capital projects.

Here's how it works: Whenever a school needs money it doesn't have for a major project, such as construction of a building or renovations, it issues a bond underwritten by a company like Lehman for a substantial fee. These bonds and the underwriting fees are paid back through student tuition and fees, so students are directly pouring millions of dollars into Lehman paying back several bonds.

At the same time, Lehman has used its substantial influence to become the largest financier of for-profit prison corporations. Lehman has arranged deals for the three largest private prison corporations - the Corrections Corporation of America, the Geo Group and the Wackenhut Corp. (together worth more than $1 billion) - and in the process helped keep the troubled industry afloat.

Students nationwide, including those at the University, do and should continue to pressure their universities to sever ties with Lehman until it agrees to stop financing private prison corporations.

How can a company profit by putting people in jail? CCA operates in different ways. Sometimes it takes over an existing prison facility and runs it. In other instances it builds completely new prisons. When deciding where to build a prison, the corporation looks for communities that are desperate for jobs and money, and exploits their economic need.

One example of such community exploitation comes from nearby Youngstown, Ohio. Youngstown has been desperate for any kind of economic development since the decline of the steel industry.

The Northeast Ohio Correctional Center opened there in 1997. Since then, the community has had to deal with inmate escapes and outbreaks of violence that were poorly handled by inexperienced and underpaid guards. Furthermore, CCA broke its contract with the city by bringing in maximum-security inmates. The inmates were imported from a Washington, D.C., prison and were described by a Department of Corrections official there as "young, aggressive and violent"

According to an article in the May/June 2000 issue of Mother Jones magazine, Youngstown mayor George McKelvey later said, "Knowing what I know now, I would never have allowed CCA to build a prison here."

Other CCA prisons are run in the same way, with profits for shareholders taking precedence over the safety and well-being of inmates and the communities where the prisons are located. In Texas, prisoners escaped from a motel that was being used as a makeshift jail. In a South Carolina facility for juvenile offenders, young people were literally tied up and beaten. At a Colorado prison, a few female guards were left alone with hundreds of male prisoners. They were forced to have sex in exchange for protection.

Escapes happen regularly. During a four-year period, 79 inmates escaped from CCA facilities across the country. During this same time, there were only nine escapes from California state prisons, which hold more than twice as many prisoners.

Some argue that privatized prisons are a necessary and money-saving solution to overcrowded government-run jails. But in reality for-profit prisons simply cut back on things like security, training for guards and medical care for inmates, then pocket the profits. Because the company running the prison is driven by profit, the savings aren't even passed on to taxpayers.

Many Pitt students are demanding that the University sever its ties with Sodexho Marriott, and cancel its contract when it comes up for renewal next year. Sodexho contracts its services at almost 30 schools around the country, so this fight has taken place at other schools as well. At SUNY Albany, student protests forced the school to cancel its contract with Sodexho. Anti-Sodexho protests have also been held at other school's such as Ithaca College, Oberlin College and Binghamton University.

Bob Hagan, an Ohio state senator who lives in Youngstown, said, "When money's your main motivation, you forget one major lesson: that these people are coming out. If you don't create rehabilitated prisoners, but you only create profit for your shareholders, then you have failed at a system that's supposed to protect society."

Pitt students should not be forced to support a corporation that puts profits over people.

Kate Giammarise doesn't like her dining dollars supporting the incarceration of other people for profit.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_1597.shtml
Check this link on the MAN MADE disease that is AIDS.

(This was info was taken from the Minnesota Daily and The Pitt News)

Incarceration for profit

Sadly, what's bad for youth and immigrants has become good for business - particularly companies such as the Corrections Corporation of America and the Geo Group (formerly Wackenhut Corrections) that operate prisons.

These firms use their considerable political influence not only to win lucrative contracts but also to insure a steady supply of bodies through the passage of mandatory minimum sentences and contracts with federal agencies such as the U.S. Marshal Service and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

Beyond the moral dilemma posed by putting people in prison for money, it is increasingly clear that prison operators have a sordid history - including increased rates of inmate and guard violence.

Criminologist James Austin found that prisons have 49 percent to 65 percent higher rates of violence against both inmates and guards. These effects largely come from cost-saving measures implemented to ensure a profit is made, such as cutting the number guards as well as their pay, and trimming programs for education and rehabilitation.

Education versus incarceration

At a time when administrators have to beg for scraps of funding increases reserved for expanding university systems, funding for prison expansion seems endless.

So it would seem odd that universities, especially in a time of tight budgets, would repeatedly do business with companies that directly finance prison construction. But that's exactly what hundreds of schools, including the University, unwittingly do each time they use Lehman Brothers, Inc., to underwrite bonds issued for capital projects.

Here's how it works: Whenever a school needs money it doesn't have for a major project, such as construction of a building or renovations, it issues a bond underwritten by a company like Lehman for a substantial fee. These bonds and the underwriting fees are paid back through student tuition and fees, so students are directly pouring millions of dollars into Lehman paying back several bonds.

At the same time, Lehman has used its substantial influence to become the largest financier of for-profit prison corporations. Lehman has arranged deals for the three largest private prison corporations - the Corrections Corporation of America, the Geo Group and the Wackenhut Corp. (together worth more than $1 billion) - and in the process helped keep the troubled industry afloat.

Students nationwide, including those at the University, do and should continue to pressure their universities to sever ties with Lehman until it agrees to stop financing private prison corporations.

How can a company profit by putting people in jail? CCA operates in different ways. Sometimes it takes over an existing prison facility and runs it. In other instances it builds completely new prisons. When deciding where to build a prison, the corporation looks for communities that are desperate for jobs and money, and exploits their economic need.

One example of such community exploitation comes from nearby Youngstown, Ohio. Youngstown has been desperate for any kind of economic development since the decline of the steel industry.

The Northeast Ohio Correctional Center opened there in 1997. Since then, the community has had to deal with inmate escapes and outbreaks of violence that were poorly handled by inexperienced and underpaid guards. Furthermore, CCA broke its contract with the city by bringing in maximum-security inmates. The inmates were imported from a Washington, D.C., prison and were described by a Department of Corrections official there as "young, aggressive and violent"

According to an article in the May/June 2000 issue of Mother Jones magazine, Youngstown mayor George McKelvey later said, "Knowing what I know now, I would never have allowed CCA to build a prison here."

Other CCA prisons are run in the same way, with profits for shareholders taking precedence over the safety and well-being of inmates and the communities where the prisons are located. In Texas, prisoners escaped from a motel that was being used as a makeshift jail. In a South Carolina facility for juvenile offenders, young people were literally tied up and beaten. At a Colorado prison, a few female guards were left alone with hundreds of male prisoners. They were forced to have sex in exchange for protection.

Escapes happen regularly. During a four-year period, 79 inmates escaped from CCA facilities across the country. During this same time, there were only nine escapes from California state prisons, which hold more than twice as many prisoners.

Some argue that privatized prisons are a necessary and money-saving solution to overcrowded government-run jails. But in reality for-profit prisons simply cut back on things like security, training for guards and medical care for inmates, then pocket the profits. Because the company running the prison is driven by profit, the savings aren't even passed on to taxpayers.

Many Pitt students are demanding that the University sever its ties with Sodexho Marriott, and cancel its contract when it comes up for renewal next year. Sodexho contracts its services at almost 30 schools around the country, so this fight has taken place at other schools as well. At SUNY Albany, student protests forced the school to cancel its contract with Sodexho. Anti-Sodexho protests have also been held at other school's such as Ithaca College, Oberlin College and Binghamton University.

Bob Hagan, an Ohio state senator who lives in Youngstown, said, "When money's your main motivation, you forget one major lesson: that these people are coming out. If you don't create rehabilitated prisoners, but you only create profit for your shareholders, then you have failed at a system that's supposed to protect society."

Pitt students should not be forced to support a corporation that puts profits over people.

Kate Giammarise doesn't like her dining dollars supporting the incarceration of other people for profit.

I'm starting to read it now, comparing accuracy with time made, it is interesting though.

[warmunger]

My bad, i know it's alot to read.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

warmunger said:

My bad, i know it's alot to read.

lol it's cool.

[tshern]

Yeah, this is old, but I found this stuff interesting, so I'll answer.

warmunger said:

For all the Atheist out there...

How does it feel knowing that a person can kill your family and continue to sin their whole life and never truly be punished?

First off, the man will go unpunished the rest of his life even if God existed, because God gives him the bill only after he start pushing up daisies. You know, hell comes after death and so forth.

I can only speculate how would it feel to have someone kill my family and get away with it. It would probably feel approximately the same as having someone kill my family and getting punished. Punishing the man wouldn't make me feel any better. Let me ask you Christians a question: How does it feel that Crusaders executed, raped and tortured innocent muslims by the thousands?

Am I wrong, am I right, If there is no God or Devil who decides those things and what do you see as true punishment?

What are you implying here? That humans are not worthy enough to decide what is good enough a punishment for someone who has broken the law? If people are so stupid that they are utterly unable to formulate suitable punishments for criminals why aren't we letting them walk free and wait that God will hit them with a bolt of lightning? Oh yeah, because it doesn't happen. I suppose we just have to settle with making our own punishments and waiting God to tell us they suck.

Since their is no God, what is the point of sustaining "good" behavior?

Because the absence of God, surprisingly, does not remove social interaction and causality? You know, if someone lives like a dick his entire life, he will be treated like a dick. I, for example, refrain from stealing lunch money from second graders, because their big brothers might mug me in revenge.

Doesn't the fact that there is no God and every thing came to be in the Big Bang cheapen the value of life?

In theory, no. In practice, no.

Because every existing particle originates from the Big Bang, there is only a certain amount of each element in the universe meaning that there can be only a given amount of human beings, since our existence requires very specific conditions and elements. However, if God was able to great us just like that, he probably could create billions and billions of particles and humans. Abundancy reduces value according to economical theories. Thus, the existence of God would degrade our value, not absence thereof.

Then a more philosophical answer. Why would it reduce our value? Could you just walk around shooting people with an Uzi if there was no God as you wouldn't wind up down in hell? The fact that human being as it is today is a product of hundreds and hundreds of millions of years of continuous evolution and survival of the fittest seems a lot more valuable than unique than Bible's opinion of us being created, what, 6000 years ago.

[Dja Majista]

How does it feel that Crusaders executed, raped and tortured innocent muslims by the thousands?

It pisses me off that they all blamed God for it.

[tshern]

damasta said:

How does it feel that Crusaders executed, raped and tortured innocent muslims by the thousands?

It pisses me off that they all blamed God for it.

And I wonder why I typed it with a capital C. Anyways, people work in the name many things and horrible things they do cannot be justified by their cause. However, figuring that the Pope usually called nations to a crusade, I cannot help but wodner how utterly rotten the Christian world was at that time. Politics and religion make a bad combination, for politics tends to win...

[Dja Majista]

tshern said:

damasta said:

It pisses me off that they all blamed God for it.

And I wonder why I typed it with a capital C. Anyways, people work in the name many things and horrible things they do cannot be justified by their cause. However, figuring that the Pope usually called nations to a crusade, I cannot help but wodner how utterly rotten the Christian world was at that time.

That's just further proof that Christianity wasn't meant to be forced on people, but instead, merely presented. I think the New Testament is pretty clear on non-violent mission work.
As for the Pope, I can't say I agree with such tremendous power in a church given to a person. Nor do I believe that the church should be a source of power as is the government.

Politics and religion make a bad combination, for politics tends to win...

Absolutely. In politics there is a kind of power pursuit. Christianity isn't meant to be "in power" so to speak, but the bible can certainly serve as a guide for our leaders.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Agreed.

[warmunger]

said:

For all the Atheist out there...First off, the man will go unpunished the rest of his life even if God existed, because God gives him the bill only after he start pushing up daisies. You know, hell comes after death and so forth.

But once you die, you have nothing to look forward to but eternal damnation.

said:

I can only speculate how would it feel to have someone kill my family and get away with it. It would probably feel approximately the same as having someone kill my family and getting punished. Punishing the man wouldn't make me feel any better. Let me ask you Christians a question: How does it feel that Crusaders executed, raped and tortured innocent muslims by the thousands?

I can't say for sure cuz I really don't consider myself a "Christian", but that sounds pretty messed up.

said:

What are you implying here? That humans are not worthy enough to decide what is good enough a punishment for someone who has broken the law?

Well.....yes, It's kinda unfair to punish someone just cuz another human or humans BELIEVE it's wrong. All people have different views on right and wrong, what makes one persons views better than another?

said:

If people are so stupid that they are utterly unable to formulate suitable punishments for criminals why aren't we letting them walk free and wait that God will hit them with a bolt of lightning? Oh yeah, because it doesn't happen.

Humans don't let stuff like that happen because they want to control everything, that includes punishment and peoples lives. Everyone will get what they deserve all in due time.

said:

I suppose we just have to settle with making our own punishments and waiting God to tell us they suck.

Lol, "making our own punishments". You mean letting those who control you make the punishments for you and the rest of the world.

said:

Because the absence of God, surprisingly, does not remove social interaction and causality? You know, if someone lives like a dick his entire life, he will be treated like a dick. I, for example, refrain from stealing lunch money from second graders, because their big brothers might mug me in revenge.

Well that's you. If I knew that there was no God I would steal lunch money from second graders every day and if their brothers tried to retaliate I'd take their money too, through any means necessary (even if that mean killing them). And I wouldn't care cuz I knew that if the situation got to hairy (like being caught by the cops and spending life in prison) I could commit suicide and know that there is nothing waiting for me afterwards. No punishment at all.

said:

In theory, no. In practice, no.

Because every existing particle originates from the Big Bang, there is only a certain amount of each element in the universe meaning that there can be only a given amount of human beings, since our existence requires very specific conditions and elements.

But that still means we were born from an explosion that created everthing, we are no more better than diamonds or precious in animate objects, hell, there are things in this world more special then us and lack life.

said:

However, if God was able to great us just like that, he probably could create billions and billions of particles and humans. Abundancy reduces value according to economical theories. Thus, the existence of God would degrade our value, not absence thereof.

God is a supreme being and God created us in his image. It's nice to know that the thing that created loves us as well.

I would rather be created in the image of an omnipotent being than to simply be a rare mass of particles...like diamonds

said:

Then a more philosophical answer. Why would it reduce our value? Could you just walk around shooting people with an Uzi if there was no God as you wouldn't wind up down in hell? The fact that human being as it is today is a product of hundreds and hundreds of millions of years of continuous evolution and survival of the fittest seems a lot more valuable than unique than Bible's opinion of us being created, what, 6000 years ago.

But it still goes back to the fact that if we go by the Big Bang theory, we are just things...not living people, we are soulless objects with no real value. To think that humans were brought into this existence the same way as a rock in space makes me view another human as just some thing

[Psyquis52]

tshern said:

you Christians a question: How does it feel that Crusaders executed, raped and tortured innocent muslims by the thousands?

That was an interesting one, but why stop there?
What about the Inquisition?
Or how about Bloody Mary?

If you want to go on a tangent talking about people who killed in the name of God then we can do that all year but frankly I don't see the point.

I could list a great deal of crimes made by people who don't believe in God or crimes other religions committed.

Seriously though, what's the point?

Do you think the Crusaders really, really believed in God or just said they did?
If they had bothered to read the BIBLE they wouldn't have done that. Same with a all psycho Christians.

You can't condemn an entire belief system based on the psychotic temperments of people who only claim to believe.

Why don't we talk about Mother Teresa on the other angle?

I don't think it's necessary.

BTW I wanted to compliment you guys (especially Magic Attack) on how good you've been through this discussion. Normally people get heated and start blasting each other on this subject.

[warmunger]

psyquis52 said:

BTW I wanted to compliment you guys (especially Magic Attack) on how good you've been through this discussion. Normally people get heated and start blasting each other on this subject.

Tell me about it.

I mostly agree on what tshern is sayin, I'm just arguin for the sake of doing so.

At a lil place called KMC, a thread like this woulda gotten someone arrested.

[Psyquis52]

warmunger said:

psyquis52 said:

BTW I wanted to compliment you guys (especially Magic Attack) on how good you've been through this discussion. Normally people get heated and start blasting each other on this subject.

Tell me about it.

I mostly agree on what tshern is sayin, I'm just arguin for the sake of doing so.

At a lil place called KMC, a thread like this woulda gotten someone arrested.

Absolutely! They'd arrest them then castrate them on a bed of nails. #faintthud#

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

That's why I don't post there really anymore.

[Sinistrous]

Apr 10, 2008 23:19:24 GMT -5 Psyquis52 said:

Do you think the Crusaders really, really believed in God or just said they did?
If they had bothered to read the BIBLE they wouldn't have done that. Same with a all psycho Christians.

Oh, I'm sure they believed in God and whatnot. But bear in mind that most Crusaders couldn't read the Bible (the KJV wasn't released until the early 1600s), they were just going off of what the priests told them.

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Anyway, it's not like the Church was the only institution interested in acquiring the "holy land". The Crusades as well as the Inquisition often use the Church as scapegoats, but they were only part of the problem. In fact, I believe that the case for the Spanish Inquisition could be more accurately ascribed to, absurdly enough, the government of the time. That's not to say that the Church wasn't involved, but their involvement is often over-stated.

To the OP, there's a lot reasons to sustain "good behavior" aside from fear of divine retribution. Don't you do things you would consider good without thinking within the WWJD school of thought?

[warmunger]

Apr 13, 2008 0:17:42 GMT -5 Psyquis52 said:

Absolutely! They'd arrest them then castrate them on a bed of nails. #faintthud#

That wouldn't hurt much...due to intense meditation.