East Coast Brotherhood of Steel vs New California Republic

[Darkstorm Zero]

I made this debate in a few other places around, so check those out here, here, and here.

The rules are fairly straight forward. The NCR get whatever post FNV favors them including DLC outcomes and alliances, then say, pre time up to post 5 years fallout 4, which is 2292, a full 11 years post FNV.

The Brotherhood get all their stuff from Fallout 3 and 4, plus DLCs

---

Now, IMHO, if this were simply a matter of numbers, then the NCR steamrolls, because the NCR is a large nation, with a population over 2 million and a military force numbering in the hundreds of thousand. However, as anyone knows, numbers are but one aspect of winning a war, and the ECBoS has a shitload more power and reach behind it, especially now.

The capture of Adams Air Force Base from the Enclave has given the Brotherhood production capabilities for things like advanced energy weapons, power armor, a vastly superior fleet of Vertibirds, and the means to produce parts for repairing Liberty Prime, along with other robots.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

So you think the technological and military gap isn't large enough to make a difference in the numbers?

[Darkstorm Zero]

IMO, the Brotherhood's technological edge is far too great this time. Not to mention strategic advantages of things like the Prydwen airship, A whole shitload more Vertibirds that they can replace, and of course Liberty Prime. I havn't even counted things like the basecrawler restoration possibility, or the untouchable advantage Zeta may provide.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I see what you are saying.

What areas do you see the NCR having an advantage in then?

[Darkstorm Zero]

The NCR still has the numbers advantage to my present knowledge. They also have elite training regimens and can replace lost soldiers on the fly, as long as their logistics arn't in the toilet like it was against the Legion, then they should do rather well on the ground against regular ECBoS Paladins. The problem arises when the Brotherhood deploys things like Prime, or Vertibird/Prydwen airstrike spam. The NCR doesn't have the means to stop this up front. NCR Frontiers will be crushed quickly, but as the Brotherhood pushes deeper, things may change, as the numbers begin to show on the ground. The NCR DOES in fact possess infrastructure such as farming and agriculture, power supplies, and factories. The NCR has been shown to be able to produce pulse weapons which is debilitating to robots and power armor.

In the end though, the Brotherhood does now possess the numbers they need to deal crippling deep strikes on the NCR. They train all their warriors effectively for years before giving them their armor and weapons, unlike the regular NCR Military bootcamp where they give you 3 weeks of drills before sending you ass to the front in nothing but fatigues and basic semi auto carbine rifles. They would be no match for a more trained, experienced and better co-ordinated brotherhood, who also have numerous variable strategic advantages.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 4, 2016 5:47:19 GMT -5 Darkstorm Zero said:

The NCR still has the numbers advantage to my present knowledge. They also have elite training regimens and can replace lost soldiers on the fly, as long as their logistics arn't in the toilet like it was against the Legion, then they should do rather well on the ground against regular ECBoS Paladins. The problem arises when the Brotherhood deploys things like Prime, or Vertibird/Prydwen airstrike spam. The NCR doesn't have the means to stop this up front. NCR Frontiers will be crushed quickly, but as the Brotherhood pushes deeper, things may change, as the numbers begin to show on the ground. The NCR DOES in fact possess infrastructure such as farming and agriculture, power supplies, and factories. The NCR has been shown to be able to produce pulse weapons which is debilitating to robots and power armor.

In the end though, the Brotherhood does now possess the numbers they need to deal crippling deep strikes on the NCR. They train all their warriors effectively for years before giving them their armor and weapons, unlike the regular NCR Military bootcamp where they give you 3 weeks of drills before sending you ass to the front in nothing but fatigues and basic semi auto carbine rifles. They would be no match for a more trained, experienced and better co-ordinated brotherhood, who also have numerous variable strategic advantages.

So it's a Protoss vs Zerg thing.

What would be the best weapons for mass damage for each team? Some big nuke style weapons?

[Darkstorm Zero]

Jun 4, 2016 6:53:29 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

So it's a Protoss vs Zerg thing.

What would be the best weapons for mass damage for each team? Some big nuke style weapons?

That depends on how you look at it.

The NCR has Fatman mininukes, limited numbers of Vertibirds, and if we go into deep left field, they have access to Big Mt's technology, and the Divide's stoickpile of Nuclear ICBMs.

The Brotherhood have vast numbers of laster and plasma weaponry, fatmen as well. Prime's military Liberty Lasers and hurled mininuke footballs, the Crawler's Satelite fired missiles, A more veried and numerous fleet of Vertibirds, and, as for deep left for them, they have Zeta's tech, such as the Deathray that reduced Quebec into a hole in the ground.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

How large is the environment they're fighting on?

[Darkstorm Zero]

Well, considering the ECBoS are returning to California from the East Coast... You could say it's the entire south west USA?




Now, this 2nd image shows whats happening as of fallout 3. The difference here is that the Legion is effectively broken, while everything the Enclave had is now in the hands of the ECBoS, along with everything between Washington up to and including Massachusetts.
With the ECBoS trying to link back up with the Lost Hills main chapter, the ECBoS has a long haul right into the heartlands of the NCR.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

My reason for wondering is for the logistics of weapon usage.

It's reminding me of the North vs the South in the civil war. One side had more numbers and even willing participants but the training and resources were just too much.

[Darkstorm Zero]

Jun 4, 2016 8:00:07 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

My reason for wondering is for the logistics of weapon usage.

It's reminding me of the North vs the South in the civil war. One side had more numbers and even willing participants but the training and resources were just too much.

Yeah. Air transport of supplies gives the BOS an advantage, at least early on. But the NCR territories actually have working railways and stuff, not to mention a lot of large caravan businesses are headquartered there. so once you push from NCR frontiers in to heartland territories, Supply logistics could sway.

And yeah, I can see your comparative there

So, how do you think this'll play out?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I'm trying to think of any naval advantage I might have overlooked.

[Darkstorm Zero]

Jun 4, 2016 8:42:16 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I'm trying to think of any naval advantage I might have overlooked.

Eeeeeh, there isn't really any oceanic navy on either side. Ocean fairing has not been seen since the destruction of the Enclave Oil Rig on the west coast nearly 40 years before the events of FO4. The reason being is that the radiation and mutated critters in the sea are incredibly dangerous.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I'm opting for the superior resources and skill then. You don't need to kill all of the enemy. Just strategically take out the best points.

[Darkstorm Zero]

Eh well, your more reasonable than most, especially when I did the original threads a few years ago. Back then, all anyone could say that the NCR was too large and too well equipped to be dealt with by the smaller Capital Wasteland Brotherhood, despite all the advantages I believed they had post FO3 and Broken Steel.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 4, 2016 9:16:03 GMT -5 Darkstorm Zero said:

Eh well, your more reasonable than most, especially when I did the original threads a few years ago. Back then, all anyone could say that the NCR was too large and too well equipped to be dealt with by the smaller Capital Wasteland Brotherhood, despite all the advantages I believed they had post FO3 and Broken Steel.

You still sound a bit disappointed. Who are you going for?

[Darkstorm Zero]

Heh, I sided with the ECBoS, both times

That being said, I've got threads going on 3 other forums... Even KMC, but that one is deader than doornails. the only one I've gotten responses from has been Spacebattles.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 4, 2016 9:30:46 GMT -5 Darkstorm Zero said:

Heh, I sided with the ECBoS, both times

That being said, I've got threads going on 3 other forums... Even KMC, but that one is deader than doornails. the only one I've gotten responses from has been Spacebattles.

I made a Faye Valentine vs Fujiko Mine thread, never got any responses. I really wanted to see what people think about that one.

[Darkstorm Zero]

I would have, but I know nothing about either character, and instead of babbling like a fool about things I don't know, like a few people we know from certain places, I tend to wait and try to see what others think.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 4, 2016 9:42:25 GMT -5 Darkstorm Zero said:

I would have, but I know nothing about either character, and instead of babbling like a fool about things I don't know, like a few people we know from certain places, I tend to wait and try to see what others think.

Yea that's why we ask questions first instead of making things up.

The thread is here:

thacmaster.proboards.com/thread/2830/fujiko-mine-faye-valentine