Duke Nukem vs. Solid Snake

[nikkolas]

Who would win?

No weapons for either.

Just their fists and feet or in Duke's case, his Mighty Foot.

[Dja Majista]

hmm...
Snake knows about a bazillion killing techniques and Duke hasn't really shown anything like that aside from the foot... Even if Duke did use his hands, he'd probably get bested in technique.
I'd go with Snake.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

nikkolas said:

Who would win?

No weapons for either.

Just their fists and feet or in Duke's case, his Mighty Foot.

Duke is an ex-marine commando though, he can fight. Snake might have shown more techniques, but his physicality is on a much lower level. He hasn't shown the superhuman feats that Duke has. The wierd thing about Duke is that he was actually written to be practically immortal. His life force is actually (canonically) based on his ego, he's badass like that.

But even Snake has the technique, he is far from Duke physically, so I'd give Duke the win.

[Dja Majista]

Duke is immortal? geez, that's kind of unfair.
Remember their tactics are almost opposite though. Snake will be going for the element of surprise, something he's more than capable of achieving.
While Duke is certainly tough, Snake's physicality is nothing to sneeze at either. If you played the games, you'll see he has pulled off some wild moves, and always come down to a silent landing. The things he does on a regular basis take a ton of sttrength.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

Duke is immortal? geez, that's kind of unfair.
Remember their tactics are almost opposite though. Snake will be going for the element of surprise, something he's more than capable of achieving.
While Duke is certainly tough, Snake's physicality is nothing to sneeze at either. If you played the games, you'll see he has pulled off some wild moves, and always come down to a silent landing. The things he does on a regular basis take a ton of sttrength.

He won't be able to use the element of surprise in a straight up fight when the opponent is expecting him. Duke has to sneak around in his games as well, though not as much because he's much stronger. If Snake was as powerful as Duke he'd be able to go through his opponents without using stealth as much. Duke's character is simply built on a more unrealistic level.

[Dja Majista]

Well there wasn't really a specification as to how they start the fight, so it's not necessarily a straight up fight.
Secondly, the question is not if snake were as powerful as his opponants then he would be able to go through them. Snake never has the kind of gung ho arsenal Duke has. He gets by with what modest killing tools he comes across in his missions and, element of surprise or no, is accustomed to killing with his bear hands. Also, his opponants are hardly to be measured on the same level as Duke's. Snake faces intelligent human enemies. Duke faces aliens with relatively small intelligence; none of which are controlled by a central authority, not strategically anyway... If Snake was put in Duke's game, it's true, he'd be screwed; he can't carry enough weapons, and he'd probably be too slow. But if Duke were put in Snake's game, with the limited weaponry, and enemies that need only press a button to strategically call in reinforcements, Duke would also be screwed. Granted, if he does have immortality like your talking about, then he would be just fine, and I would have no argument.

Anyway all that's not very relevant. After all, this fight is hand-to-hand so experience with weapons doesn't really do anyone any good. My main point is that Snake is accustomed to fighting humans; Duke is accustomed to fighting aliens. Snake is highly trained and experienced with unarmed killing techniques. Duke is great with his weapons but he doesn't show the unarmed combat proficiency snake does.
Unless he can survive his neck getting snapped I don't think Duke will be doing most of the winning.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

Well there wasn't really a specification as to how they start the fight, so it's not necessarily a straight up fight.
Secondly, the question is not if snake were as powerful as his opponants then he would be able to go through them. Snake never has the kind of gung ho arsenal Duke has. He gets by with what modest killing tools he comes across in his missions and, element of surprise or no, is accustomed to killing with his bear hands. Also, his opponants are hardly to be measured on the same level as Duke's. Snake faces intelligent human enemies. Duke faces aliens with relatively small intelligence; none of which are controlled by a central authority, not strategically anyway... If Snake was put in Duke's game, it's true, he'd be screwed; he can't carry enough weapons, and he'd probably be too slow. But if Duke were put in Snake's game, with the limited weaponry, and enemies that need only press a button to strategically call in reinforcements, Duke would also be screwed. Granted, if he does have immortality like your talking about, then he would be just fine, and I would have no argument.

Anyway all that's not very relevant. After all, this fight is hand-to-hand so experience with weapons doesn't really do anyone any good. My main point is that Snake is accustomed to fighting humans; Duke is accustomed to fighting aliens. Snake is highly trained and experienced with unarmed killing techniques. Duke is great with his weapons but he doesn't show the unarmed combat proficiency snake does.
Unless he can survive his neck getting snapped I don't think Duke will be doing most of the winning.

I'm generally pretty sure a close up match would be close up. That's how fights are assumed unless specifications are made, or there are stipulations such as "no weapons". If I were to say Duke vs. Snake without putting stipulations, it would be a general weapons match. If he decides to add a special stipulation in that's fine, but he didn't so for now that's how it reads. So that point is kinda moot.

Duke is simply made to operate on a higher level. His enemies are very intelligent, they had advanced technology, they even traveled through time. They are on another level, they are stronger, faster, and have more powerful weapons and higher numbers. They do have a leader, even in the very old Duke, the leaders were geniuses, but the plot doesn't focus on their interractions with each other much. They were trying to drive a hole in San Andreas, and by the time they had finished that their second plan was to take the women to space for their new race (see fourth episode). While Duke was in space they sent their squads back to earth as a contingency plan, by the time Duke finished that they had given birth to the new species. They created automatic self destructive kamikaze robots. They nursed hatcheries, their Octabrians were so smart they fired energy blasts. They are very advanced. Your argument is based off of the AI of an old game. Duke would *not* be screwed in Snake's game. He has taken out hordes of Pig Cops with simply his desert eagle. His character is made to singlehandedly destroy legions of enemies. That's just how his character is built, Snake's character was built to use his intelligence and succeed. Duke's character is more like Lobo, very powerful and fantasy built. Snake is more like a Batman or something to that extent. More humanized.

Normal fighting techniques from a normal human won't work well against someone who is physically superhuman, and he won't get the chance to use most of those in a straight up fight. Where does it say that Duke doesn't know how to fight when he has military/commando experience? The difference is that he doesn't use those techniques because he doesn't need to, and he doesn't really spend his time fighting humans. His enemies already killed them all. Ailens have different anatomies and are heavily armed.

With weapons, Duke wins in a no brainer. He has WMD's, powerful homing weapons, Plasma Canons, etc.

They both have their underling foes, but their main boss enemies are on another level altogether, Snake would stand no chance againt the boss creatures whatsoever. Snake is very susceptible to things like weather conditions, while Duke can stay submerged in water, and survive the deep pressures of it for long periods of time. The man can lift thousands of lbs, I'm not saying Duke is unkillable in the sense that you're thinking, but he's just close. Duke is also faster, much faster than any enemy in any of his games. You've seen how hard he was to hit when we played on the 64 version, he's damned fast, without power ups. So if someone is in a fight against someone vastly stronger than them, vastly faster, and has much better reflexes they'd most likely lose without something in their favor to help them.

And I doubt someone of Snake's strength would snap Duke's neck. Especially with ease. Snake can win, but not the majority in a straight up fight. Unless you plan on explaining how he would consistently get Duke in a situation where he would snap his neck. Bottom line is that Duke is simply on another higher physical level, technique or no. For Snake to win a majority the match would have to be heavily written in his favor.

[Dja Majista]

admin said:

damasta said:

Well there wasn't really a specification as to how they start the fight, so it's not necessarily a straight up fight.
Secondly, the question is not if snake were as powerful as his opponants then he would be able to go through them. Snake never has the kind of gung ho arsenal Duke has. He gets by with what modest killing tools he comes across in his missions and, element of surprise or no, is accustomed to killing with his bear hands. Also, his opponants are hardly to be measured on the same level as Duke's. Snake faces intelligent human enemies. Duke faces aliens with relatively small intelligence; none of which are controlled by a central authority, not strategically anyway... If Snake was put in Duke's game, it's true, he'd be screwed; he can't carry enough weapons, and he'd probably be too slow. But if Duke were put in Snake's game, with the limited weaponry, and enemies that need only press a button to strategically call in reinforcements, Duke would also be screwed. Granted, if he does have immortality like your talking about, then he would be just fine, and I would have no argument.

Anyway all that's not very relevant. After all, this fight is hand-to-hand so experience with weapons doesn't really do anyone any good. My main point is that Snake is accustomed to fighting humans; Duke is accustomed to fighting aliens. Snake is highly trained and experienced with unarmed killing techniques. Duke is great with his weapons but he doesn't show the unarmed combat proficiency snake does.
Unless he can survive his neck getting snapped I don't think Duke will be doing most of the winning.

I'm generally pretty sure a close up match would be close up. That's how fights are assumed unless specifications are made, or there are stipulations such as "no weapons". If I were to say Duke vs. Snake without putting stipulations, it would be a general weapons match. If he decides to add a special stipulation in that's fine, but he didn't so for now that's how it reads. So that point is kinda moot.

Oh come on. I didn't say it wasn't close up did I? I said "straight up", and in your bottom paragraph you demonstrate a concurrent understanding of what that means in the context I'm using. So don't play dumb either; I'm watchin you buddy.

Anyway, he said: No weapons for either.

Just their fists and feet or in Duke's case, his Mighty Foot.

You can take that as literally as possible, and say just martial arts punching and kicking. Or you could take it to just mean "No weapons." But no kind of interpretation could really say: "It's a straight-up cage match fight." We may have to wait for the topic creator on this one. It could really go either way.

Duke is simply made to operate on a higher level. His enemies are very intelligent, they had advanced technology, they even traveled through time. They are on another level, they are stronger, faster, and have more powerful weapons and higher numbers. They do have a leader, even in the very old Duke, the leaders were geniuses, but the plot doesn't focus on their interractions with each other much. They were trying to drive a hole in San Andreas, and by the time they had finished that their second plan was to take the women to space for their new race (see fourth episode). While Duke was in space they sent their squads back to earth as a contingency plan, by the time Duke finished that they had given birth to the new species. They created automatic self destructive kamikaze robots. They nursed hatcheries, their Octabrians were so smart they fired energy blasts. They are very advanced. Your argument is based off of the AI of an old game. Duke would *not* be screwed in Snake's game. He has taken out hordes of Pig Cops with simply his desert eagle. His character is made to singlehandedly destroy legions of enemies. That's just how his character is built, Snake's character was built to use his intelligence and succeed. Duke's character is more like Lobo, very powerful and fantasy built. Snake is more like a Batman or something to that extent. More humanized.

While I understand everything here this is kind of an unrelated argument that I started further up. Though I appreciate the history lesson ;D. It's not about who beats whose games and who's the better killer. It's about which one wins in hand-to-hand combat. Otherwise, I address the relevant points further down.

Normal fighting techniques from a normal human won't work well against someone who is physically superhuman, and he won't get the chance to use most of those in a straight up fight. Where does it say that Duke doesn't know how to fight when he has military/commando experience? The difference is that he doesn't use those techniques because he doesn't need to, and he doesn't really spend his time fighting humans. His enemies already killed them all. Ailens have different anatomies and are heavily armed.

(When did I say he didn't know how to fight?)
a) normal killing techniques, executed by an outstanding human, are capable of killing other humans (more powerful or not) who contain the same vital structures those techniques target.
b)we still don't know if it's a straight up fight.
c) If Duke has been fighting aliens the whole time, his lack of experience in fighting humans will only hurt him here.

With weapons, Duke wins in a no brainer. He has WMD's, powerful homing weapons, Plasma Canons, etc.

Yes this is understood.

They both have their underling foes, but their main boss enemies are on another level altogether, Snake would stand no chance againt the boss creatures whatsoever. Snake is very susceptible to things like weather conditions, while Duke can stay submerged in water, and survive the deep pressures of it for long periods of time. The man can lift thousands of lbs, I'm not saying Duke is unkillable in the sense that you're thinking, but he's just close. Duke is also faster, much faster than any enemy in any of his games. You've seen how hard he was to hit when we played on the 64 version, he's damned fast, without power ups. So if someone is in a fight against someone vastly stronger than them, vastly faster, and has much better reflexes they'd most likely lose without something in their favor to help them.

again, more of the who's better than who. I have no doubt that Duke is a better killer than Snake especially when it comes to weapons, but he doesn't surpass snake on every single level (the key one being stealth).

And I doubt someone of Snake's strength would snap Duke's neck. Especially with ease. Snake can win, but not the majority in a straight up fight. Unless you plan on explaining how he would consistently get Duke in a situation where he would snap his neck. Bottom line is that Duke is simply on another higher physical level, technique or no. For Snake to win a majority the match would have to be heavily written in his favor.

How strong do you think Snake is? If your saying that Duke is simply superhuman and is physically as strong as a super hero, then fine, I'll recall my argument. You know more about him than me (but I'd like to see some evidence). But to my understanding, he doesn't have that kind of strength in the games. Otherwise his mighty foot would do a lot more damage than a bullet from his automatic pistol.
Anyway I hope you understand that in order for his neck to resist snapping, he would have to resist the compiled force of one of snake's arms pulling and the other pushing at full strength while Duke has relatively little time to react.

Essentially my argument is that snake has proficiency in the few places where duke is weak. He's got the tools to cut into the holes of Duke's armor. It's a loop hole victory if you will. Though I agree, in a straight up face-to-face fight, Duke would win the majority at least.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Not playing dumb, actually I'm pretty sure I pasted the rules (if I haven't I need to) which specify the meaning of such matches. The way you are arguing makes it seem like he'll sneak up on Duke and do the same thing to him while Duke stands there.

You really are unsure that Duke can do superhuman things? Watch any of his video's or read any of his history, his character is based on being a egomaniacs wet dream. He has fought several humans in the past, and he had human enemies in 3d but they were scrapped (I'm not sure if he will or will not fight them in the new one). I know he was fighting infested ones, which are more powerful than normal humans. I remember the guy asking him if he was going to single-handedly save the world by himself. That once again shows how his character is written. Don't get me wrong, both are cool, and I like both. One is just more "up there" with his abilities. More "uber", more "ridiculous".

I know Snake isn't just an average joe, don't get me wrong. My point is that he isn't strong enough to avoid getting his head ripped off by a person that ripped the head off of something the size of a small semi with ease. Fighting techniques are useful, but such grabs and submission holds (to break someone's neck isn't to necessarily break their vertebrae, but to pop one of the disks out), means that he'll have to get him in a position long enough to do so. That is much harder to do against.

A) A good fighter.

B) Someone who is your vast physical superior.

It's like pitting a human against a polar bear, except the bear can fight and move, and smokes cigars.

Actually I'm glad you brought up the foot part. His foot IS harder than a round from his pistol. In 3d it did twice as much. Time to kill his kick was almost fatal to lesser creatures, such as pig cops and the lizards. In the 64 game zero hour, his punches were fatal. To non-boss creatures.

[Dja Majista]

admin said:

Not playing dumb, actually I'm pretty sure I pasted the rules (if I haven't I need to) which specify the meaning of such matches. The way you are arguing makes it seem like he'll sneak up on Duke and do the same thing to him while Duke stands there.

You really are unsure that Duke can do superhuman things? Watch any of his video's or read any of his history, his character is based on being a egomaniacs wet dream. He has fought several humans in the past, and he had human enemies in 3d but they were scrapped (I'm not sure if he will or will not fight them in the new one). I know he was fighting infested ones, which are more powerful than normal humans. I remember the guy asking him if he was going to single-handedly save the world by himself. That once again shows how his character is written. Don't get me wrong, both are cool, and I like both. One is just more "up there" with his abilities. More "uber", more "ridiculous".

I know Snake isn't just an average joe, don't get me wrong. My point is that he isn't strong enough to avoid getting his head ripped off by a person that ripped the head off of something the size of a small semi with ease. Fighting techniques are useful, but such grabs and submission holds (to break someone's neck isn't to necessarily break their vertebrae, but to pop one of the disks out), means that he'll have to get him in a position long enough to do so. That is much harder to do against.

A) A good fighter.

B) Someone who is your vast physical superior.

It's like pitting a human against a polar bear, except the bear can fight and move, and smokes cigars.

Actually I'm glad you brought up the foot part. His foot IS harder than a round from his pistol. In 3d it did twice as much. Time to kill his kick was almost fatal to lesser creatures, such as pig cops and the lizards. In the 64 game zero hour, his punches were fatal. To non-boss creatures.

Yeah I didn't know it was definitely a straight up fight indicated by the rules...

The way you are arguing makes it seem like he'll sneak up on Duke and do the same thing to him while Duke stands there.

Duke doesn't have to just stand there. Naturally, he'll be on the lookout for his opponant. BUT, when I asked for evidence, I meant evidence of something applicable to the scenario I'm proposing. I KNOW he is generally and overall superhuman. But I wanted evidence of the specifics: such as a strong enough physicality to make his neck strong enough to resist being snapped. Either that or
evidence to say that Dukes senses are also super human. If you have no evidence that he would be able to detect significantly better than other humans then that scenario would still be an effective strategy for snake to take.

(to break someone's neck isn't to necessarily break their vertebrae, but to pop one of the disks out)

well then I don't know what it is Snake does. but when HE snaps people's necks, their bodies go limp almost immediately.

Naturally this argument doesn't really stand anymore, because the rules say no, but if you'd like to continue arguing this particular scenario I'd be glad to.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

If he is superhumanly strong and durable then that means his musculature and skeleton are superhumanly durable which means Snake will have a hard time if any time at all. He might be able to snap the neck of a lesser opponent, but he wouldn't be able to do it on one of his superhuman foes like Raven.

You'd most likely go limp, but not definitely. There have actually been athletes who have performed without knowing their neck was broken.

[Dja Majista]

F this! Firefox just lost my whole post...
geez, I'll be back later.

[Dja Majista]

admin said:

If he is superhumanly strong and durable then that means his musculature and skeleton are superhumanly durable which means Snake will have a hard time if any time at all. He might be able to snap the neck of a lesser opponent, but he wouldn't be able to do it on one of his superhuman foes like Raven.

ok so where were we?

Alright, Duke. I'm pretty sure feats do not tell you whether a character can generally be classified as superhuman, especially when many of the feats are highly based off of gameplay mechanics. Look, the way I see it, there's one Duke represented in a number of different ways in different games. Games like Duke 3D weren't made during this time and thus weren't nearly as much concerned with realism. Hence Duke can carry so many weapons, run so fast, jump so far. It's because the game style called for a character with fairly super abilities.
I remember playing an old Jedi Knight game. The guy could swim under water with high exertion for a long time. Now granted, Jedi are pretty badass, but not that badass.

Of course I'm not gonna just stop there. In all honesty that's not a very fair analysis to just deprive Duke of all his traits just because they were required for the game mechanics. So I'll say this. Do you think that Duke's skills and abilities that made him superhuman in Duke 3D are so much part of his true character, that the makers of Duke Nukem Forever will do their best to preserve such things? I mean, if Duke was really meant to be viewed as superhuman, they're gonna have to make him with those superhuman qualities in the next game.

You'd most likely go limp, but not definitely. There have actually been athletes who have performed without knowing their neck was broken.

But if snake broke their necks, they wouldn't just not know it, they wouldn't be conscious of anything!... see cause they'd be like, dead... so they wouldn't be like, thinking... yah...
Anyway it's a video game. Whatever the science behind it, when snake does it it's 100% efficient. Why doesn't he snap raven's neck? because he never has the opportunity, and secondly, that would just be kinda lame.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

admin said:

If he is superhumanly strong and durable then that means his musculature and skeleton are superhumanly durable which means Snake will have a hard time if any time at all. He might be able to snap the neck of a lesser opponent, but he wouldn't be able to do it on one of his superhuman foes like Raven.

ok so where were we?

Alright, Duke. I'm pretty sure feats do not tell you whether a character can generally be classified as superhuman, especially when many of the feats are highly based off of gameplay mechanics. Look, the way I see it, there's one Duke represented in a number of different ways in different games. Games like Duke 3D weren't made during this time and thus weren't nearly as much concerned with realism. Hence Duke can carry so many weapons, run so fast, jump so far. It's because the game style called for a character with fairly super abilities.
I remember playing an old Jedi Knight game. The guy could swim under water with high exertion for a long time. Now granted, Jedi are pretty badass, but not that badass.

Of course I'm not gonna just stop there. In all honesty that's not a very fair analysis to just deprive Duke of all his traits just because they were required for the game mechanics. So I'll say this. Do you think that Duke's skills and abilities that made him superhuman in Duke 3D are so much part of his true character, that the makers of Duke Nukem Forever will do their best to preserve such things? I mean, if Duke was really meant to be viewed as superhuman, they're gonna have to make him with those superhuman qualities in the next game.

You'd most likely go limp, but not definitely. There have actually been athletes who have performed without knowing their neck was broken.

But if snake broke their necks, they wouldn't just not know it, they wouldn't be conscious of anything!... see cause they'd be like, dead... so they wouldn't be like, thinking... yah...
Anyway it's a video game. Whatever the science behind it, when snake does it it's 100% efficient. Why doesn't he snap raven's neck? because he never has the opportunity, and secondly, that would just be kinda lame.

Well that's just like you said his characters were dumb based on the game being so old. And the first Metal Gear was made right after Duke so it isn't that much newer. His character was still based on limitations. He still died fast, hence the need to stealth, it's not a difficult concept. I think Duke can still die (duh), but I have no idea how they'll make them. I hope they don't go the route everyone else goes and just leaves him as Duke because he's more badass that way. His character is simply on another level.

Snake wouldn't be able to break Raven's neck in a real fight, Raven is far too strong and has superhuman senses anyways. The argument just wouldn't be consistent enough in a real fight. Nobody goes in a real fight and relies on one tactic, especially when they have to grab someone that is bigger, faster, and has better reflexes. Duke has an easier time ripping off his head or arm than Snake does snapping his neck, I'm imagining that would happen faster.

[Dja Majista]

admin said:

damasta said:

ok so where were we?

Alright, Duke. I'm pretty sure feats do not tell you whether a character can generally be classified as superhuman, especially when many of the feats are highly based off of gameplay mechanics. Look, the way I see it, there's one Duke represented in a number of different ways in different games. Games like Duke 3D weren't made during this time and thus weren't nearly as much concerned with realism. Hence Duke can carry so many weapons, run so fast, jump so far. It's because the game style called for a character with fairly super abilities.
I remember playing an old Jedi Knight game. The guy could swim under water with high exertion for a long time. Now granted, Jedi are pretty badass, but not that badass.

Of course I'm not gonna just stop there. In all honesty that's not a very fair analysis to just deprive Duke of all his traits just because they were required for the game mechanics. So I'll say this. Do you think that Duke's skills and abilities that made him superhuman in Duke 3D are so much part of his true character, that the makers of Duke Nukem Forever will do their best to preserve such things? I mean, if Duke was really meant to be viewed as superhuman, they're gonna have to make him with those superhuman qualities in the next game.


But if snake broke their necks, they wouldn't just not know it, they wouldn't be conscious of anything!... see cause they'd be like, dead... so they wouldn't be like, thinking... yah...
Anyway it's a video game. Whatever the science behind it, when snake does it it's 100% efficient. Why doesn't he snap raven's neck? because he never has the opportunity, and secondly, that would just be kinda lame.

Well that's just like you said his characters were dumb based on the game being so old. And the first Metal Gear was made right after Duke so it isn't that much newer. His character was still based on limitations. He still died fast, hence the need to stealth, it's not a difficult concept. I think Duke can still die (duh), but I have no idea how they'll make them. I hope they don't go the route everyone else goes and just leaves him as Duke because he's more badass that way. His character is simply on another level.

I'm sure he's on another level, but I don't think there are any official sources that give him the "superhuman" title. Unless you know of one.

Snake wouldn't be able to break Raven's neck in a real fight, Raven is far too strong and has superhuman senses anyways. The argument just wouldn't be consistent enough in a real fight. Nobody goes in a real fight and relies on one tactic, especially when they have to grab someone that is bigger, faster, and has better reflexes. Duke has an easier time ripping off his head or arm than Snake does snapping his neck, I'm imagining that would happen faster.

Look, this is what Duke needs to beat snake: enhanced senses, an extremely durable neck, or both. He already has everything else it takes to kill snake after the moment of decision. btw, how do you know he has better reflexes?

Nobody goes in a real fight and relies on one tactic, especially when they have to grab someone that is bigger, faster, and has better reflexes.

why not? if it works, it works right? And at least I'm admitting that it's probably the only thing that would work

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

admin said:

Well that's just like you said his characters were dumb based on the game being so old. And the first Metal Gear was made right after Duke so it isn't that much newer. His character was still based on limitations. He still died fast, hence the need to stealth, it's not a difficult concept. I think Duke can still die (duh), but I have no idea how they'll make them. I hope they don't go the route everyone else goes and just leaves him as Duke because he's more badass that way. His character is simply on another level.

I'm sure he's on another level, but I don't think there are any official sources that give him the "superhuman" title. Unless you know of one.


Look, this is what Duke needs to beat snake: enhanced senses, an extremely durable neck, or both. He already has everything else it takes to kill snake after the moment of decision. btw, how do you know he has better reflexes?

Nobody goes in a real fight and relies on one tactic, especially when they have to grab someone that is bigger, faster, and has better reflexes.

why not? if it works, it works right? And at least I'm admitting that it's probably the only thing that would work

Titles mean next to nothing, especially in video games where they don't make character manuals and bios consistently, it would be different in comics. Duke's manual covers the basic grounds of what he is about, his strength and everything else is fueled by his ego. He is already stated as practically immortal that is like a title, his *feats* are what make him superhuman, he can do superhuman things. When someone can lift thousands of pounds and move to the point where they are faster than any of their enemies and the opponent has a hard time locking on them then they're superhuman. That doesn't even factor in the weapons he carries or anything like that, his kicks hurt more than his semi-automatic pistol rounds. This is like a circular dance (without the MK music). Snake simply isn't on Duke's physical level. He has better reflexes because he took out a squadron of pig cops with his desert eagle, which takes 14 rounds a cop. And didn't get shot. His character was built to do these ridiculous things because doing ridiculous physical feats is part of his character. Snake character is more real world based. But if you say science isn't a factor than there is no need to bring up his fighting tech because that is practically science.

I'm not saying it's impossible for him to break Duke's neck if he sat there, but it's highly unlikely for it to happen in a tussle. He might be better off keeping his distance.

Btw if you watched his trailer closely you'd see he had 2445 lbs on that bar, that's definitely superhuman. The freak.

[Dja Majista]

admin said:

damasta said:

I'm sure he's on another level, but I don't think there are any official sources that give him the "superhuman" title. Unless you know of one.


Look, this is what Duke needs to beat snake: enhanced senses, an extremely durable neck, or both. He already has everything else it takes to kill snake after the moment of decision. btw, how do you know he has better reflexes?


why not? if it works, it works right? And at least I'm admitting that it's probably the only thing that would work

Titles mean next to nothing, especially in video games where they don't make character manuals and bios consistently, it would be different in comics. Duke's manual covers the basic grounds of what he is about, his strength and everything else is fueled by his ego. He is already stated as practically immortal that is like a title, his *feats* are what make him superhuman, he can do superhuman things. When someone can lift thousands of pounds and move to the point where they are faster than any of their enemies and the opponent has a hard time locking on them then they're superhuman. That doesn't even factor in the weapons he carries or anything like that, his kicks hurt more than his semi-automatic pistol rounds. This is like a circular dance (without the MK music). Snake simply isn't on Duke's physical level. He has better reflexes because he took out a squadron of pig cops with his desert eagle, which takes 14 rounds a cop. And didn't get shot. His character was built to do these ridiculous things because doing ridiculous physical feats is part of his character. Snake character is more real world based. But if you say science isn't a factor than there is no need to bring up his fighting tech because that is practically science.

I'm not saying it's impossible for him to break Duke's neck if he sat there, but it's highly unlikely for it to happen in a tussle. He might be better off keeping his distance.

I dunno. I think if he had the opportunity, he'd put his all into making it quick. There wouldn't be a tussle at all if Snake had the element of surprise. Which probably wouldn't happen if Duke has better senses. As super as he is, which I understand better than you seem to think I do, you haven't given me evidence that he has better sensing abilities. Which he sort of needs. reflexes are important but they don't accomplish they same thing.

Btw if you watched his trailer closely you'd see he had 2445 lbs on that bar, that's definitely superhuman. The freak.

lol at first I thought you meant the dumbell, cause that's the only weight from the video I remembered. I was like WTF? then I saw the bench press. Could you tell me when you saw the number cause I couldn't find it.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

www.gametrailers.com/player/29074.html#comments_top

That's a bigger view, I thought the weight was much less than that. My point is overall that the "element of surprise" would be useful once or twice, and as soon as he senses him near he's going to react, and he has so much power Snake might not have the luxury of doing it. Like I said it's like human trying to use those techniques on a bear or something. Sorry if my argument sounds like it has that "drive it in your head" sound, it might look that way online. Not sure so I'm saying.

I know as far as senses go that in zero hour he blasted a sneaking wraith (undead) who was trying to kill him without looking back. Those things make next to no noise if any.

[Dja Majista]

admin said:

www.gametrailers.com/player/29074.html#comments_top

That's a bigger view, I thought the weight was much less than that. My point is overall that the "element of surprise" would be useful once or twice, and as soon as he senses him near he's going to react,

well I'm thinking more along the lines of snake kind of dropping in behind him; not so much literally sneaking up behind him. But when you say "once or twice," are you saying that there are seperate subsequent rounds that make up the statement X wins 8/10 rounds? Like as in Duke would have lost the first two rounds because of that, but in the next bunch of rounds he would know better.
I just thought that the (X wins ?/10) implies that each fight was a controlled trial with the same exact circumstances each time. Meaning no knowledge of past trials.

and he has so much power Snake might not have the luxury of doing it. Like I said it's like human trying to use those techniques on a bear or something. Sorry if my argument sounds like it has that "drive it in your head" sound, it might look that way online. Not sure so I'm saying.

eh, sorta. You're using different evidence everytime, so at least it's educational.

I know as far as senses go that in zero hour he blasted a sneaking wraith (undead) who was trying to kill him without looking back. Those things make next to no noise if any.

alright then, you win.
Duke is winner! I really don't care too much cause I actually like Duke more anyways.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

admin said:

www.gametrailers.com/player/29074.html#comments_top

That's a bigger view, I thought the weight was much less than that. My point is overall that the "element of surprise" would be useful once or twice, and as soon as he senses him near he's going to react,

well I'm thinking more along the lines of snake kind of dropping in behind him; not so much literally sneaking up behind him. But when you say "once or twice," are you saying that there are seperate subsequent rounds that make up the statement X wins 8/10 rounds? Like as in Duke would have lost the first two rounds because of that, but in the next bunch of rounds he would know better.
I just thought that the (X wins ?/10) implies that each fight was a controlled trial with the same exact circumstances each time. Meaning no knowledge of past trials.


eh, sorta. You're using different evidence everytime, so at least it's educational.

I know as far as senses go that in zero hour he blasted a sneaking wraith (undead) who was trying to kill him without looking back. Those things make next to no noise if any.

alright then, you win.
Duke is winner! I really don't care too much cause I actually like Duke more anyways.

Yea, more rounds would mean a difference is what I was saying.

You'd better like him better soldier!

[Dja Majista]

I was thinking from an experimental trial point of view. Because that would better represent a single death match. You're killing me with these stipulations man!
I don't like him "better", I like him "more".
geez man you just don't know how to accept defeat, just give up.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

damasta said:

I was thinking from an experimental trial point of view. Because that would better represent a single death match. You're killing me with these stipulations man!
I don't like him "better", I like him "more".
geez man you just don't know how to accept defeat, just give up.

Clearly.

[violent2dope]

admin said:

damasta said:

Duke is immortal? geez, that's kind of unfair.
Remember their tactics are almost opposite though. Snake will be going for the element of surprise, something he's more than capable of achieving.
While Duke is certainly tough, Snake's physicality is nothing to sneeze at either. If you played the games, you'll see he has pulled off some wild moves, and always come down to a silent landing. The things he does on a regular basis take a ton of sttrength.

He won't be able to use the element of surprise in a straight up fight when the opponent is expecting him. Duke has to sneak around in his games as well, though not as much because he's much stronger. If Snake was as powerful as Duke he'd be able to go through his opponents without using stealth as much. Duke's character is simply built on a more unrealistic level.

To be fair, Snake has a habit of beating opponents on an unrealistic level...

[jackred]

Tough Question on one hand you got a alien asskicker with enough guns to level The Governator and on the other you got a spy who can't be seen that has two brothers which are actually clones of Big Boss.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

lolz

[jackred]

Duke would blow him to hell.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Hell? He wasn't a bad guy.