The Right To Protect Yourself and Your Property.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Due to an unfortunate event that happened to one of our members and a poster who was very marxist, I've wanted to pose this question for a while.

To what extent does the right to protect yourself and your property go? Do people have a right to steal if they "need" something? Do you have a right to impede their ability to do so from your own property, your neighbors, or your family's?

How do you feel about this?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 11, 2016 19:26:17 GMT -5 MGNoxa said:

Jan 11, 2016 19:08:47 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Due to an unfortunate event that happened to one of our members and a poster who was very marxist, I've wanted to pose this question for a while.

To what extent does the right to protect yourself and your property go? Do people have a right to steal if they "need" something? Do you have a right to impede their ability to do so from your own property, your neighbors, or your families?

How do you feel about this?

When it comes to neighbours I don't think my neighbours should feel responsible to stop someone, I would like to think that them successfully stopping someone breaking into my house would be rewarded with kindness but I don't think they necessarily need the right to protect my property.

When it comes to me in the UK protecting myself... It gets tricky. I could punch them once and if it hurts them bad, I'm in trouble. I don't think I can legally trap them either, I'm not 100% on this but If i caught one and tied them up I think they will be able to walk free.

Getting broken into tonight, it's scary, especially walking in on them. The problem is my brain didn't jump to "What about the law?" It jumped to "I need to protect myself." We're humans, our instincts take over in the face of danger, that's fight or flight, if I would've fought and won and put them in hospital I wouldn't be writing this message right now, I might not be in jail but the police would probably still be here and I would have a lot of trouble and the potential issue of being sued by the men who I just protected myself from.

Obviously this law needs to be in place to keep people safe, but how far does it need to go? I'm not going to capture them and torture them till they die and claim it was self defense, I would like the comfort of knowing that me keeping my metal bat and using it on an intruder isn't going to land me in jail.

Almost ten years ago I knew someone that left their front door open, someone opened it and walked in and tried to attack this person. He defended himself and beat the crap out of them. He called an ambulance and police. About two days later police were knocking on his door because this guy he defended himself from pressed charges...

As long as Criminals have more rights than people like me, they will keep breaking into houses because they know no one other than the police can stop them.

I don't know who said "they have a right to steal" but nobody has that right. This isn't Robin Hood we're talking about, this is someone that wants the money to fuel their own disgusting habits and they will hurt innocent people to do that.

There's places you can go for free food, especially in winter, it's not the nicest food but it's warm and if you're stealing for your family they will give you food for your family, no questions. Why don't they go there? Because 99% of the idiots stealing are doing this because they are criminal scum. They have no right to steal.

Where the fuck is The Punisher?

The person who came up with the idea that people have a right to steal was MisterLC, who was a diehard Marxist who went around talking about "caring for others". The idea that a person has the RIGHT to steal from me is just mindboggling. I don't care if it's voted for or done directly, theft is theft. Once people are emboldened to take what they don't have by stealing it gets worse and worse. These people can just claim they need anything and steal it, but he couldn't see that even though he admitted he was burglarized and thought it was terrible but he wanted to steal from people like me who had more than he did. Disgusting.

Societies which protect lowlifes and bums like this by giving them extra rights just promote this kind of behavior and it destroys society.

I don't think neighbors should be obligated to protect others, but do you think you should be able to stop a crook from breaking into a neighbors house and potentially risking their family or their property?

A person's right to steal doesn't go over my own right to protect myself. These people can get food or help from a variety of sources but choose not to because they feel they are above the law. They have no regard for anybody other than themselves and since the gun control and protection laws are so lax in some places that they just don't care. We have a crazy system that protects these morons and harms us. We have stuff like that here also where a person defends themselves and gets sued. Just nonsense for me.

As far as I'm concerned if a person tries to break in and steal from me I have a right to defend myself, even if it costs the thief their own life. I value my life and property over that of a thief.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 11, 2016 20:09:10 GMT -5 MGNoxa said:

Jan 11, 2016 19:46:02 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I don't think neighbors should be obligated to protect others, but do you think you should be able to stop a crook from breaking into a neighbors house and potentially risking their family or their property?

If I protected my neighbours property I would be pissed if it got me in trouble. I think there should be some protection for neighbours but at the same time I think the government is worried that giving neighbours protection might make some feel obligated to help or might put people in danger who would've otherwise just of called the police.

Well people can call the police if they want. I don't think giving people the freedom makes them feel obligated. Now if it's banned you have no choice. Do you see anything wrong with having the free choice to do it in your neighborhood??

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

How does the government look at giving the people the right to steal from you? What the government does makes no sense. You have neighborhood watch people in some neighborhoods already. I don't see how people would feel forced.

If you choose to protect someone being attacked in the streets would you feel forced to do it?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

We shouldn't make laws based on what the stupid do or think; that's part of the problem.

You're not forced to protect others, or to protect yourself. Having a right to do something is not the same as being forced to do something. The government is forcing you not to be able to protect yourself so how is that ok?

I don't see how having the right to do something is the same as being forced to do it. Having the right means not having legal repercussions for it. If you have a right to buy a car that's not the same as being forced to buy a car. Having a right to vote is not the same as being forced to vote. Having the right to buy a cigarette is not the same as being forced to.

If the government no longer penalized people for defending themselves or their neighbors by making it completely legal to do, how is it forcing them to do it? I mean it's no different than having the legal ability to drive your car. It's not the same thing as forcing one to buy.


If the government said you are FORCED to do it, then yea it's wrong. Saying, "We won't punish you." is not the same thing. How would they enforce that? Would they incarcerate the nearest person every time something happens for not taking action?  It would be insane to do that.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Has anybody given the indication that they believe that a right to protect yourself is the same as the government conscripting you to do it? I'm asking honestly because if that's true they're the dumbest people I've ever heard of.

Not that the government should be making laws based on what the stupid want. Not seeing how it being illegal to protect yourself is better than having a right. I guess that's kind of the gun control argument, though a right to own a gun isn't the same as being forced to own.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 11, 2016 21:07:37 GMT -5 MGNoxa said:

Jan 11, 2016 21:04:38 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Has anybody given the indication that they believe that a right to protect yourself is the same as the government conscripting you to do it? I'm asking honestly because if that's true they're the dumbest people I've ever heard of.

Not that the government should be making laws based on what the stupid want. Not seeing how it being illegal to protect yourself is better than having a right. I guess that's kind of the gun control argument, though a right to own a gun isn't the same as being forced to own.

Being in the UK I haven't thought much of gun control and I don't want to turn this into a gun control debate but I can see how the right to own a gun might force some to own a gun out of fear of others owning guns.

Is there any proof of stupid people doing what I said? Not that I know of but you gotta remember that there's people out there that are incredibly dumb, so dumb, way dumber than you think is even possible.

I'm not getting into gun control because of that, but force doesn't equal a right.

Criminals will own guns anyways so how does having the right make them forced to when they were defenseless before? We have guns here and nobody is "forced" to own one. Maybe in a bad neighborhood for certain people, but not for most.

I just don't buy the government isn't passing this law because they're scared of people feeling "forced". The government is already forcing people to do all sorts of things from welfare to not protecting themselves. So why would they care about force here?

These laws are about control not caring. The one exception to the rule shouldn't have a law made around him because he's stupid. "Feeling" forced is not the same thing as "being" forced. People feel unsafe and what's the government doing about that?

We shouldn't make laws based on feelings.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

So are you more libertarian, liberal, conservative? Just curious. You seem like you have a liberal slant, but you seem to have a free loving slant too.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Well I'm into the freedom camp. Meaning I have a right to live how I want as long as I don't hurt anybody or steal from them. I don't want government running my life and I don't want others deciding what is good for me or them via voting.

I believe in voluntary charity and the free market, things like that.


I'm not into huge military, drug prohibition, gays not being allowed to married, etc. I also don't believe certain groups deserve special treatment because they fit into a "protected class".

That's me in a nutshell.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I figured when I explained it that way. You're probably a bit more PC, but we'll work on you.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

You're fine on the female part for the most part.

[cyclonebreak]

This country law states that even "criminals" have rights...
So even if you catch someone breaking into your crib & stealing..they are still protected. Smh
Do I agree?? No....because that "criminal" made a probable bad situation occur with the fact that he had no right or business being there...so why should I pay the penalty of fucking his ass up when he broke the law and invaded my home or property with the sole intent of committing a crime?? Fuck that.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 12, 2016 4:19:28 GMT -5 cyclonebreak said:

This country law states that even "criminals" have rights...
So even if you catch someone breaking into your crib & stealing..they are still protected. Smh
Do I agree?? No....because that "criminal" made a probable bad situation occur with the fact that he had no right or business being there...so why should I pay the penalty of fucking his ass up when he broke the law and invaded my home or property with the sole intent of committing a crime?? Fuck that.

Sadly that's how our society has gone. People who are stealing have more rights than the victims which is what a government is supposed to be there for, to protect the RIGHTS of others who have done no harm.

Imagine applying that logic to raping women (since vaginas are sacred).

"A man has needs and he should have the right to take what he wants and you shouldn't be able to defend yourself or get help."

People would be in an uproar. It's just stupid.

That said criminals should have some rights. The right to an attorney, and if they are in prison they shouldn't be encouraging prisoners to murder each other.

A person can be considered a criminal for a lot of stupid reasons in our society so we have to look out for that too. I don't see it as a "criminal" issue per say but the fact that people don't have the right to invade my property and steal.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Good stuff.


Eventually people will fight back to defend themselves if cornered.

[misterlc]

Try to understand that while one human has the ability to do whatever is in their power to do, so do other humans. So if somebody is breaking into your house to steal your stuff and you blow his head off you are not doing anything wrong, regardless to whether he was starving or not. He was a thief, and you killed him for trying to steal from you. In my opinion this does NOT make you a murderer but I'm sure that somebody would disagree with that.

Now let's say that this thief succeeds in taking your stuff and takes it to his house and you know who it is. You call the police and somehow he gets them to side with him (because the world can be unfair at times) The police say that you are making false claims and threaten to penalize you even though you and the thief both know that he stole your stuff. I say that you are not wrong for taking your stuff back just because the police will then label you a thief if you are caught.

I recant any idea that someone has a 'right' to steal. I do believe that there is no wrong done when people protect themselves by any means necessary. This would include protecting themselves from coerced starvation which does exist on earth though not in the U.S. realistically.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

So you've now changed your opinion on people having the right to steal now?

Who is being coerced into starvation? If it happens it is extremely, EXTREMELY rare. 99.99999999% of humans are not being starved by coercion. They do it for personal gain by violating the rights of others.

I don't care if someone calls me a murderer for doing it. I have a right to do it and the thief deserves it. The legal system is not always right but it's designed to be secular and not based on emotions or religion. It's quite easy to prove your property has been stolen via receipts, signs of breaking in, etc. You can't steal something that's yours because it's yours by definition.

So the notion of people using needs to justify violence doesn't even work. Unless someone is trapped in a dungeon and forced to starve or something similar it's a non issue. Who doesn't understand that people can't do what they want? That's pretty obvious by these thieves who chose to steal because they wanted something without having to work for it which is what 99.99999999% of thieves steal for, not because they are coerced into starvation.

If you've recanted your previous statement that's good to hear. Just making sure as I didn't want to have to go down this road again after what happened in the other thread and have to deal with it in a different manner than before.