Anybody Sick of Modern Anti Heroes?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I've been thinking about this for a while. Anti-hero "badass" characters are everywhere.

Now I'm not saying that everyone should be goody two shoes or anything of the sort. "Good always beats evil" is cliche as well.

It's just these anti hero characters have been done to death and they often get wanked by writers and fanboys and take up more screen time or get more attention. I believe it's that people want to be the bad guy without actually being "bad", so they get to be the anti hero instead and just do what they want. It's the safe way out.


When people say that they want a "relateable character" I think they're just justifying it. How is Punisher relateable? Wolverine? These guys are just wish fulfillment of "I can do what I want because I'm a badass.". Spider-Man is more relateable than either of them and he's not some brooding anti hero.

*Note that classic anti hero had a different meaning than the modern badass stuff we see today*. Spider-Man would be an anti-hero under the classic sense.

[Great Dark Hero]

I know I am. The funny thing is, I just got done watching a Shadow the Hedgehog review... a game that I absolutely regret playing for the same reasons stated above. The point is, that the a "amazing, badass, anti-hero" character gets rather drawn out after a while, and the game that I mentioned just now is proof of why it does not work in the long run. It becomes very bland, dull and boring after a certain period of time.
In a manner of speaking, the younger audience and lowest common deminator within a audience are into this sort of thing, regardless of how tasteless or strange it may be. It's a lot of pointless drama and unnecessary angst with these kind of characters. These types of characters will also act in a way where they do or say something completely negative, in an effort to sound "cool". I don't completely understand the reasoning behind why a lot of people do enjoy these kind of characters but it may have something to do with them wanting an "escapist" character rather than a character that they outright relate to. It is a very worn out trope, especially when it comes to video games, manga/anime and many other forms of entertainment. In some cases, the said characters (or the games that they come from) may end up trying too hard to be "cool" or "badass". To a person with the most common sense, it comes across as either unintentionally funny or just an element that is badly executed to the point where the more intellectual audience is like... "what?"
Then you get the fanboys... the fangirls... and the more of the lowest common denominators within the target audience of the franchise foaming at the mouth over these types of characters, even going as far as to write fanfictions (many of which consist of extremely bad writing and other disturbing elements that deal with whatever the fuck is going on in the fanfics writers mind).
This is not even the half of it.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 17, 2015 17:22:02 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

I know I am. The funny thing is, I just got done watching a Shadow the Hedgehog review... a game that I absolutely regret playing for the same reasons stated above. The point is, that the a "amazing, badass, anti-hero" character gets rather drawn out after a while, and the game that I mentioned just now is proof of why it does not work in the long run. It becomes very bland, dull and boring after a certain period of time.
In a manner of speaking, the younger audience and lowest common deminator within a audience are into this sort of thing, regardless of how tasteless or strange it may be. It's a lot of pointless drama and unnecessary angst with these kind of characters. These types of characters will also act in a way where they do or say something completely negative, in an effort to sound "cool". I don't completely understand the reasoning behind why a lot of people do enjoy these kind of characters but it may have something to do with them wanting an "escapist" character rather than a character that they outright relate to. It is a very worn out trope, especially when it comes to video games, manga/anime and many other forms of entertainment. In some cases, the said characters (or the games that they come from) may end up trying too hard to be "cool" or "badass". To a person with the most common sense, it comes across as either unintentionally funny or just an element that is badly executed to the point where the more intellectual audience is like... "what?"
Then you get the fanboys... the fangirls... and the more of the lowest common denominators within the target audience of the franchise foaming at the mouth over these types of characters, even going as far as to write fanfictions (many of which consist of extremely bad writing and other disturbing elements that deal with whatever the fuck is going on in the fanfics writers mind).
This is not even the half of it.

Did you read my mind? I think these characters are popular because it's an easy way to appeal to the masses. "We'll make a bad guy like Darth Vader except he's a good guy. Now people can be badass without any of the guilt."

Don't get me wrong the "good wins evil loses" gets old too, and I don't like the whole altruism concept. A good character is a good character, but as you said this is escapism. Not that it's bad either, but fanboys of anti hero "badass" characters like to cite that the characters are more relateable, when it is really just wish fulfillment. I mean Spider-Man is far more relateable than Wolverine and Punisher, so what's the appeal? It's the whole "badass" thing being shoved down our throats. Many of these people are kids or basement dwellers and this is their way of having power "I wish I was a badass like Wolverine, then nobody would mess with me."

This stuff really took off in the 90's. You had some well written anti hero characters, and then guys like Wolverine started getting wanked out of the stratosphere. Another problem with these characters is they push other well written and often better characters out of focus, especially on a team. Wolverine hogs all of the X-Men spotlight away from other X-Men, and then he's shoved on a million teams.

Raphael is all over TMNT these days for the same reason. The more they're wanked, the more popular they get.

Then you have fanboy writers/producers/creators who wank and even overpower these characters, like Akuma. He's a badass, and popular, and top tier. No surprise there.

[Great Dark Hero]

May 17, 2015 19:01:03 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

May 17, 2015 17:22:02 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

I know I am. The funny thing is, I just got done watching a Shadow the Hedgehog review... a game that I absolutely regret playing for the same reasons stated above. The point is, that the a "amazing, badass, anti-hero" character gets rather drawn out after a while, and the game that I mentioned just now is proof of why it does not work in the long run. It becomes very bland, dull and boring after a certain period of time.
In a manner of speaking, the younger audience and lowest common deminator within a audience are into this sort of thing, regardless of how tasteless or strange it may be. It's a lot of pointless drama and unnecessary angst with these kind of characters. These types of characters will also act in a way where they do or say something completely negative, in an effort to sound "cool". I don't completely understand the reasoning behind why a lot of people do enjoy these kind of characters but it may have something to do with them wanting an "escapist" character rather than a character that they outright relate to. It is a very worn out trope, especially when it comes to video games, manga/anime and many other forms of entertainment. In some cases, the said characters (or the games that they come from) may end up trying too hard to be "cool" or "badass". To a person with the most common sense, it comes across as either unintentionally funny or just an element that is badly executed to the point where the more intellectual audience is like... "what?"
Then you get the fanboys... the fangirls... and the more of the lowest common denominators within the target audience of the franchise foaming at the mouth over these types of characters, even going as far as to write fanfictions (many of which consist of extremely bad writing and other disturbing elements that deal with whatever the fuck is going on in the fanfics writers mind).
This is not even the half of it.

Did you read my mind? I think these characters are popular because it's an easy way to appeal to the masses. "We'll make a bad guy like Darth Vader except he's a good guy. Now people can be badass without any of the guilt."

Don't get me wrong the "good wins evil loses" gets old too, and I don't like the whole altruism concept. A good character is a good character, but as you said this is escapism. Not that it's bad either, but fanboys of anti hero "badass" characters like to cite that the characters are more relateable, when it is really just wish fulfillment. I mean Spider-Man is far more relateable than Wolverine and Punisher, so what's the appeal? It's the whole "badass" thing being shoved down our throats. Many of these people are kids or basement dwellers and this is their way of having power "I wish I was a badass like Wolverine, then nobody would mess with me."

This stuff really took off in the 90's. You had some well written anti hero characters, and then guys like Wolverine started getting wanked out of the stratosphere. Another problem with these characters is they push other well written and often better characters out of focus, especially on a team. Wolverine hogs all of the X-Men spotlight away from other X-Men, and then he's shoved on a million teams.

Raphael is all over TMNT these days for the same reason. The more they're wanked, the more popular they get.

Then you have fanboy writers/producers/creators who wank and even overpower these characters, like Akuma. He's a badass, and popular, and top tier. No surprise there.

There many important questions to ask when it comes to character design, inspiration and development. A character needs to be reasonably developed. Hell, the individual does not have to relate to them, but they need to be written well into a series at the very least. Why do they have this specific belief system? Why do the character have this personality trait? Why does this character act a certain way towards one subject but reacts differently to another subject? The fundamental aspects of story writting and character design. As for the what the fanboys/girls have in mind... In a lot of cases, there is a good reason why these people should never be in charge of any sort of script writting. This also goes for even the official script writters that may not have a clue about what they are trying to do for the character they are writting in the story. If a person is going to make a character like this... they would have to be as deliberate as possible.

Akuma would be a very good example to use in this situation.
Canonically, Akuma is a man who attempts to master his martial art, while potentially giving up his humanity.
Note; he is not "invincible" or outright "unbeatable" as the typical fanboy wants to highlight. He's just some really powerful maniac trying to master his skill in martial arts, hoping to track down other strong opponents for the sake of testing this ability. Recall the Shun Goku Satsu (Raging Demon), a technique that is considered to be extremely dangerous to the user and the opponent, implying that the opponent is dragged into hell for the demon spirits to essentially... chew their souls up. Apparently the move does not work on a consistent basis as it only worked on his former master Goutetsu and (technically) Gill (though he ressurected himself after the fact... why the hell am I speaking so much about the story of SF? It's not necessarily a good story line to begin with). This highlights that there are flaws in his capabilities, outside of the fact that he is a selfish and a relatively ruthless man at least when it comes to the conceptualization of martal arts. Game play-wise, he had low health (yet, Assassin's Fist actually elaborates on this in a clever way).  The general consensus is when a fanboy does take potentially decent character they... LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE to exaggerate his strengths. That is part of the why that atrocity known as Oni exists! The fanboys... and girls. And, the design decisions facilitated by Capcom. Akuma was not really meant for this sort of thing and the "Shin" Akuma concept was enough.

There there is Evil Ryu. Oh boy. (In my opinion, Evil Ryu was a wasted slot... the days of SFA3 were long gone already but...)
Evil Ryu was meant to be a more "arrogant" version of Ryu takng the same path Akuma was. The original concept of Evil Ryu came from a non-canonical Street Fighter comic book shortly before the Alpha series came into fruition. In most depictions of the series, "Evil Ryu" was just a silently pissed and unnecessarily angsty (is that a word?) version of a character that already existed. In SFIV series, Evil Ryu's characterization worsened to the point where he pretty much exaggerated the very points that you made. And, it is very sickening. Another thing that is tiresome is... "evil or badass-antihero" versions of characters... that already exists. Not only does it often end causing a lot of inconsistencies in a story line but it also doesn't do the character roster any justice. If one is going to create a "secondary super-duper powered evil" version of the same character, they need to incorporate within the character that is already in the roster instead of creating a seperate character. The same with things like Jin / Devil Jin (from the Tekken series). Evil Ryu in SSFIV:AE was... hopelessly obnoxious. In fact, his general presentation is juvenile! Something that you would definitely see on a some generic anime flick. It is generally a good idea to keep track of how the characters' are written in a story line. As you stated: Creating a pointlessly edgy "badass" character does not equal "relatable." It's bullshit. A writer and character designer needs to be as deliberate as possible when trying to organize entertainment quality.

Then there are other characters like Kratos from God of War, Shadow the Hedgehog (who has pretty much worn out his welcome in the series at this point, arguably anytime after Sonic Adventure 2), a lot of common anime "rivals," etc, etc...

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 17, 2015 21:15:02 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

May 17, 2015 19:01:03 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Did you read my mind? I think these characters are popular because it's an easy way to appeal to the masses. "We'll make a bad guy like Darth Vader except he's a good guy. Now people can be badass without any of the guilt."

Don't get me wrong the "good wins evil loses" gets old too, and I don't like the whole altruism concept. A good character is a good character, but as you said this is escapism. Not that it's bad either, but fanboys of anti hero "badass" characters like to cite that the characters are more relateable, when it is really just wish fulfillment. I mean Spider-Man is far more relateable than Wolverine and Punisher, so what's the appeal? It's the whole "badass" thing being shoved down our throats. Many of these people are kids or basement dwellers and this is their way of having power "I wish I was a badass like Wolverine, then nobody would mess with me."

This stuff really took off in the 90's. You had some well written anti hero characters, and then guys like Wolverine started getting wanked out of the stratosphere. Another problem with these characters is they push other well written and often better characters out of focus, especially on a team. Wolverine hogs all of the X-Men spotlight away from other X-Men, and then he's shoved on a million teams.

Raphael is all over TMNT these days for the same reason. The more they're wanked, the more popular they get.

Then you have fanboy writers/producers/creators who wank and even overpower these characters, like Akuma. He's a badass, and popular, and top tier. No surprise there.

There many important questions to ask when it comes to character design, inspiration and development. A character needs to be reasonably developed. Hell, the individual does not have to relate to them, but they need to be written well into a series at the very least. Why do they have this specific belief system? Why do the character have this personality trait? Why does this character act a certain way towards one subject but reacts differently to another subject? The fundamental aspects of story writting and character design. As for the what the fanboys/girls have in mind... In a lot of cases, there is a good reason why these people should never be in charge of any sort of script writting. This also goes for even the official script writters that may not have a clue about what they are trying to do for the character they are writting in the story. If a person is going to make a character like this... they would have to be as deliberate as possible.

Akuma would be a very good example to use in this situation.
Canonically, Akuma is a man who attempts to master his martial art, while potentially giving up his humanity.
Note; he is not "invincible" or outright "unbeatable" as the typical fanboy wants to highlight. He's just some really powerful maniac trying to master his skill in martial arts, hoping to track down other strong opponents for the sake of testing this ability. Recall the Shun Goku Satsu (Raging Demon), a technique that is considered to be extremely dangerous to the user and the opponent, implying that the opponent is dragged into hell for the demon spirits to essentially... chew their souls up. Apparently the move does not work on a consistent basis as it only worked on his former master Goutetsu and (technically) Gill (though he ressurected himself after the fact... why the hell am I speaking so much about the story of SF? It's not necessarily a good story line to begin with). This highlights that there are flaws in his capabilities, outside of the fact that he is a selfish and a relatively ruthless man at least when it comes to the conceptualization of martal arts. Game play-wise, he had low health (yet, Assassin's Fist actually elaborates on this in a clever way).  The general consensus is when a fanboy does take potentially decent character they... LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE to exaggerate his strengths. That is part of the why that atrocity known as Oni exists! The fanboys... and girls. And, the design decisions facilitated by Capcom. Akuma was not really meant for this sort of thing and the "Shin" Akuma concept was enough.

There there is Evil Ryu. Oh boy. (In my opinion, Evil Ryu was a wasted slot... the days of SFA3 were long gone already but...)
Evil Ryu was meant to be a more "arrogant" version of Ryu takng the same path Akuma was. The original concept of Evil Ryu came from a non-canonical Street Fighter comic book shortly before the Alpha series came into fruition. In most depictions of the series, "Evil Ryu" was just a silently pissed and unnecessarily angsty (is that a word?) version of a character that already existed. In SFIV series, Evil Ryu's characterization worsened to the point where he pretty much exaggerated the very points that you made. And, it is very sickening. Another thing that is tiresome is... "evil or badass-antihero" versions of characters... that already exists. Not only does it often end causing a lot of inconsistencies in a story line but it also doesn't do the character roster any justice. If one is going to create a "secondary super-duper powered evil" version of the same character, they need to incorporate within the character that is already in the roster instead of creating a seperate character. The same with things like Jin / Devil Jin (from the Tekken series). Evil Ryu in SSFIV:AE was... hopelessly obnoxious. In fact, his general presentation is juvenile! Something that you would definitely see on a some generic anime flick. It is generally a good idea to keep track of how the characters' are written in a story line. As you stated: Creating a pointlessly edgy "badass" character does not equal "relatable." It's bullshit. A writer and character designer needs to be as deliberate as possible when trying to organize entertainment quality.

Then there are other characters like Kratos from God of War, Shadow the Hedgehog (who has pretty much worn out his welcome in the series at this point, arguably anytime after Sonic Adventure 2), a lot of common anime "rivals," etc, etc...

Good post. Although I'm not sure some (like Kratos) are even really herioc. In Kratos' case, he murdered an entire pantheon out of anger for his own stupid mistakes. He was just selfish and brash, that said he's fanboy bait because he's so angsty.

Akuma is definitely the Wolverine of Street Fighter and he's plenty DBZ. I definitely liked him growing up as he was fun to play and he had some cool looking moves, but seeing him being purposefully overpowered and having to deal with his legions of fanboys started to wear on me somewhat. He has some cool aspects to his character, but he's fanboy bait at this point.

I have to say I'm a big Evil Ryu fan, but he started out differently. He was just a dark side of Ryu that came out when he fought Sagat, they built on this a bit and he was just Ryu with different colors and some new moves in Alpha. He's had different designs in different games like in the SNK vs Capcom pocket game where he was a zombie, and he was darker in CvS2 (my favorite). The SF4 version is his "evolved" version, but he's definitely more "badass DBZ" in this version, so I see what you mean. I'm not sure he's really an anti hero though. I just find him a blast to play since he loves beating ass to be honest lol. He just wants to kill stuff. He's more of an IDGAF character to me.

Yea Shadow is bleh. I like Knuckles but the Sonic team doesn't know what to do with him. Shadow is just a dark mary sue. This badass disease has spread really far.

Kof keeps it in check better. Their characters are jerks, but nobody really stands out as a badass "anti hero" besides Iori and K'. Their style is different so it's much more tolerable.

[JACK-2]

May 17, 2015 3:41:03 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I've been thinking about this for a while. Anti-hero "badass" characters are everywhere.

Now I'm not saying that everyone should be goody two shoes or anything of the sort. "Good always beats evil" is cliche as well.

It's just these anti hero characters have been done to death and they often get wanked by writers and fanboys and take up more screen time or get more attention. I believe it's that people want to be the bad guy without actually being "bad", so they get to be the anti hero instead and just do what they want. It's the safe way out.


When people say that they want a "relateable character" I think they're just justifying it. How is Punisher relateable? Wolverine? These guys are just wish fulfillment of "I can do what I want because I'm a badass.". Spider-Man is more relateable than either of them and he's not some brooding anti hero.

*Note that classic anti hero had a different meaning than the modern badass stuff we see today*. Spider-Man would be an anti-hero under the classic sense.

I'm honestly tired of the obsession with bad boys in western culture in general. It's getting tiresome and the justifications for them are just BS. TBH, I don't find these characters to awe inspiring or even cool.

[JACK-2]

As for Akuma, he was supposed to be another powerful Martial arts master like Gen and Oro. Both of which have stalemated him. Gouken allegedly beat him once before as well [guide book]. I think overtime though he's become a nonsensicle character.Also, Oni is freaking trash. He's just Akuma but DBZified. Shin was more than enough, I dunno why they gave him another superform. Plus he can fly to boot. It's wank, I prefer regular Akuma tbh.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Yea Akuma has become the Wolverine of Street Fighter. He's been newbed up to appeal to the least common denominator of those who like "badass characters. It's no surprise he's so popular. Oni is just ugly to me.

May 18, 2015 18:54:04 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

May 17, 2015 3:41:03 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I've been thinking about this for a while. Anti-hero "badass" characters are everywhere.

Now I'm not saying that everyone should be goody two shoes or anything of the sort. "Good always beats evil" is cliche as well.

It's just these anti hero characters have been done to death and they often get wanked by writers and fanboys and take up more screen time or get more attention. I believe it's that people want to be the bad guy without actually being "bad", so they get to be the anti hero instead and just do what they want. It's the safe way out.


When people say that they want a "relateable character" I think they're just justifying it. How is Punisher relateable? Wolverine? These guys are just wish fulfillment of "I can do what I want because I'm a badass.". Spider-Man is more relateable than either of them and he's not some brooding anti hero.

*Note that classic anti hero had a different meaning than the modern badass stuff we see today*. Spider-Man would be an anti-hero under the classic sense.

I'm honestly tired of the obsession with bad boys in western culture in general. It's getting tiresome and the justifications for them are just BS. TBH, I don't find these characters to awe inspiring or even cool.

We have "badass" characters in Anime becoming popular like Hiei or Vegeta, but they do try to give them an interesting backstory (Hiei at least). Some characters are well done like Wolverine lore wise, but he's portrayed horribly with the wank.

[Great Dark Hero]

May 18, 2015 19:17:18 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Yea Akuma has become the Wolverine of Street Fighter. He's been newbed up to appeal to the least common denominator of those who like "badass characters. It's no surprise he's so popular. Oni is just ugly to me.

May 18, 2015 18:54:04 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I'm honestly tired of the obsession with bad boys in western culture in general. It's getting tiresome and the justifications for them are just BS. TBH, I don't find these characters to awe inspiring or even cool.

We have "badass" characters in Anime becoming popular like Hiei or Vegeta, but they do try to give them an interesting backstory (Hiei at least). Some characters are well done like Wolverine lore wise, but he's portrayed horribly with the wank.

This is correct.
Many noteworthy characters such as Wolverine for example written well from its source material.
Then again, there is a such thing as overexposure which can be problematic.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 19, 2015 1:42:26 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

May 18, 2015 19:17:18 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Yea Akuma has become the Wolverine of Street Fighter. He's been newbed up to appeal to the least common denominator of those who like "badass characters. It's no surprise he's so popular. Oni is just ugly to me.

We have "badass" characters in Anime becoming popular like Hiei or Vegeta, but they do try to give them an interesting backstory (Hiei at least). Some characters are well done like Wolverine lore wise, but he's portrayed horribly with the wank.

This is correct.
Many noteworthy characters such as Wolverine for example written well from its source material.
Then again, there is a such thing as overexposure which can be problematic.

Wolverine is rich lore-wise, but his over exposure is second to none. He's on the cover of comics he doesn't appear in for crying out loud lol. They just whore him out.

[Great Dark Hero]

Just watched a review of Sonic Boom... and that game definitely does look awful.
You know that Shadow the Hedgehog shows up here, too? But, based on what happens when Sonic and Shadow do interact with each other... it clearly shows that Sega no longer knows what to do with the said character. He did not contribute anything to the plot what so ever (though the plot itself was already in pieces to begin with).
Shadow would have been a far more stronger character if Sega allowed him to stay "dead" in his first appearance.
Either that, or have him come back in SEVERAL games later as act as a full blown villain, as opposed to... whatever the hell happened when Sonic Heroes came out... essentially him becoming this annoying, juvenile, fanboy pandering, "badass" anti-hero.
Shadow the Hedgehog and then Sonic 06 was the point where this sort of thing had gotten ridiculous.

Let's just say that there were better ways to handle this character. Much better ways. I'm sure some of ya'll can list a couple of examples here and there...

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 28, 2015 0:26:28 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

Just watched a review of Sonic Boom... and that game definitely does look awful.
You know that Shadow the Hedgehog shows up here, too? But, based on what happens when Sonic and Shadow do interact with each other... it clearly shows that Sega no longer knows what to do with the said character. He did not contribute anything to the plot what so ever (though the plot itself was already in pieces to begin with).
Shadow would have been a far more stronger character if Sega allowed him to stay "dead" in his first appearance.
Either that, or have him come back in SEVERAL games later as act as a full blown villain, as opposed to... whatever the hell happened when Sonic Heroes came out... essentially him becoming this annoying, juvenile, fanboy pandering, "badass" anti-hero.
Shadow the Hedgehog and then Sonic 06 was the point where this sort of thing had gotten ridiculous.

Let's just say that there were better ways to handle this character. Much better ways. I'm sure some of ya'll can list a couple of examples here and there...

I liked Knuckles but they ruined him too. We didn't really need a dark Sonic though, but it's just too tempting to make fanboy fodder.

[Great Dark Hero]

Poor Knuckles... another example of how to mess up a perfectly good character...

[Blaze72]

Regarding the Punisher and not feeling guilt

he does feel guilt if he accidentedly kills a cop.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 30, 2015 0:38:26 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

Poor Knuckles... another example of how to mess up a perfectly good character...

I really hate the stupid exaggerated upper body look too.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 30, 2015 4:50:06 GMT -5 Blaze72 said:

Regarding the Punisher and not feeling guilt

he does feel guilt if he accidentedly kills a cop.

I hope that doesn't happen often.

[Great Dark Hero]

Then there are other horrifying examples.
The fanboys and fangirls will eat up things like Sasuke from the Naruto series (which arguably fell apart after the first few chapters anyway. Little things like this are part of the reason why the more intellectual audiences tend to be careful about what they read or watch).

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 31, 2015 12:00:04 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

Then there are other horrifying examples.
The fanboys and fangirls will eat up things like Sasuke from the Naruto series (which arguably fell apart after the first few chapters anyway. Little things like this are part of the reason why the more intellectual audiences tend to be careful about what they read or watch).

It's gotten to the point where if something is hyped up, I tend to be weary on that lone because of the idiot factor.

[JACK-2]

Another group of overrated "bad-ass" characters are The Phantom Troupe from Hunter X Hunter. Within the fandom they are wanked to no ends, people think they can beat even the current characters lol.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 2, 2015 4:43:57 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Another group of overrated "bad-ass" characters are The Phantom Troupe from Hunter X Hunter. Within the fandom they are wanked to no ends, people think they can beat even the current characters lol.

What do they do?

[JACK-2]

There a gang of thieves that one of the main characters wants revenge against for wiping out his clan. You know, the typical revenge story. When they first show up their hot stuff since at the time the mine characters had just gotten their powers [Nen]. While these guys are supposed to be highly skilled nen users. But, as the story progresses the main characters run into more adept and much more powerful antagonist. It's hard to even see Ryodan matching up with the current anatgonist.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 2, 2015 6:08:59 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

There a gang of thieves that one of the main characters wants revenge against for wiping out his clan. You know, the typical revenge story. When they first show up their hot stuff since at the time the mine characters had just gotten their powers [Nen]. While these guys are supposed to be highly skilled nen users. But, as the story progresses the main characters run into more adept and much more powerful antagonist. It's hard to even see Ryodan matching up with the current anatgonist.

So they're overrated because they're "badass"?

[JACK-2]

Jun 2, 2015 9:46:24 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

So they're overrated because they're "badass"?

Yeah, people still think they're some top tier characters despite not being relevant for two consecutive arcs. This arc they will be even more irrelevant.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Although HxH is really good when it comes to not overpowering their characters as much aren't they? They don't grow at quite an exponential scale right?

[Great Dark Hero]

If anything, if a character should be a "badass anti-hero" it needs to be written so that it is reasonable within the series standards.
Fanboys may still end up foaming at the mouth and showcasing exceedingly bad fanfiction over the said characters though...
I am not necessarily against characters being popular to a degree but the individuals who are behind making a character should at least have a good idea of how to implement them into the story while still introducing them to new concepts overtime and refining them. They should also still introduce legitimate flaws and/or obstacles in order to keep the character interesting. Another theoretically good approach is generally... not over-exposing them or "whoring" them out too much.
For example Geese Howard from the FF/KOF series. He does not appear in every other game but if he does, then would theoretically mean something (plus, in terms of game play, he is fun to play in a lot of cases, like for example: KOF98UM or CVS2 for example).

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 3, 2015 0:24:55 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

If anything, if a character should be a "badass anti-hero" it needs to be written so that it is reasonable within the series standards.
Fanboys may still end up foaming at the mouth and showcasing exceedingly bad fanfiction over the said characters though...
I am not necessarily against characters being popular to a degree but the individuals who are behind making a character should at least have a good idea of how to implement them into the story while still introducing them to new concepts overtime and refining them. They should also still introduce legitimate flaws and/or obstacles in order to keep the character interesting. Another theoretically good approach is generally... not over-exposing them or "whoring" them out too much.
For example Geese Howard from the FF/KOF series. He does not appear in every other game but if he does, then would theoretically mean something (plus, in terms of game play, he is fun to play in a lot of cases, like for example: KOF98UM or CVS2 for example).

Popular characters are fine, nothing wrong with it. "Badass anti heroes" just tend to be overhyped because it's easy wish fulfillment. Geese is a villain and it works for him and he's well done. People like being the bad guy but they know that means it's going against what they were taught.

Anti-heroes are just a copout in most cases. They allow a person to commit villainous acts and still be "good" so people can have the best of both worlds essentially.

[Great Dark Hero]

I need to look for some other strong examples of anti-heroes that are written well within their residential series. Geese was a fool blown villain as far FF was concerned.
Perhaps... something along the lines of Trabis Touchdown? Within the sequel (No More Heroes: Desperate Struggle), he would state that he wanted to be a "hero" in his own way. Based on how he is characterized, he is somewhat of a "nonstandard" badass anti hero but it is clear that he has weaknesses and flaws in his character...
At least when compared to... say... Shadow... Sasuke... or other examples of anti-heroes that... just fell flat into hopeless fanboyism. Plus, some designs and developers end up playing onto this "untouchable, brooding, unnecessarily angst-y (not a word
.. but I'm sure you understand), Mary-Sue-like(Gary Stu), badass, anti hero."
More or less an outlet for people who are easily pleased by this concept, disregarding nature behind the said character and the series itself.
There are also things like Jin Kazama (Post-Tekken 6). Based on what happened in Tekken 6 in terms of plot (which was very, VERY terrible by the way), Jin's (albeit sudden) shift towards this anti-hero approach seems unwarranted. After Tekken 3, Jin was generally just a mentally upset individual trying get rid of his Devil Gene and found a proper motivation to do so back in the days of Tekken 5. Now all of the sudden this characterization was... gone. Even in Tekken 3 (and the non-canonical TTT1), you could actually hear him chuckle after a handful of his moves (example, see Omen Stance and then finish the combo out from it). As of Tekken 4, he developed a new found motivation to continue living, sparing his tormentors life (that is Kazuya and Heihachi). Then... he (somewhat randomly) becomes this typical unnecessarily brooding, badass anti-hero that we are lamenting about. Negative tropes and all.
And, no. I don't get Jin's "justification" either as Azazel seems to be a completely moot concept as of Tekken 7 and the fact that his efforts were still very convoluted (and unnecessarily dick-ish).

(Typed on phone)

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 3, 2015 6:11:34 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

I need to look for some other strong examples of anti-heroes that are written well within their residential series. Geese was a fool blown villain as far FF was concerned.
Perhaps... something along the lines of Trabis Touchdown? Within the sequel (No More Heroes: Desperate Struggle), he would state that he wanted to be a "hero" in his own way. Based on how he is characterized, he is somewhat of a "nonstandard" badass anti hero but it is clear that he has weaknesses and flaws in his character...
At least when compared to... say... Shadow... Sasuke... or other examples of anti-heroes that... just fell flat into hopeless fanboyism. Plus, some designs and developers end up playing onto this "untouchable, brooding, unnecessarily angst-y (not a word
.. but I'm sure you understand), Mary-Sue-like(Gary Stu), badass, anti hero."
More or less an outlet for people who are easily pleased by this concept, disregarding nature behind the said character and the series itself.
There are also things like Jin Kazama (Post-Tekken 6). Based on what happened in Tekken 6 in terms of plot (which was very, VERY terrible by the way), Jin's (albeit sudden) shift towards this anti-hero approach seems unwarranted. After Tekken 3, Jin was generally just a mentally upset individual trying get rid of his Devil Gene and found a proper motivation to do so back in the days of Tekken 5. Now all of the sudden this characterization was... gone. Even in Tekken 3 (and the non-canonical TTT1), you could actually hear him chuckle after a handful of his moves (example, see Omen Stance and then finish the combo out from it). As of Tekken 4, he developed a new found motivation to continue living, sparing his tormentors life (that is Kazuya and Heihachi). Then... he (somewhat randomly) becomes this typical unnecessarily brooding, badass anti-hero that we are lamenting about. Negative tropes and all.
And, no. I don't get Jin's "justification" either as Azazel seems to be a completely moot concept as of Tekken 7 and the fact that his efforts were still very convoluted (and unnecessarily dick-ish).

(Typed on phone)

I didn't even know you were using phone until you mentioned it. I guess it makes sense since you always seem to be off right after you post lol.

There are some good characters lore wise. Wolverine has great lore but he's been whored out for fanboys. Duke Nukem is more of a parody character who embodies bad ass kind of like Lobo.

Hiei is a good badass anti-hero character with a good story who doesn't take it over the top. The Punisher pushes villain territory, but people see K' as a darker Kyo. Is Iori an anti-hero? He kind of seems to be.

Iron Man pushes the anti-hero boundaries. Spider-Man is a classic anti-hero before the "badass" hase kicked in.


Scorpion in MKX seems to be so over the top "bad ass" that it's comical. The voice, the way he acts, everything. Just fanboy fodder.

[Great Dark Hero]

I used to like K' but... then I got a tad older.
I'd rather for K' to be a full blown villain for number of reasons. Shortly after getting out of high school, something about this character was just far too... juvenile for my tastes but I liked him when first appeared. Iori Yagami is a pretty cool example of an anti-hero done correctly (despite some questionable fans still acting stupid over the character which isn't necessarily anything Iori is responsible for - he is a novelty within the KOF series).

Shit. I might actually be one of those idiot fanboys myself from how I keep lamenting about these things on specific characters, which may have something to do with how careful I've been with the entertainment that I look for...

OH... here's something rather annoying:
Ninja Theory. DmC. Dante.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 3, 2015 6:56:36 GMT -5 Great Dark Hero said:

I used to like K' but... then I got a tad older.
I'd rather for K' to be a full blown villain for number of reasons. Shortly after getting out of high school, something about this character was just far too... juvenile for my tastes but I liked him when first appeared. Iori Yagami is a pretty cool example of an anti-hero done correctly (despite some questionable fans still acting stupid over the character which isn't necessarily anything Iori is responsible for - he is a novelty within the KOF series).

Shit. I might actually be one of those idiot fanboys myself from how I keep lamenting about these things on specific characters, which may have something to do with how careful I've been with the entertainment that I look for...

OH... here's something rather annoying:
Ninja Theory. DmC. Dante.

Yea K' is kind of a product of the "edgy" days of the late 90's early 2000's. I still think he has a cool appeal to him, it does come across as wish fulfillment now. I think Kyo and Iori are plenty flawed enough to be honest. Kyo and Benimaru are arrogant as hell and Iori is also a jerk. Not that K's bad mind you. Kula and Maxima work well with him.

DmC dante is a really glaring example. I saw the sin video for that and I shook my head. Classic Dante was better.