Analysis: Why Fighting Games Are Hard.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

[JACK-2]

I'm watching the video right now, but what do you think about what he said of 1f links. I remember you telling me you thought they were BS.

[JACK-2]

Anyway, I think the extracredit video was better. This seemed more like apologetics than offering solutions, but I did like this comment:

"This is why Smash Bros is possibly the most unique fighting game out there. On the beginner level, there is basically a casual gameplay mode that anyone can enjoy because it doesn't require much skill to play. But higher up, Smash can be just as complicated as any other fighter requiring just as much skill to win."

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

1f links are arbitrary for the reason mentioned. No matter how good you get at them you can't do them 99% of the time and people were plinking anyways which made it 2d and still were dropping it. Even pros. I could land them the majority of the time and still didn't like them. Especially since different game versions had different lag on different systems, plus lag online, etc. Just a mess to deal with.

I don't think it's because Smash is so easy to play. If I play SF I have to hit you until you die, in Smash I hit you until you fall off of the ceiling. You can do both at a basic level. Smash just has more appeal to it because of the Nintendo characters and the visuals. That's mostly where the selling point comes down too. PSAS made the same approach and didn't do as well. Although you could say that game had the highest skill floor because you had to use supers to kill your enemy but it wasn't really hard to pick up. FG's are the easiest to learn and the hardest to master. When I was a kid I just hit the controller wildly and had fun. I could give the controller to a cousin or something and do the same. I didn't have to be at my current skill level to enjoy it.

I thought the video had some good points. Fighting games are just brutal and people don't want to have to go through the pain, and that has a lot to do with it. In that regard I just say play people your own skill level, then that won't be an issue. One problem is people want their hands held more nowadays too. Same with the Overwatch community wanting everything nerfed instead of getting better.


Speaking of Overwatch, it has a lot in common with Smash. They both appeal to people who don't play those genres (FPS and fighters respectively) and they use character designs, visuals, and different modes to do it. They also dumbed down a lot of mechanics (you don't really need to aim much in Overwatch at all unless you're Widow sniping) and in Smash you don't really need to worry about the kind of execution you do in other fighters. That said FPS games still sold like crazy before Overwatch came along, and fighters like MK sell a lot even with Smash. I think the difference is that Overwatch and Smash just give people a different experience. Most people who play Overwatch or Smash are not looking to play fighters or shooters but just a fun game. Hell most don't even see Smash as a fighter, not even the ones who play it. Of course the dedicated players do and will argue with you until they are blue in the face, but the people who play SF aren't like the people who play Smash casually. Those people play it because it's a fun game, a Nintendo game, or something like that. Not because the want to play a "fighter".


Also every game has a skill cap and ceiling. Overwatch for instance still has competitive play despite being super easy to play, but I wouldn't say it's Counter Strike hard at top levels. Smash isn't like Virtua Fighter hard, but it does get hard at competitive levels.

[JACK-2]

Well, the Overwatch had those crappy whine nerfs right? I hate stuff like that, but Crapcom fanboys often view everything as hand holding too: Tutorials for example. The fact that fanmade tutorials are a thing can be annoying. Granted, user generated tutorials aren't always a bad thing. I use Youtube vids and google for alot of PC troubleshooting and it's effective on average too. But, I don't like the elitism of the SF community it can be a major turn off.

I think you hit the money about the fun experience thing. NRS fighters are popular because of the: Characters, Story and Violence (MK). They also have alot of modes like challenge tour and tons of mini games. Having elements like that help casuals get in because veyone starts off as casuals. Games like SF seem t go straight for the hardcore audience even when they say they aren't. Capcom just sucks at marketing it's self.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 18, 2016 9:13:05 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Well, the Overwatch had those crappy whine nerfs right? I hate stuff like that, but Crapcom fanboys often view everything as hand holding too: Tutorials for example. The fact that fanmade tutorials are a thing can be annoying. Granted, user generated tutorials aren't always a bad thing. I use Youtube vids and google for alot of PC troubleshooting and it's effective on average too. But, I don't like the elitism of the SF community it can be a major turn off.

I think you hit the money about the fun experience thing. NRS fighters are popular because of the: Characters, Story and Violence (MK). They also have alot of modes like challenge tour and tons of mini games. Having elements like that help casuals get in because veyone starts off as casuals. Games like SF seem t go straight for the hardcore audience even when they say they aren't. Capcom just sucks at marketing it's self.

Lots of game have those whining nerfs, but Blizzard is notorious for it. I'm just drawing a parallel with Overwatch and Smash in terms of appeal. Many people who act elitist are generally terrible.

Nowadays there is tons of media for people to get better, but SF should have things like frame data and hitboxes more accessible as there's no reason to hide them. It just creates more of a gap than necessary. I wouldn't care about the "community" as much if they didn't have an impact on gameplay. After hearing all of the awful whiners in Overwatch, hearing people say "Git Gud" would be a welcome change.

As long as you can play people who are cool and give you no grief you should be fine.

I think games should be easy to pick up and play but still have things to master and shouldn't punish skill. This is a problem I have with Overwatch's direction and I'm currently making a video on it with commentary right now.