The "SAW" Saga vs. Se7en

[pinstrike]

Yup. I guess I'm in a Halloweeny mood, and with the fourth installment due this Friday, I'd like to know which movie(s) you find superior in the Horror industry.

Both are fantastic, sadistic, and structured around moral concepts. So. Begin.

[EsteemedLeader©]

I think that cumulatively Se7en is better.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

esteemedleader said:

I think that cumulatively Se7en is better.

Is this the seven I'm thinking of that covered the sins, or am I way off?

[pinstrike]

Yes, you're thinking of the right movie. Brad Pit, Morgan Freeman, Kevin Spacey.

Personally, I think Saw takes the cake in the horror category. It gets much more response from the audience, which is what horror movies are about. And for the amount of sequels it's had so far, the quality hasn't gone down that much at all. The traps get more brutal, the plots more ingeniously constructed, and the bad guy wins every time.

That's everything I want in a horror saga.

[EsteemedLeader©]

As horror goes, Saw is better. But I believe Se7en was more thought-provoking and crafted more like a masterpiece than a movie.

[pinstrike]

I agree with that. It's more of a drama with a scary mask on. You just wanna look at it and squeeze its cheeks and say stop it silly you're not really scary but you are such a good boy would you like a nutty wafer and then Se7en looks up at you with those big beautiful eyes and he says in a Morgan Freeman voice, "why yes, I'd appreciate that" and you give the movie a nutty wafer because it's such a good movie but then you realize that--godamnit--that was your last fucking nutty wafer and you already finished the oreos and you're out of milk so you have to settle for apple juice while the fat kid packs your last nutty wafer into his face but he's such a gooood movie, and you just wanna hug him when he talks like morgan freeman but you're still in a sour mood so you pop in saw ( 1 or 2 or 3) and it makes you feel better. Yeah. It does.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

pinstrike said:

Yes, you're thinking of the right movie. Brad Pit, Morgan Freeman, Kevin Spacey.

Personally, I think Saw takes the cake in the horror category. It gets much more response from the audience, which is what horror movies are about. And for the amount of sequels it's had so far, the quality hasn't gone down that much at all. The traps get more brutal, the plots more ingeniously constructed, and the bad guy wins every time.

That's everything I want in a horror saga.

Ok so I'm on about the right thing, just making sure.

esteemedleader said:

As horror goes, Saw is better. But I believe Se7en was more thought-provoking and crafted more like a masterpiece than a movie.

I like more well thought out stuff. Nowadays horror (particularly shock horror) doesn't have the same affect that it used to have because we've seen so much more. Nothing like something well crafted out that makes you think.

[pinstrike]

But Saw does make you think. That's why this thread exists. Both movies are ingeniously well crafted and very well thought out. Saw isn't some bloodfuck gore fest. It's very cleverly plotted. So is Se7en. But Saw was able to revitalize the horror industry, and completely shift the focus of fear from death to the suffering that could proceed it while at the same time being very very smart and crafty.

[EsteemedLeader©]

Indeed, Saw is genious. But it's not as chiselled as Se7en with cinematography and direction, as well as being the more clever screenplay. Now, Saw is decidedly more bold in its execution, and more fulfilling in a narrower way.

[pinstrike]

I suppose you're right about that. And while some people compare Saw to Se7en, I think Saw has a far more bitter, cynical sense of humour. But se7en has a formailty to it that does give it an air of consumate professionalism which, I think, gives the movie a big boost. But I think Saw II is so far the saga's undisputed masterpiece. It's a movie so catchy and fun, most people probably don't listen to the message. But they SHOULD! because it's not just about the pleasures of sadism, and the importance of gore, it's really a personal statement about the viewer themselves.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

pinstrike said:

But Saw does make you think. That's why this thread exists. Both movies are ingeniously well crafted and very well thought out. Saw isn't some bloodfuck gore fest. It's very cleverly plotted. So is Se7en. But Saw was able to revitalize the horror industry, and completely shift the focus of fear from death to the suffering that could proceed it while at the same time being very very smart and crafty.

It does, I simply meant more or less the goal of the two films.

[pinstrike]

here's what Darren Bousman, producer of the SAW films, had to say about it's cinematic value:

We always get bashed for gore for the sake of gore It's easy to look at that on the surface and see red stuff all over the place. But if you go beneath the surface these aren't movies we make for the critics. This isn't some critic darling - a one million dollar movie we hope to win an Academy Award for a moral message. At the same time this has a bigger moral message than a lot of films that do win. I watch horror films all day long and most of them are just blood and violence. You got hot teenagers, you get 'em naked with sex and do some killing. That's not what the 'Saw' films are, I challenge people to look beneath the surface, take away the scenes of blood and there's a movie. You take away the blood of most horror movies and you've got nothing left."

Very apt, I think.

[EsteemedLeader©]

It's "The Remains of the Day"... just, it happens to be dripping with blood.

[pinstrike]

ooohhh. good. i like that...

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

esteemedleader said:

It's "The Remains of the Day"... just, it happens to be dripping with blood.

Sweet!