Tom Brevoort on Versus or why DBZ sucks in Versus.

[JACK-2]

Feb 16, 2015 5:24:03 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I remember when I was big on drawing DBZ and you were the shit if you could do that. I had everybody copying me too.

Yeah, drawing DBZ or some anime was considered hot shit back in the days. But, I got older and these days I read alot more comics. So, I prefer more traditional art.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 16, 2015 5:28:17 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Feb 16, 2015 5:24:03 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I remember when I was big on drawing DBZ and you were the shit if you could do that. I had everybody copying me too.

Yeah, drawing DBZ or some anime was considered hot shit back in the days. But, I got older and these days I read alot more comics. So, I prefer more traditional art.

People thought DBZ was the hardest thing to draw, but now looking back it was actually simple. Most comic art is much more detailed while anime tends to be more simplistic and look more similar between characters. It's like many of the females have the same face with different.

[JACK-2]

Feb 16, 2015 5:40:36 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

People thought DBZ was the hardest thing to draw, but now looking back it was actually simple. Most comic art is much more detailed while anime tends to be more simplistic and look more similar between characters. It's like many of the females have the same face with different.

There's alot of technical flaws regarding anime. But, people don't wanna hear it. Most anime fans aren't real cartoonist in the sense that they don't draw or watch much outside of anime. They remind me of Katana fanboys who think it's the greatest sword ever. When you point out the technically flaws they go ballistic. It's why I left the fandom, that and it got boring. I still watch some anime and read manga. But, it's definitely not as big of a deal as it used to be for me.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 16, 2015 6:17:34 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Feb 16, 2015 5:40:36 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

People thought DBZ was the hardest thing to draw, but now looking back it was actually simple. Most comic art is much more detailed while anime tends to be more simplistic and look more similar between characters. It's like many of the females have the same face with different.

There's alot of technical flaws regarding anime. But, people don't wanna hear it. Most anime fans aren't real cartoonist in the sense that they don't draw or watch much outside of anime. They remind me of Katana fanboys who think it's the greatest sword ever. When you point out the technically flaws they go ballistic. It's why I left the fandom, that and it got boring. I still watch some anime and read manga. But, it's definitely not as big of a deal as it used to be for me.

Well they draw out of "fun" and fanboyism. Anime has a lot of generic style. It works because it's fast to animate, but comics are more detailed than the shows (especially nowadays) for the same reason.

What other flaws are you seeing?

Yea swords fanboys are the worst. Halberds and polearms were actually more practical most of the time, but history whether it's western or eastern just loves swords.

[JACK-2]

Feb 16, 2015 6:31:25 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Well they draw out of "fun" and fanboyism. Anime has a lot of generic style. It works because it's fast to animate, but comics are more detailed than the shows (especially nowadays) for the same reason.

What other flaws are you seeing?

Yea swords fanboys are the worst. Halberds and polearms were actually more practical most of the time, but history whether it's western or eastern just loves swords.

There's just a lack of self reflection within anime fandom. It's not serious, just one giant circle-jerk. Often to mediocre shows, which is annoying. I loving animation and comics as a whole. So, I don't care what country a cartoon comes from [You can't even call them cartoons before someone loses their shit.] But, I call it how I see it. lot of Japanese cartoons and comics are made cheap. Whether it's the lower framerate or same-face where the only thing separating two characters is hair and accessories. But, fanboys will say stuff like: "Well the stories are good. So, the animation doesn't matter". Even all the while claiming the animation is good. Also, if I want a visual medium with good stories I'll watch live action [which I do] rather than anime. Alot of the shows people salivate over are garbage anyway.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 16, 2015 6:37:44 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Feb 16, 2015 6:31:25 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Well they draw out of "fun" and fanboyism. Anime has a lot of generic style. It works because it's fast to animate, but comics are more detailed than the shows (especially nowadays) for the same reason.

What other flaws are you seeing?

Yea swords fanboys are the worst. Halberds and polearms were actually more practical most of the time, but history whether it's western or eastern just loves swords.

There's just a lack of self reflection within anime fandom. It's not serious, just one giant circle-jerk. Often to mediocre shows, which is annoying. I loving animation and comics as a whole. So, I don't care what country a cartoon comes from [You can't even call them cartoons before someone loses their shit.] But, I call it how I see it. lot of Japanese cartoons and comics are made cheap. Whether it's the lower framerate or same-face where the only thing separating two characters is hair and accessories. But, fanboys will say stuff like: "Well the stories are good. So, the animation doesn't matter". Even all the while claiming the animation is good. Also, if I want a visual medium with good stories I'll watch live action [which I do] rather than anime. Alot of the shows people salivate over are garbage anyway.

Yep cartoon and comics, anime and manga. We're saying the same thing. The problem is that people like the popular stuff which is usually kind of lame. Like the HST. That happens in many mediums though.

Animation does matter. You want a good show to, but why would someone want bad animation on a visual medium? There are some that are animated pretty well. I think Queen's Blade does a good job, and OVA's are usually better quality than standard 22 minute shows.

[JACK-2]

I don't mind the limited animation, because I used to watch stuff like Scooby-doo or The Flintstones. Alot of cool stylization techniques have come from using most limited animation that anime is famous for. But, alot of the longer shows have Direction problems and some series will go through 20 different animation directors. Also, alot of anime is adaptations or bad adaptations because they're attempted 1:1. But, because most shows won't take seasonal breaks to keep a time-slot they have fillers which are awful.

OVA's are the best format for Japanese Anime which is why alot of my favorite anime are OVA's. That or 26 episode shows.

I just hate Japanophiles which is why I never discuss anime anymore. Way too many stupid people in the fandoms.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 16, 2015 6:55:55 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I don't mind the limited animation, because I used to watch stuff like Scooby-doo or The Flintstones. Alot of cool stylization techniques have come from using most limited animation that anime is famous for. But, alot of the longer shows have Direction problems and some series will go through 20 different animation directors. Also, alot of anime is adaptations or bad adaptations because they're attempted 1:1. But, because most shows won't take seasonal breaks to keep a time-slot they have fillers which are awful.

OVA's are the best format for Japanese Anime which is why alot of my favorite anime are OVA's. That or 26 episode shows.

I just hate Japanophiles which is why I never discuss anime anymore. Way too many stupid people in the fandoms.

Well it's kind of like video game graphics. Newer games have better graphics, but the gameplay suffers. So style does matter. Older games often were simple but had a lot of detail vs just mindless cut and paste.

Lupin The 3rd had several different changes in the look of it. It can be jarring going from the very early episodes to the second season.

Too many episodes naturally leads to more repetition. Some shows can pull it off. That said 26 episodes tends to be short for shonen.

[JACK-2]

Feb 16, 2015 6:58:27 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Well it's kind of like video game graphics. Newer games have better graphics, but the gameplay suffers. So style does matter. Older games often were simple but had a lot of detail vs just mindless cut and paste.

Lupin The 3rd had several different changes in the look of it. It can be jarring going from the very early episodes to the second season.

Too many episodes naturally leads to more repetition. Some shows can pull it off. That said 26 episodes tends to be short for shonen.

Style definitely matters, you can have a visual dynamic action with very limited animation. Street Fighter II V the animation was a perfect example of this and I love the techniques they use to make more out of less. Though, I do feel they can stretch themselves too thin which is why I like traditional animation these days. TBH, I never liked long running Shounen that had 100 episode plus. Always been an OVA and two cour [26 episode] type guy.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 16, 2015 7:04:01 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Feb 16, 2015 6:58:27 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Well it's kind of like video game graphics. Newer games have better graphics, but the gameplay suffers. So style does matter. Older games often were simple but had a lot of detail vs just mindless cut and paste.

Lupin The 3rd had several different changes in the look of it. It can be jarring going from the very early episodes to the second season.

Too many episodes naturally leads to more repetition. Some shows can pull it off. That said 26 episodes tends to be short for shonen.

Style definitely matters, you can have a visual dynamic action with very limited animation. Street Fighter II V the animation was a perfect example of this and I love the techniques they use to make more out of less. Though, I do feel they can stretch themselves too thin which is why I like traditional animation these days. TBH, I never liked long running Shounen that had 100 episode plus. Always been an OVA and two cour [26 episode] type guy.

If you looked at the old Marvel shows like Spider-Man TAS and X-Men TAS the character models are detailed but they use a lot of stock footage and it's not as good as the drawing. With the new Spider-Man the style was simple but the animation is better.

YYH just hit over 100 episodes but the last saga was the weakest. The cerator had to make that one past his interest, but it's better than the Buu saga.

[JACK-2]

These days I watch alot more cartoons or appreciate them alot more then when I was in High-school and was in my anime phase. Granted I miss that era too.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 16, 2015 18:51:50 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

These days I watch alot more cartoons or appreciate them alot more then when I was in High-school and was in my anime phase. Granted I miss that era too.

I was always about mixing both. In high school I remember they had the perfect lineup on Cartoon Network.

Inuyasha, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Futurama, X-Men Evolution,etc.

Good times.

[JACK-2]

I've always felt more strongly about anime, but I definitely mix both. But, alot of the anime I like is very obscure lol.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 16, 2015 18:57:39 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I've always felt more strongly about anime, but I definitely mix both. But, alot of the anime I like is very obscure lol.

Like FLCL?

[JACK-2]

Nah, more obscure. Tbh, I've always been more into Japanese Video Games more so than anime. There's alot of crossover which is why I watch anime. But, Video Games for me is where it was at. So, alot of the anime I like are Video Game adaptations or remind me of old JRPG's I used to play. Here's one:



Very underrated stuff like the DMC anime as well. I also like the guy who made all those SNK movies: [Masami Obari] Works. I think one reason I like Hunter X Hunter and YYH so much is that the author is a big gamer and their are tons of Video Game references in the manga. So, the sphere of influence that attracted me has always been Video Games not really manga or anime. Insofar as Anime and Manga cross over with Video Games, I like them. I grew up with Japanese Video Game industry as they grew from 87 when they took over the market. So, there's more of an attachment. Stuff like Dragonball and HST sphere of influence is mostly manga since that's where the source material and most of the popularity comes from. I've never felt an attachment to the manga industry. So yeah.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

By DMC you mean Devil May Cry?

[JACK-2]

Feb 16, 2015 19:49:24 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

By DMC you mean Devil May Cry?

Yeah, the anime was not really liked [not that I care] by anime fans.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 16, 2015 19:51:12 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Feb 16, 2015 19:49:24 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

By DMC you mean Devil May Cry?

Yeah, the anime was not really liked [not that I care] by anime fans.

What was the complaint?

[JACK-2]

Honestly no clue. But, these people tend to watch junk anyway and I can't be bothered to listen to their complaints. The only complaint I had was like most Video Game anime the characters are always weaker and never show their true potential.

Most people in the west just like watching watered down anime adaptations of popular Manga series anyway. From the Japanese POV it's weird.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 16, 2015 20:04:04 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Honestly no clue. But, these people tend to watch junk anyway and I can't be bothered to listen to their complaints. The only complaint I had was like most Video Game anime the characters are always weaker and never show their true potential.

Most people in the west just like watching watered down anime adaptations of popular Manga series anyway. From the Japanese POV it's weird.

Many shows have characters fluctuate powers in between mediums.

That's nothing new and has nothing to do with the presentation on the show.

[JACK-2]

The presentation is fine, but I mean like in the Street Fighter anime they never get past regular Hadouken. Meanwhile in the games they have shakunetsu, Shinkuu and so forth. DMC is the sameway, he has no Devil arms and he doesn't use Devil Trigger until the last episode.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 16, 2015 20:37:03 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

The presentation is fine, but I mean like in the Street Fighter anime they never get past regular Hadouken. Meanwhile in the games they have shakunetsu, Shinkuu and so forth. DMC is the sameway, he has no Devil arms and he doesn't use Devil Trigger until the last episode.

Street Fighter 2v was awesome though in my opinion. It shows people just care about power levels much of the time. SMH.

[JACK-2]

The powerlevels don't mean much to me. I love V series and they were weak as shit. Yeah, powerlevel tards are the worst. The problem is alot of DBZ tards bleed into other fighting series and start shitting it up with powerlevel obsessions.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I understand why young children think it's cool, but eventually you just want a well done character. Power creep can ruin stories as well. Not that comics don't have their own insane power creep.

[JACK-2]

True, but I think comics have more PIS and Jobbing so weaker characters will win. While Manga has power ups and everything coming down to a pissing contest between stats: Who can destroy a bigger planet.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 18, 2015 13:11:59 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

True, but I think comics have more PIS and Jobbing so weaker characters will win. While Manga has power ups and everything coming down to a pissing contest between stats: Who can destroy a bigger planet.

To an extent they do for sure. But look at Superman at first and where he's at now. Many characters got overpowered in comics.

I mean Yusuke had his plot wins like Goku too. Look at that Sensui asspull. So much bs.

I'm not a fan of either tbh.

[JACK-2]

Superman at one point knew Martial Arts, but Comics are inconsistent because the stories progress circular way where powers peak and fall. Like the Simpsons, homers done so many things over the years because the series is so long. With Dragonball the powers just keep going up and up even when they don't actually gain any real new abilities outside of changing hair color. I prefer the comic system tbh.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 18, 2015 14:09:15 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Superman at one point knew Martial Arts, but Comics are inconsistent because the stories progress circular way where powers peak and fall. Like the Simpsons, homers done so many things over the years because the series is so long. With Dragonball the powers just keep going up and up even when they don't actually gain any real new abilities outside of changing hair color. I prefer the comic system tbh.

Tourqasm Vo?

One major difference is that you have legions of writers in these long running shows and comics so a lot of things change and you get different showings (especially with fanboy writers). One writer stuff tends to stay and feel the same. So I guess it's up to style.

Although Dragonball had much more variety than DBZ did anyways.

[JACK-2]

Up to the frieza saga DBZ characters had different "schools" of fighting and specific techniques. Once Goku learned Super Saiyain all of it went out the window.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Feb 18, 2015 14:33:07 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Up to the frieza saga DBZ characters had different "schools" of fighting and specific techniques. Once Goku learned Super Saiyain all of it went out the window.

Well I know Tien and Piccolo introduced a lot of the powers you see copy pasted in DBZ like flight and regeneration. Once DBZ came along it was generic but the Ginyu force had some neat stuff like Guido. Sadly it was mostly fly, punch, and energy blast.