Is Flash Overrated on Forums

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Is the Flash overrated on forums? We all know that forum rules allow characters to do things they normally can't because they aren't jobbing like in comics, but do people take it too far with him?

[Marcus4600]

Yeah. To be honest, KMC has its own version. I prefer to use a system of taking high and low feats, and the characters fight in an everyday scenario. Then we don't get toolbags saying that Green Lanters can trap some shit like Entropy on a daily basis, and that Wolverine can stomp Spider-Man. Then again, it's not like Jinzin and Capt it Up take Spidey's high feats at all when it comes to that subject.

Anywho, he's overrated, and not nearly as powerful as he's made out to be.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

marcus4600 said:

Yeah. To be honest, KMC has its own version. I prefer to use a system of taking high and low feats, and the characters fight in an everyday scenario. Then we don't get toolbags saying that Green Lanters can trap some shit like Entropy on a daily basis, and that Wolverine can stomp Spider-Man. Then again, it's not like Jinzin and Capt it Up take Spidey's high feats at all when it comes to that subject.

Anywho, he's overrated, and not nearly as powerful as he's made out to be.

That's because Flash, GL's, and Magic Users get amped up on the forum due to rules, it makes it so they can do what they are capable of. And since GL's and magic are plot devices, we know what that leads to. Headaches and fanboys. I think Flash is uber and can even beat Superman, but I read some of the crazies stuff on there myself sometimes that just has me baffled. Dumping the Multiverse?

Spiderman should be more powerful as he's not holding back, but Wolverine.... supporters think he should get hit by peak humans, it's ridiculous I tell you.

[Psyquis52]

Flash is majorly overrated but he's not the first.

[Marcus4600]

To be honest, I recently adopted SuperheroChat's debate rules on my own forum to make sure we can avoid that garbage.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

What rules are that?

[Marcus4600]

You have to take a characters' past actions and ways of fighting into account, along with high and low feats. Esentially, Kyle Rayner as a GL vs Beta Ray Bill goes much differently.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

marcus4600 said:

You have to take a characters' past actions and ways of fighting into account, along with high and low feats. Esentially, Kyle Rayner as a GL vs Beta Ray Bill goes much differently.

I think you have to strike a delicate medium, which may not be congruent with your opponent, but it's good if it's close.

[newjak]

Is Falsh overrated yeah he is when you take his normal showings but when you think of his high end feats and some of things writers have him doing he should be a low lever skyfather at the least.

So you can almost turn it around say he is also underated alot of the time because he should almost be unbeatbale by anyother High Tier/Herald level being

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Depending on which herald, it's pretty obvious however that Flash is underwritten in his comics though, and on TV he's just comic relief.

[JACK-2]

Dec 7, 2006 15:26:56 GMT -5 Marcus4600 said:

To be honest, I recently adopted SuperheroChat's debate rules on my own forum to make sure we can avoid that garbage.

That sounds very sensible, but for some reason most versus in other forums have all characters Blood Lusted which is is just a way for fanboys to ignore the weaknesses of the persons character. I'm not even gonna touch people using a characters absolute best when it's a low showing for another character who should be more powerful.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 1, 2009 21:43:24 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Dec 7, 2006 15:26:56 GMT -5 Marcus4600 said:

To be honest, I recently adopted SuperheroChat's debate rules on my own forum to make sure we can avoid that garbage.

That sounds very sensible, but for some reason most versus in other forums have all characters Blood Lusted which is is just a way for fanboys to ignore the weaknesses of the persons character. I'm not even gonna touch people using a characters absolute best when it's a low showing for another character who should be more powerful.

Well that's what fanboys do, they take their character's high feats and ignore the low feats, while doing the opposite for someone else.

[JACK-2]

Or just copy and paste respect threads, mis-interpert scans, and ignore circumstances or even consistency between feats and what a character can do outside plot.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 2, 2009 21:08:39 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Or just copy and paste respect threads, mis-interpert scans, and ignore circumstances or even consistency between feats and what a character can do outside plot.

I've gotten to the point where I don't even trust them anymore, they'll put a scan in your face and ignore the circumstances.

[JACK-2]

That or they'll just use the feats out of context. One of the reasons why I hate debating characters with plot powers. Because fanboys will never realise or care that plot based abilities cannot function in a versus like they do in a comic. Stats work much better in versus, but they are never used. Hell, I have people claim hand books and profiles are BS because they disagree with there interpretation of a comic. At one point people were using calculations of strength and speed [Which is not bad, but it get's outt hand when things go for the worst :] feats in comic panels. Nevermind that if a writer isn't aware that something this big or moving this fast has alot of physical reprocutions and isn't a physics major you will end up with inconsistent feats. Fanboys will use those feats like they are canon, but ignore stats because they contradict on-panel feats even if plot is involved [Like it always is.] because it's convienent for their character. There are so many things wrong with versuses that addressing them gives me a head ache.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 5, 2009 7:25:23 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

That or they'll just use the feats out of context. One of the reasons why I hate debating characters with plot powers. Because fanboys will never realise or care that plot based abilities cannot function in a versus like they do in a comic. Stats work much better in versus, but they are never used. Hell, I have people claim hand books and profiles are BS because they disagree with there interpretation of a comic. At one point people were using calculations of strength and speed [Which is not bad, but it get's outt hand when things go for the worst :] feats in comic panels. Nevermind that if a writer isn't aware that something this big or moving this fast has alot of physical reprocutions and isn't a physics major you will end up with inconsistent feats. Fanboys will use those feats like they are canon, but ignore stats because they contradict on-panel feats even if plot is involved [Like it always is.] because it's convienent for their character. There are so many things wrong with versuses that addressing them gives me a head ache.

Stats ARE much better because people act like the match will go like it did in a comic, often ignoring the fact that comics have plots and interruptions (like rescuing someone, or not really wanting to fight), fanboys use stats when they want to.

For instance, Wolverine is apparently a 2 tonner now because of some exaggerated feats, when he is normally peak strength, but I'd give him extra strength when he is trying harder, because adrenaline is running through their system.

But because of that, shouldn't Spiderman be a 70 tonner? I mean he's lifted all types of heavy things when he was angry or in desperation. But if you said that the fanboy would go back to Spiderman being "15 tons as stated by Marvel." Although he was 25 for a second, but not anymore.

[JACK-2]

The way I see it is that their class qualification is their average strength and anything higher has them going all out. Also, When did spidey lift 70 tons of weight becaue that might be out of his range? Then again I've seen a strength tier list which ranked Spider-man with Collosus. So, it's kinda hard to say, because Spidey has some character traits that hold him back:

1] He holds back his power very often because he really doesn't want to maime or kill his enemy. He's never really had the will to kill an enemy no matter what they do. Though, he's been tempted too every so often.

2] He's got low self-esteem due to being a victim of bullying.

So, it's possible his average lifting strength or his official stats are taking that into account. We would have to do a strength feat Calculation to be really sure and I'm not really versed on how to do so. I can't I can trust calculations from people who can which is sad to say.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 5, 2009 23:55:09 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

The way I see it is that their class qualification is their average strength and anything higher has them going all out. Also, When did spidey lift 70 tons of weight becaue that might be out of his range? Then again I've seen a strength tier list which ranked Spider-man with Collosus. So, it's kinda hard to say, because Spidey has some character traits that hold him back:

1] He holds back his power very often because he really doesn't want to maime or kill his enemy. He's never really had the will to kill an enemy no matter what they do. Though, he's been tempted too every so often.

2] He's got low self-esteem due to being a victim of bullying.

So, it's possible his average lifting strength or his official stats are taking that into account. We would have to do a strength feat Calculation to be really sure and I'm not really versed on how to do so. I can't I can trust calculations from people who can which is sad to say.

Well there was the Tank, the train, and that cable car he did with a finger. This is off topic, so I'm going to make a Spidey respect thread (a light one anyways) and put stuff and there. It'll have a few things, it won't be the "best ever" by any means though. Anybody can add to it.

[JACK-2]

I think he was going all out for that train and wasn't he Cosmic Spidey with the Cable Car?
A Spidey respect thread huh, I think we should diferentiate ourselves by covering mostly Stats from hand books and different versions as opposed to feats. You should make a banner for it so it can look nice.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 6, 2009 10:20:41 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I think he was going all out for that train and wasn't he Cosmic Spidey with the Cable Car?
A Spidey respect thread huh, I think we should diferentiate ourselves by covering mostly Stats from hand books and different versions as opposed to feats. You should make a banner for it so it can look nice.

Nah he was normal and that was my point, if we go by his "any" feats, he would definitely be in that range, that was what I'm talking about when people say he's a 2 tonner or whatever nonsense and use obscure lifting feats.

[JACK-2]

Wel, to be fair the Cable Car was at an angle when he did that. Still impressive nonetheless, Fanboys just hype it to the next level as always. Yeah, he is stronger on average than his profile. Though, I wish I new how much that Cable car weighs.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I can't remember whether it was bent towards him or not, but a flick is no joke. Then of course there was the jeep before Spiderman went back in time, he tossed that thing at the top of a building.

I wasn't even really saying average persay, since Spiderman doesn't rely on strength as much as his other abilities. I was more or less saying that if I go by top feats only he would seem significantly stronger on a regular basis.

I can't say I hear many fanboys making a big deal out of Spiderman's strength, the ones that I found the most diehard (even amongst the teenagers) were actually misinformed and thought he was in the 10 or 15 range when he was a 25 at the time.

[JACK-2]

I was referring to debate fanboys you know the people who just defend a character because it's popular to believe a character is this strong and know nothing of his history. Which is why the misinterperting scans bandwagon is so popular. The whole "Spider-Man can tag Quick Silver fiasco" is an example. I was referring to those people A.K.A. posers.

[Pr]

I personally think flash is overrated on the forums, but not to the degree that people might think.

the problem, imo, stems from the fact that flash is so insanely powerful that it can become hard for writers to actually write him without dumbing him down. mark waid and geoff johns did it well enough, but the recent wally writers have been, well, shit.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I think all characters can be overrated by certain members. It's more of the fact that Flash is dumbed down over 90% of the time for the sake of the plot, that people are really surprised when he has the power he does. Kinda like on the Justice League show (as a mild example).