Why is Hentai Manga Legal?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 28, 2015 18:03:45 GMT -5 MGNoxa said:

I don't know what the porn version of Manga is called or if it even has a name so I'm just calling it Hentai Manga for now.

Basically over here, actually I don't know what the law is on porn parodies in the UK but in the US Porn Parodies are legal because they are a parody. But in Japan they aren't a parody, they don't just feature the characters but their likeness, Bayonetta Hentai Manga is in Japan they use the characters and names, it's pretty much Bayonetta but with graphic sex. Why is this legal? There's no Parody it's just a porn version of Bayonetta.

There's a big difference between the Batman '66 Porn Parody and Bayonetta Hentai Manga.

If I tried to make a Porn Comic of Iron Man I'd be sued unless it was a parody and I probably won't be able to sell it. I guess in Japan it's legal but why is it legal? Why do the creators of characters let this happen? If I made something awesome I'd be proud of a porn parody but taking my characters and just making it a porno would really piss me off.

So what do you think of this? Do you think this should be legal outside of Japan? It just seems weird to me that people can make money from this without someone getting angry.

When the Mario Porn Parody happened Nintendo had to buy it to stop them from releasing it, it was the only way for them to stop it.

I have done zero research into porn parody laws so this could be legal and I just don't know.

Ok, I thought you were saying porn should be illegal.

Well they not only have different copyright laws in different countries but many times things can be protected if "they don't affect the sales of the original product."

This is interesting because I tried to make some custom T-shirts with my forum backgrounds I created (they looked really cool too), but I couldn't because no shirt company wanted licensed characters even if I was using them alone and even if I drew them myself.

Crazy huh. I see people make custom controllers and laptop skins from characters all of the time.

[JACK-2]

Better answer.


Question:
If doujinshi in Japan is perfectly legal then why not allow it in America too? I see no reason why Viz and others can’t allow doujinshi of Bleach, Naruto, One Piece or Hunter x Hunter to be traded. Why do the Japanese get to live large and enjoy the good life with endless doujinshi for Japanse anime/manga while we have paranoia and rampant lawyers and fear over in the States?


Answer:
The Japanese term “doujinshi” refers to fan-created material, and thus has a very broad definition. Doujinshi can be print, music, video, software. Doujinshi can be entirely original material created and self-published, or can be parody, satire, or homage of characters and concepts created by someone else. Doujinshi can be created and published by amateur fans. Countless professional Japanese manga artists and animators also self-publish doujin comics privately. For example, Black Lagoon manga creator Rei Hiroe and Outlanders manga creator Johji Manabe publish adults-only parodies of their own works under the respective pen names “TEX-MEX” and “Studio Katsudon.” Character designer Nobuteru Yuuki has independently released self-published book collections of his concept art for assorted anime series. Te origins and nature of doujinshi in Japan and America are very different. And it’s particularly those differences that distinguish why doujinshi is accepted and even encouraged in Japan yet strictly discouraged overseas. Ironically, Japan has no “fair use” clause in its copyright law, meaning that Japanese law does not grant permission for individuals to refer to copyrighted works without advance permission even to honor, criticize, or parody. Simply making jokes that distinctly target a copyrighted character or concept is not “protected” free speech in Japan and can result in the joke-maker being sued for copyright infringement. Section 107 of US Code title 17, the “fair use” copyright clause, does allow Americans to refer to established, copyrighted works for the purpose of criticism and satire. In effect, American copyright law is more favorable to the creation and development of doujinshi than Japanese copyright law is, but tradition has an even greater influence than legality.

Prior to the internet, and prior to the modern era’s legal trigger-finger and corporate paranoia, Japanese fans began creating the own parody and homage comics in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The first Comic Market convention was held in 1975 and had over 30 doujinshi creator groups exhibiting work. By the late 1960s commercially published manga had existed in Japan for decades, and even the modern anime industry was nearly a decade established. So amateur fans that wanted to express their affection for popular manga and anime had plenty of opportunity to do so. In America, however, manga and anime weren’t remotely as commonplace and familiar. Similarly, America had no widely established tradition of self-published, independent comics. America’s independent comics boom, when individual American comic artists found the ability to print and circulate their own professional-quality comic books, didn’t occur until the early 1980s. Because anime fandom was limited and isolated, accessibility to anime extremely limited, and understanding of anime and manga limited in America during the 1970s and 1980s, the early American anime doujinshi publications were “fanzines,” rather than comics. Local anime fan clubs printed amateur magazines filled with fan art and, more prominently, articles that discussed anime and provided plot summaries and descriptions. While Japanese doujinshi were used to pay tribute to existing manga and anime, American doujinshi were used to educate and spread information about manga and anime. The Japanese grassroots doujinshi community served as, and continues today to serve as a breeding ground for tomorrow’s professional manga artists. Creating and selling amateur comics trains aspiring Japanese artists to draw and create characters and narratives that appeal to readers. Furthermore, Japanese ethics contribute to the continued prominence of doujinshi. The purpose of copyright protection is to prevent hard-working creators from having their creations stolen or misused. The established cultural sense of Japanese morality and intelligence largely prevents creators and consumers from confusing official “authorized” publications with unofficial, unauthorized doujinshi homages. In Japan doujinshi creations parallel, supplement, and even buoy the sales of official publications, just as the individuals that create doujinshi sometimes migrate into the professional industry. Today Japanese retail chain stores including Mandarake, Melon Books, Toranoana, and Lashinbang exist to sell unauthorized but widely tolerated doujinshi publications. Countless small Japanese printing companies thrive because fan artists pay them to print doujin comics. In effect, four the past 40 years the professional and corporate Japanese manga and anime creation industry has grown up as a sibling to the Japanese fan-created comic industry. The two markets are now inextricably intertwined and mutually supportive of each other. Japanese consumers understand the symbiotic relationship between fan-created comics and professional publications. Japanese consumers immediately recognize the difference between self-published or independently published comics and mainstream commercially published works. Japanese creators are conscious of both independent and commercial publication; some artists work simultaneously in both fields. America is not the same way. Particularly with its long history of doujinshi and the uniformity of Japanese morality and etiquette, Japanese commercial publishers can’t, and largely don’t need to police Japanese fan artists for overstepping their roles and cannibalizing sales and profits from “authorized,” commercial publication. Since doujinshi isn’t already established in America, Japanese copyright owners have the opportunity to enforce their trademarks and restrict the creative control and image of their franchises to their own control.

For example, the Smile Precure character Yayoi Kise (Cure Peace) has a timid, almost childish personality. The Japanese fan community, particularly via the erotic doujinshi underground, has collectively exaggerated her personality, percieving her as easily sexually exploited and frequently associating her with urine due to the yellow color of her outfit. Likewise, the Japanese fan-created “Suzumiya Haruhi no Seitenkan” sub-genre gave birth to “Kyonko,” the female alternate version of Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi male character “Kyon.” While such fan exploitation and reinvisioning adds depth and diversity to the Japanese otaku community, it also dilutes the purity and strength of the singular “official” character descriptions and images that creators and publishers work so hard to establish and popularize. In America, Japanese publishers do have to ability to prevent the dilution and divestment of character and franchise images and reputations by strictly limiting who and how Japanese manga and anime franchises can be distributed in America. By limiting doujinshi and restricting the authorized distribution of anime to only select companies, Japanese copyright owners can ensure that every time an American consumer encounters a character or franchise, the consumer sees only a high quality product with professionally drawn art that reflects the character or concept exactly the way it’s officially supposed to be.

Furthermore, American distributors don’t want a rampant, unlimited amount of questionable quality depictions of anime circulating for sale in America because poor quality commerical merchandise begets suspicion about the quality of all American anime merchandise, not to mention cannibalizes the sales of authorized merchandise. Official domestic distributors like FUNimation, Sentai, and Great Eastern pay to be authorized ambassadors for particular franchises. These American companies pay for the right to introduce particular manga and anime franchises to American consumers. Thus these companies want to ensure that American consumers only see select anime in a positive spotlight that encourages affection, respect, and consumer sales that profit authorized, deserving distributors, manufacturers, and publishers. Fan art is one thing, but poor quality merchandise, or crude, obscene, or poor-quality comics sold at that same stores and conventions that sell the “real thing” cause consumers to spend money on the “wrong” goods and cause consumers to question the integrity and quality of the franchise. No one, including even the fan artists, wants that to happen.

According to the 2012 CIA World Factbook, 98.5% of the residents of Japan are ethnically Japanese. Doujinshi arose largely due to the uniformity of intention, good will, perception, and morality of Japanese people. America doesn’t have a near singular mindset and perception of fan-created homage works. Up until literally about five years ago, America didn’t even have a universal respect for comic books. Manga and anime doujinshi are a unique Japanese creation that are only supported, encouraged, understood, and appreciated in Japan. Japan is a uniquely fertile environment that allows for the spontaneous development and circulation of fan-created parody comics. America just doesn’t have the same multitude of circumstances, characteristics, and environment that allow for the positive growth of doujinshi culture.

[JACK-2]

Source btw:

www.animenation.net/blog/2014/08/12/34666/


I don't really agree myself. I personally think it has more to do with western geekdom being about passive consumption and Japanese havng a more participatory fandom with active consumption. That is the line between consumer and producer is less solid in Japanese geekdom vs western fandom.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 28, 2015 20:06:36 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Source btw:

www.animenation.net/blog/2014/08/12/34666/


I don't really agree myself. I personally think it has more to do with western geekdom being about passive consumption and Japanese havng a more participatory fandom with active consumption. That is the line between consumer and producer is less solid in Japanese geekdom vs western fandom.

I think a lot of it goes back to the laws that govern the whole thing. A person can only be so creative before they risk breaking some law around here when it comes to fan based material.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 29, 2015 3:52:41 GMT -5 MGNoxa said:

I didn't expect such interesting replies. I'm no longer questioning whether it should be illegal but now I'm like "Hell Yeah Japan Rocks!" I find it fascinating the difference between the fan cultures, this is bordering on a different topic but do you think that is why Japanese Developers tend to listen to their Japanese fans more than Western fans? In SFV Japanese fans complained about Cammy because she was't cute enough so Capcom changed her face, I also know Hideki Kamiya (Bayonetta creator, DMC creator, Platinum Games) prefers to listen to Japanese fans and what they want when it comes to deciding his next game, he still does his own thing but he would sooner listen to Japanese fans before Western fans.

Thanks for the replies, I didn't expect to learn something new from this topic!

Japanese people tend to be more traditional and homogeneous. It was a very big deal for them to neglect their fans and cater to outside groups. This can also hurt them because they're slow at adapting as well which is why the west caught up and surpassed them.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 29, 2015 4:47:30 GMT -5 MGNoxa said:

Nov 29, 2015 4:37:03 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Japanese people tend to be more traditional and homogeneous. It was a very big deal for them to neglect their fans and cater to outside groups. This can also hurt them because they're slow at adapting as well which is why the west caught up and surpassed them.

Yeah, it can be a bad thing but at the same time it depends what their goals are. Japan loves Lightning in Final Fantasy that's why she's in 7 Final Fantasy games(Could be 6 games), 90% of western fans hate her (I think she's the best Final Fantasy character, COME AT ME BRO!) so it's a balance to get it right. As a British person I would hate for them to change James Bond to an american spy even if it meant that they would make BILLIONS, it just wouldn't feel right because he is our character, he's our super spy.

I do really like the respect Japanese creators seem to treat their fans. Seems really cool.

The problem comes in with technological advancement and expansion. Western developers have adjusted to modern times and tastes much better than the Japanese market which is still lagging behind (but catching up). Developers have to entertain their fans, that's how they make money. When you have a smaller base you can do things to please the hardcore.

[JACK-2]

Nov 29, 2015 3:52:41 GMT -5 MGNoxa said:

I didn't expect such interesting replies. I'm no longer questioning whether it should be illegal but now I'm like "Hell Yeah Japan Rocks!" I find it fascinating the difference between the fan cultures, this is bordering on a different topic but do you think that is why Japanese Developers tend to listen to their Japanese fans more than Western fans? In SFV Japanese fans complained about Cammy because she was't cute enough so Capcom changed her face, I also know Hideki Kamiya (Bayonetta creator, DMC creator, Platinum Games) prefers to listen to Japanese fans and what they want when it comes to deciding his next game, he still does his own thing but he would sooner listen to Japanese fans before Western fans.

Thanks for the replies, I didn't expect to learn something new from this topic!

They do listen to western fans, but it depends on the market they are targeting. They tend to focus on either the domestic market or the global market independently.


What C master said about being more focused on their market is true. But, there is also alot of restructuring going on in the industry in Japan. So, things might change.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 29, 2015 17:46:42 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Nov 29, 2015 3:52:41 GMT -5 MGNoxa said:

I didn't expect such interesting replies. I'm no longer questioning whether it should be illegal but now I'm like "Hell Yeah Japan Rocks!" I find it fascinating the difference between the fan cultures, this is bordering on a different topic but do you think that is why Japanese Developers tend to listen to their Japanese fans more than Western fans? In SFV Japanese fans complained about Cammy because she was't cute enough so Capcom changed her face, I also know Hideki Kamiya (Bayonetta creator, DMC creator, Platinum Games) prefers to listen to Japanese fans and what they want when it comes to deciding his next game, he still does his own thing but he would sooner listen to Japanese fans before Western fans.

Thanks for the replies, I didn't expect to learn something new from this topic!

They do listen to western fans, but it depends on the market they are targeting. They tend to focus on either the domestic market or the global market independently.


What C master said about being more focused on their market is true. But, there is also alot of restructuring going on in the industry in Japan. So, things might change.

Yea that's what I was saying. They're starting to change as seen with many recent decisions.

[JACK-2]

Still not quite there yet. I think technologies like VR and smartphones will give them a boost in gaming.

They also have developed new business models for online distribution of anime and manga. In the article I posted about anime being invisible to geek culture. One reason that was cited was the fact that traditional channels like tv are controlled by big media and they are more keen on advertising their own intellectual property rather than a foreign one. Which explains why anime has disappeared from tv but exploded online.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 29, 2015 18:16:19 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Still not quite there yet. I think technologies like VR and smartphones will give them a boost in gaming.

They also have developed new business models for online distribution of anime and manga. In the article I posted about anime being invisible to geek culture. One reason that was cited was the fact that traditional channels like tv are controlled by big media and they are more keen on advertising their own intellectual property rather than a foreign one. Which explains why anime has disappeared from tv but exploded online.

Many things are exploding online vs tv and the demographics that watch anime are more likely to view things online vs needing to watch them on tv (like sports).

Do you think the mobile games they like will extend to the west the way they have here?

[JACK-2]

I do miss watching anime on tv. But, garbage like toonami makes me understand why.

Look how big angry birds is. There is definitely a market for mobile. Japan has a head start on that. V consoles are still growing, but It's only a matter of time.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Meh, I was never one who cared. I like being able to watch whatever whenever I want without the hassle. I've heard the quality has dropped but that's all around.

Well yea there are definitely some big mobile games, but what I mean is do you think the games they make will do as well here in terms of appeal?

[JACK-2]

Online is more convenient to be sure. But, I like the presentation and feel of the television format:




Nothing is hitting so far. But, in terms of vr I hear resident evil 7 will make strong headways into that.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 29, 2015 21:15:20 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Online is more convenient to be sure. But, I like the presentation and feel of the television format:




Nothing is hitting so far. But, in terms of vr I hear resident evil 7 will make strong headways into that.

I have more HD options than I did back when I was watching tv back in the day. That all depends on equipment. I personally like being in my executive chair and having everything nearby and multi-tasking. I've never been a "sit down and watch" type of person.

It also depends on the gear and monitors you have. Even portable is just better for me. That said you can rewind and everything else on tv so it's not so bad.

[JACK-2]

It suits your life style. That makes sense, I'm getting into watching stuff on mobile too. It's very personal and convenient.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 29, 2015 23:35:16 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

It suits your life style. That makes sense, I'm getting into watching stuff on mobile too. It's very personal and convenient.

Well I mean even if I'm at home I still watch on my desktop or my laptop. I can pull up multiple windows, pause it and watch something else and come back. Speed it up, slow it down, jump to any point instantly, etc. Much MUCH better than a TV for me. I don't miss it at all. Just like consoles it's too linear. I can do anything at any time.

Now someone like my dad who watches sports and other programs is the kind of person who can park in front of a tv for hours and just watch stuff. Not my style, but it does work for him.