Tiers, Trends, and Bandwagon Jumping

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Does anybody else notice the disturbing trend with these tiers and bandwagon jumping?

For instance I find it absurd that people just jump on the bandwagon when people say anything, whether it's from a high level player or it just catches on. For instance people see health as the reason that Evil Ryu is "god tier", even though he stays the same and that it has destroyed characters like Guile who got great changes and benefit from the current universal changes.

It's like people don't look at the big picture at all. They just go by what everyone else says. Is it possible for people to think for themselves nowadays? I'm convinced people don't understand how game mechanics work.
Thoughts?

[JACK-2]

I think tiers are an easy and braindead way to rank characters. It doesn't really tell you much about the characters strength and weaknesses. Character specific match ups are a better way to analyse in depth match ups anyway. But tier tards stick to tiers.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 26, 2014 22:01:21 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I think tiers are an easy and braindead way to rank characters. It doesn't really tell you much about the characters strength and weaknesses. Character specific match ups are a better way to analyse in depth match ups anyway. But tier tards stick to tiers.

I agree. Matchups should be about character traits and tools and nothing else. These tier lists are popularity contests essentially, based on who did what or who chooses what. Stupid.

[JACK-2]

That's the problem with the fighting game community, too many bandwagon heads. I browsed the older usenets for SF2 and found the quality to be much better. Probably because the community was smaller and more game oriented rather a large social oriented bandwagon. Alot of game communities act like facebook now, it's annoying.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 30, 2014 20:42:43 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

That's the problem with the fighting game community, too many bandwagon heads. I browsed the older usenets for SF2 and found the quality to be much better. Probably because the community was smaller and more game oriented rather a large social oriented bandwagon. Alot of game communities act like facebook now, it's annoying.

I find the smaller sites were more about information and discussing tech. SF3, SFA, CvS2.

Nowadays it's all about fanboyism and bandwagon jumping and now it seems to be all about America vs Japan with fanboys on both ends.

It's only on Capcom places thankfully. I can discuss Kof, VF, Tekken, Skullgirls, and anything else without that nonsense.

It's a shame.

[JACK-2]

Capcom fanboys are the worst.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 30, 2014 21:27:11 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Capcom fanboys are the worst.

By far, it's like their brains are warped. They think that by playing the most popular game it makes them "the best" or something like that, when nothing could be further from the truth.

[JACK-2]

Your brain would have to be warped to stay loyal to a shitty company like that.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 30, 2014 22:12:15 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Your brain would have to be warped to stay loyal to a shitty company like that.

You think Capcom is overall shitty too?

I do agree they release worse stuff but then again the consumers just eat it up.

Another thing that still annoys me is how people jump on the bandwagon in America. I like how Asian players will pick whatever character they want and learn the game and play well. Americans are so big on tier whoring. They always have to have every little edge, even in a balanced game like Kof. Nonsense.

[JACK-2]

It's a shadow of it's former self tbh. Nowhere near as good as it was when it had most of the talent still working for it.

As for your point about asian players. Been saying this since SF3, the character variety in Japan is amazing. Everyone gets played even low tier, hell most low tier domination videos are Japanese players. IF you want an example of this just look at Japan Vs US 2000 in Super Turbo. It's basically O.Sagat all day in the american side. Yet, [and get this.] They still lose.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jul 1, 2014 14:51:05 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

It's a shadow of it's former self tbh. Nowhere near as good as it was when it had most of the talent still working for it.

As for your point about asian players. Been saying this since SF3, the character variety in Japan is amazing. Everyone gets played even low tier, hell most low tier domination videos are Japanese players. IF you want an example of this just look at Japan Vs US 2000 in Super Turbo. It's basically O.Sagat all day in the american side. Yet, [and get this.] They still lose.

No it isn't. And I'm still arguing with these morons.


That's the thing. People pick strong characters and still lose. What really annoys me is people use the argument "blah blah blah is used at a tournament more so they're the best". Ugh.

Worst, logic, ever.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

A great video!

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

A good comment I wanted to post:

"-- A lecture on the Daigo/ PR Rog debacle --

Sako dazzled everyone into thinking E.Ryu was a tournament viable character, and showed the world how you could anihilate opponents with him, WITHOUT realizing you needed a certain playstyle that required being very agressive, having masterful reads and high execution requirements. Not a character for everyone. There was a reason almost no one had success with E.Ryu before.

Ultra buffs for E.Ryu fooled everyone into thinking he would be now almost unstoppable, and usually smart players like Daigo bought the idea himself. He probably figured out that having massive damage output combined with his fireball game would make the cut. His #1 spot on Japanese arcades cemented his belief. PR Rog likely had similar thoughts, after complaining to no end how "weak" his char was. Here is what happened:

Daigo had the BEST fireball game in the world (Bonchan is arguably the only other one close to his level), and this was critical for his spacing abilities and match control. His offensive tools and damage output was respectable, but weren't on the high end of the spectrum. Yet, the aforementioned fireball game, patience and his trademark shoryu--> Ultra was enough for him to decimate any rival. This has been proven beyond doubt. What did he do? He traded a stronger fireball game for more offensive options, altering essentially the core of his game. Watch his match with John Choi, who ultimately eliminated him.

You can see that Daigo had the inferion fireball game, withouth being able to take advantage of his combo potential. If you can't inflict massive damage with E.Ryu, there is no point in playing him. Daigo once said Fei Long was a weak character because he was predictable. The same applies to E.Ryu. Once you don't give him the chance to use his cr. medium kick, he's crippled. For a talented player such as him, it was astonishing to see his lack of offensive options. He didn't know what to do, and, of couse, it didn't help his execution skills were not on point.

The fact that not even the god Sako plays E.Ryu on every match, should be an indicator that E.Ryu may be a fun char to play with, but he ultimately lacks the options to get through on a variety of matchs-ups. Therefore, it's less balanced than Ryu, so it's weaker, not stronger.

In conclusion, I can't see Daigo sticking with E.Ryu, and his performace at EVO may support that decision. If he really wants a more offensive char, he should simply go back to Yun."