Raphael vs. Michaelangelo

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Who wins between the two?

[kuwabara]

mikie is the superior and has literaly dodge all of raph attacks before effortlessly

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

kuwabara said:

mikie is the superior and has literaly dodge all of raph attacks before effortlessly

haha, in ONE particular example... I've seen all the turtles media. Michaelangelo in the old cartoons was usually the farthest behind. Michaelangelo doesn't beat any turtle effortlessly, he barely beats them all because they are almost dead even, except for Leonardo who beats him. HE only got Raph mad in battle nexus, but that wasn't like a fight to the death or anything. Raph is too strong to be taken out THAT easily.

I'd give it a close rough even.

[kuwabara]

admin said:

haha, in ONE particular example... I've seen all the turtles media. .

As have I .

.

admin said:

Michaelangelo doesn't beat any turtle effortlessly, he barely beats them all because they are almost dead even, .

There not dead even each one is better in a certain area and Don is the least skilled fighter.

admin said:

except for Leonardo who beats him.

Yes how ever later on both Miky and Raph will surpass him.

admin said:

HE only got Raph mad in battle nexus, but that wasn't like a fight to the death or anything. Raph is too strong to be taken out THAT easily. .

Was not referring to that. I was talking about a training session they had. I never ment raph would be taken easily. If miky does not wanna be hit he won’t be hit how ever he can’t land hits with out receiving some. My point about talking about the training session is because miky was not fighting he was merely dodging and he was laughing at raph how ever if he had been fighting back then he would have been hit a few time, but he was simply flipping around. Miky is easily the fastest of the turtles with the greatest agility and reflex is has been stated be for in sources and shown. His weapon even a symbol of his speed.

admin said:

I'd give it a close rough even.

If miky fight serous he win 7-8/10

If miky fight like he tends to with a lot of joking and such he will lose 4/10

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

As have I .

That's good.

.

There not dead even each one is better in a certain area and Don is the least skilled fighter.

They are close enough where neither would beat the other easily, except for Leonardo, as he's beaten the Turtles cumilatively on more than one occasion, and has actually harmed shredder. Furthermore the potential argument is iffy, because it goes on what hasn't been seen. The one who doesn't try has more area for improvement and will be seen with greater potential, whilst the one who trains, (like Leo) will be more than likely actually reaching it first. I.E when his spiritual animal was the dragon and he was the first one to summon it.

Yes how ever later on both Miky and Raph will surpass him.

I doubt it, and it remains to be seen. He already beats them regularly so why would he fall behind if he trains the hardest? He's only older by a year or so.

Was not referring to that. I was talking about a training session they had. I never ment raph would be taken easily. If miky does not wanna be hit he won’t be hit how ever he can’t land hits with out receiving some. My point about talking about the training session is because miky was not fighting he was merely dodging and he was laughing at raph how ever if he had been fighting back then he would have been hit a few time, but he was simply flipping around. Miky is easily the fastest of the turtles with the greatest agility and reflex is has been stated be for in sources and shown. His weapon even a symbol of his speed.

He can dodge for awhile, but he isn't perfect. He's been hit several times as have all the Turtles, Raph simply gets frustrated. In the first classic turtles episode Michaelangelo got frustrated when Sparring with Leonardo and lost badly although leo was only holding a stick... some sources have him as fastest and some don't, it depends on the area.

I will however agree he usually uses his agility the best.

If miky fight serous he win 7-8/10

That's a bit far. If they are both fighting seriously Raph might win because he actually wants to hurt his opponent.

Mikey isn't that good where he beats the Turtles because "he tries" he tries with them on many occasions and ends up in similar trouble. Potential alone isn't a solid argument premise.

If miky fight like he tends to with a lot of joking and such he will lose 4/10

Perhaps.

I say it goes with a 5.5 out of ten for either.

[kuwabara]

It not just mikes potential he can moves at a much faster rate with out trying which is shown quite regularly that his naterual gifts are amazing. If only he trianed like leo he would be easily the greatest how ever he does not. I also recall once leo talkign to splinter about how does mike goof off so much and still learn all the mvoes so easily and splinter said that his younger brother naterual gifts were amazing how ever he lacks the discapline some times and needs motivation from which splinter told leo to help motivate miky.

He also has demenstrate over and over that he is the fastest as he showed in while he fought the robot turtle the same turtle that beat ever one of his brother with ease yet mik lasted longe rin battle then all his brother combind becuase he was fast enough to keep up with the machines reflexes.

When mikie gets serous he hardly loses how ever he normaly tends not to get serous which is a fetal draw back of his character I still say he take Raph more times then not due to his speed advantage.

raphs a bad ass how ever. I also enevr recall leo ever beat miky ecpt once or twice in a sparring match I also recall him beating leo before. leo never punked all his brothers at once. He has punked both raph and don at once how ever.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

It not just mikes potential he can moves at a much faster rate with out trying which is shown quite regularly that his naterual gifts are amazing. If only he trianed like leo he would be easily the greatest how ever he does not. I also recall once leo talkign to splinter about how does mike goof off so much and still learn all the mvoes so easily and splinter said that his younger brother naterual gifts were amazing how ever he lacks the discapline some times and needs motivation from which splinter told leo to help motivate miky.

Mike is the fastest I didn't say that he wasn't. He training like Leo would make him questionably good, but he still wouldn't be good enough to lead the turtles. They are all naturals at certain things. Leonardo is more intune with himself and can tap into himself easier. As shown when he was the greatest spiritual creature. As shown in his fights with shredder several times. I've read the books, there are several media of the turtles.

He also has demenstrate over and over that he is the fastest as he showed in while he fought the robot turtle the same turtle that beat ever one of his brother with ease yet mik lasted longe rin battle then all his brother combind becuase he was fast enough to keep up with the machines reflexes.

Covered above.

When mikie gets serous he hardly loses how ever he normaly tends not to get serous which is a fetal draw back of his character I still say he take Raph more times then not due to his speed advantage.

Proven where and against who? Michaelangelo is tough but far from unbeatable, you can say the same with all of the turtles. All of them have potential. Michaelangelo *might* be the best or whatever embraced, but he wouldn't be good enough to outshine his turtles with ease, they'd be very close, it's an exaggeration.

raphs a bad ass how ever. I also enevr recall leo ever beat miky ecpt once or twice in a sparring match I also recall him beating leo before. leo never punked all his brothers at once. He has punked both raph and don at once how ever.

Leonardo has outsparred Mikey, beaten his brothers in the new cartoon and then Splinter embarrased him for being cocky, he did it in the old Cartoon as well, he has outdueled some versions of shredder. Which even if Mikey was more trained, lacks the skill and discipline to do.

Oh and Karai and beating a shitload of Soldiers and Elites before being taken down... even in the movies Leo always learned the fastest. Leonardo is described as the perfect turtle.

[kuwabara]

admin said:

It not just mikes potential he can moves at a much faster rate with out trying which is shown quite regularly that his naterual gifts are amazing. If only he trianed like leo he would be easily the greatest how ever he does not. I also recall once leo talkign to splinter about how does mike goof off so much and still learn all the mvoes so easily and splinter said that his younger brother naterual gifts were amazing how ever he lacks the discapline some times and needs motivation from which splinter told leo to help motivate miky.

Mike is the fastest I didn't say that he wasn't. He training like Leo would make him questionably good, but he still wouldn't be good enough to lead the turtles. They are all naturals at certain things. Leonardo is more intune with himself and can tap into himself easier. As shown when he was the greatest spiritual creature. As shown in his fights with shredder several times. I've read the books, there are several media of the turtles.

Covered above.

Proven where and against who? Michaelangelo is tough but far from unbeatable, you can say the same with all of the turtles. All of them have potential. Michaelangelo *might* be the best or whatever embraced, but he wouldn't be good enough to outshine his turtles with ease, they'd be very close, it's an exaggeration.

raphs a bad ass how ever. I also enevr recall leo ever beat miky ecpt once or twice in a sparring match I also recall him beating leo before. leo never punked all his brothers at once. He has punked both raph and don at once how ever.

Leonardo has outsparred Mikey, beaten his brothers in the new cartoon and then Splinter embarrased him for being cocky, he did it in the old Cartoon as well, he has outdueled some versions of shredder. Which even if Mikey was more trained, lacks the skill and discipline to do.

Oh and Karai and beating a shitload of Soldiers and Elites before being taken down... even in the movies Leo always learned the fastest. Leonardo is described as the perfect turtle.

The whole piont of miky character is to be naterualy better then the rest how ever he does not train as frequently and he is supose to have unlimited potential while leo does not have nearly the potential he how ever has the dicapline and training to out due his brother. Both raph and miky will some day or should some day surpass there brother becuase they ahve more potential.

in the new cartoon he beat raph and don miky was not there.

Leo was also the last to figure out his energy how ever leo is easily the best leader out of the turtles.

Leo may be described as the perfect one how ever miky described as the limited potential and msot naterualy gifted.

actaully in the movie I think it the second one when they are trainign out side mikie is taking on all three of his brother.


I still feel miky would win vs raph his speed would give him the edge.

I also this miky would put up the best fight vs leo but sadly he would lose.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

The whole piont of miky character is to be naterualy better then the rest how ever he does not train as frequently and he is supose to have unlimited potential while leo does not have nearly the potential he how ever has the dicapline and training to out due his brother. Both raph and miky will some day or should some day surpass there brother becuase they ahve more potential.

That was one "supposed" explanation. Raph and Leo are the same age... Leonardo has always been the natural, if they had to learn a new technique, Leonardo learned it first. In the lost episode he summoned his dragon first, and was saw as the one with the most potential. What you don't realize is Leonardo underestimates himself all the time. Even Shredder saw the potential in him in that he was the best of all his brothers. Even if Michaelangelo was the most physically natural, he still wouldn't have the same spiritual bond as Leonardo because that itself comes from control. There is nowhere where it say Leonardo doesn't have potential.

It would be different if it were Splinter and he was very old... but Leonardo is their age and has done much more.... it wouldn't make sense for him to be easily surpassed because they all train extensively. Mikey might have "more" potential in some aspects but it isn't proven and even if he was at his best, it wouldn't beat Leo at his best. Potential cannot be rated because who never try are always argued to have the most potential because it's hard to guage them. Michaelangelo is actually shown messing up the most, and yes he does goof around but he is usually taken down the easiest, and Donny. Raph and Leo do much better alone.

in the new cartoon he beat raph and don miky was not there.

Uhh yes he did beat all of them... It was right before he met shredder the first time. Leonardo beat them and they all got mad. Splinter asked him why he won, Leonardo said it was because his Katana was the best weapon. Splinter asked him to attack him and Leonardo didn't want to "hurt him", Leonardo did as he was instructed and Splinter embarrased him, of course. Leonardo got mad and went off, where Shredder met him and told him he had the most potential of the turtles. He offered Leonardo to serve him and Leonardo refused.

Leo was also the last to figure out his energy how ever leo is easily the best leader out of the turtles.

No he wasn't, he was infact the ONLY to summon the mystical dragon, the rest needed Cyber enhancements to get theirs.

Leo may be described as the perfect one how ever miky described as the limited potential and msot naterualy gifted.

"Though Leonardo's relationships with his other brothers Michelangelo and Donatello are not as volatile, both have made comments alluding to the high standards the former has set, and his tendency to make them look bad. Despite this, his brothers view him as a pillar of strength, and are at a loss when he is injured or absent. One of Leonardo's most prominent qualities is his determination to believe the best in people, even potential enemies (i.e., Karai, Traximus, Quarry)."

actaully in the movie I think it the second one when they are trainign out side mikie is taking on all three of his brother.

No, it was the first one when Splinter was kidnapped and they fought in April's old home because her apartment burned down. They all fought each other... Leonardo wasn't serious and hardly uses his weapons. He also was the only one who even hit the shredder and sliced him, the rest got beat badly.

I still feel miky would win vs raph his speed would give him the edge.

Raph has more strength, my point is it would be close.

I also this miky would put up the best fight vs leo but sadly he would lose.

Correct.

[brainchild81]

Raph seems to have a weakness that Mike was born to exploit. His anger will always get him beaten by those who can use it against him. About Leo, Mike is more of a natural. Most athletic. If he trained as hard as Leo he'd likely be better. However, Leo would still be the leader. 2nd in line for that job would be Don. I'm also wondering what makes people think Don's the worst fighter.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

brainchild81 said:

Raph seems to have a weakness that Mike was born to exploit. His anger will always get him beaten by those who can use it against him. About Leo, Mike is more of a natural. Most athletic. If he trained as hard as Leo he'd likely be better. However, Leo would still be the leader. 2nd in line for that job would be Don. I'm also wondering what makes people think Don's the worst fighter.

I guess he's most athletic, but that doesn't mean he will apply his knowledge like Leo, Leo isn't leader simply by being best fighter, it's the knowledge he applies to what he does. Don is a good thinker, but Raph has the heart and his personality would probably make him give orders, Don doesn't have the dominant personality, neither does Mike.

Don isn't a bad fighter at all. The gap between the three is very slight, only a noticeable one being Leo, it's just that he spends the least time practicing. But his ranged weapon gives him an advantage.

[brainchild81]

admin said:

I guess he's most athletic, but that doesn't mean he will apply his knowledge like Leo, Leo isn't leader simply by being best fighter, it's the knowledge he applies to what he does. Don is a good thinker, but Raph has the heart and his personality would probably make him give orders, Don doesn't have the dominant personality, neither does Mike.

Did you see the "same as it never was" ep.? Don steps up when the situation requres it. Raph would have no problem giving orders, but he can't keep his cool. In a stressful situation, he'd give bad orders & fvck up. I agree w/you about Leo's leadership. I think you misread that part. You said

admin said:

Mike is the fastest I didn't say that he wasn't. He training like Leo would make him questionably good, but he still wouldn't be good enough to lead the turtles.

I'm saying that even if Mike's MA skill surpassed Leo's, he still wouldn't lead the turtles cuz' he ain't a leader of the quality Leo is.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Oh, what I meant was that part of the skill that Leo has (or most of it) is not from his athletic ability but from his mental application, we both agree Mikey is more natural physically, but I was saying that doesn't mean he would apply them better.

Don would be a great leader given the right situation, I just meant that Raph is more sure of himself.

[brainchild81]

But Leo's a great leader & he always seems very unsure of himself

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Yea that is true, I guess in some ways it's the reluctance to lead that makes a great leader. His unsureness is usually towards taking care of his brothers the best way possible. Don has the mind for it, maybe he just needs more presence. Dunno.

Were you an old school turtle fan?

[brainchild81]

Yep. Don was always my fave w/Leo being my 2nd fave.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Good, I'd defend my man too. I like all of them, but Leo's my fave and probably Raph because they are dynamic characters. You go by weapon length don't you?

Anyways have you heard of the Battletoads?

[brainchild81]

Remember they had some games a while back. Never got a chance to play them a lot

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

brainchild81 said:

Remember they had some games a while back. Never got a chance to play them a lot

It rocks you should download the arcade version onto mame. Hard but good fun.

[brainchild81]

How much space does mame take up? & I always liked busting people upside the head w/a stick(that scene where he whacked future Leo & Raph upside the head was an instant classic). & Don was a monster in tournament fighters

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

brainchild81 said:

How much space does mame take up? & I always liked busting people upside the head w/a stick(that scene where he whacked future Leo & Raph upside the head was an instant classic). & Don was a monster in tournament fighters

Let me see, I can check.

Mikey was the most broken in tournament fighters.

[Psyquis52]

I think Mikey has more potential and agility but Raph is just mean.
I give Raph a win ratio of 6/10

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

In a typical match or a serious one?

[Psyquis52]

Typical. Mike just needs to get serious.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 6, 2008 22:05:25 GMT -5 Psyquis52 said:

Typical. Mike just needs to get serious.

It wouldn't be Mikey then though.

[Psyquis52]

I'm not sure what you mean.

I gave the majority to Raph.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Mike getting serious isn't Mike's personality really, that's what I mean.

[Psyquis52]

Ah! I understand now.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I knew you would.