Darkstorm Zero
Master of the Fist 
I am power made flesh. Feel how weak you truly are !
Posts: 829
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Post by Darkstorm Zero on Apr 18, 2009 5:19:20 GMT -5
Even though it HAS been proven for over 10 years? AND he was completely unharmed by anyone elses attacks?
Sorry dude, but that IS reaching pretty deep.
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Post by warmunger on Apr 19, 2009 11:58:55 GMT -5
Oh crap, not here 2. At least it wood B on topic.
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Post by JACK-2 on Apr 20, 2009 12:52:43 GMT -5
No one has ever proven it's a plot device. I think it's just somthin' peeps made up and I think Orochi just got his ass kicked. I can't argue with that kind of reasoning, because truth be told I don't even know how it works myself. I still give it to Orochi because he's written at a higher power than Gouki. And when Akuma 1st appeared, I woulda said he lost pretty much er match against non SF characters wit well established backgrounds and displays of power and ability. Orochi is vague AND featless and until his creators take the time to develop the character, he loses. But that's just me. It's not fair that Akuma appears in most SF games and does all this outrageous shit while Orochi appears in 1 game wit no displays of power, but he beats Akuma simply cuz he's the best in his own game. Debates shouldn't work that way. And they actualy don't. Man I can't agree with that line of thinking anymore. It really shouldn't matter that much if character has been developed longer or has much more in the way of feats. Because if that's the case then older or more reputable characters will always win out. Due to the fact that they have a more expansive career. We should IMO take the level the character is written on into consideration when it comes to gauging them. Feats war are just a cop out to critical thinking IMO. We gotta factor story elements, the way the character is being written in certain peroids and the authors intent overall. Because the characters limits are not really exsistent rather they are established by the plots needs. |
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Post by Saikyo Kid on Apr 21, 2009 1:19:39 GMT -5
No one has ever proven it's a plot device. I think it's just somthin' peeps made up and I think Orochi just got his ass kicked. I can't argue with that kind of reasoning, because truth be told I don't even know how it works myself. I still give it to Orochi because he's written at a higher power than Gouki. And when Akuma 1st appeared, I woulda said he lost pretty much er match against non SF characters wit well established backgrounds and displays of power and ability. Orochi is vague AND featless and until his creators take the time to develop the character, he loses. But that's just me. It's not fair that Akuma appears in most SF games and does all this outrageous shit while Orochi appears in 1 game wit no displays of power, but he beats Akuma simply cuz he's the best in his own game. Debates shouldn't work that way. And they actualy don't. Man I can't agree with that line of thinking anymore. It really shouldn't matter that much if character has been developed longer or has much more in the way of feats. Because if that's the case then older or more reputable characters will always win out. Due to the fact that they have a more expansive career. We should IMO take the level the character is written on into consideration when it comes to gauging them. Feats war are just a cop out to critical thinking IMO. We gotta factor story elements, the way the character is being written in certain peroids and the authors intent overall. Because the characters limits are not really exsistent rather they are established by the plots needs. You act is if these are DC characters. They're SF characters. They pretty much had the same group of writers and illustrators for 20+ years. They've been pretty consistent, to me. The level the character is written is important when they are fightin' guys from the same universe. Orochi is said to be powerful. Barely loosin' to Kyo and Iori is powerful. There is no proof that he's better than what was shown. And that's how I see it. Just bein' written as powerful doesn't grant you %100 victory over those who are not written as powerful in their completely different and separate universes. Orochi has had 8 games to appear in, he appeared in none but 1 and did nothin but lose to characters who did nothin' but lead the story. That's SNK's fault. One question, why do you people think Orochi is stronger than Kyo and Iori, what did he do, to make y'all think this? I'm a proof kinda guy. Your not as good as they say you are until I see it. At least give'im a "What if ending". "Power" is shit until it's demonstrated. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Apr 21, 2009 4:21:56 GMT -5
Having the same group or different group of writers doesn't mean a character will stay consistent. Either they are consistent or they are not, the only thing different writers will change is the frequency of this happening.
Yo I never said all that, all I'm sayin is that how a character is written determines everything. Doesn't matter how much feats they have or how much experience they have. In a story, if it's your time to lose, win or overcome a obstcale way out of your league you will do it. In reality characters aren't strong or weak. They are whatever the story needs them to be which is my point. We should debate the story points as our focus, it makes good sense to do so. Orochi is a mysterious character, he most likely won't have explicit feats like Gouki does now.
We gotta stop treating them like beings and more like characters.
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Post by warmunger on Apr 21, 2009 14:53:47 GMT -5
That's kind of what I was saying a little while ago, but Orochi is a completely different case. This is a game VS forum. Not a court of law. U don't have to B so anal, everything has 2 B B-yond the shadow of doubt with U.
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Post by Saikyo Kid on Apr 22, 2009 21:43:45 GMT -5
It's like this for me...You ask me who is stronger, the strongest guy in the neighborhood or a man who can bust battle ships? I'm gonna say the guy who busts battle ships. It's that simple for me.
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Darkstorm Zero
Master of the Fist
I am power made flesh. Feel how weak you truly are !
Posts: 829
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Post by Darkstorm Zero on Apr 23, 2009 5:40:11 GMT -5
This is why I said what I said about this back at KMC, The characters arn't bound absolutely by feat restrictions, it can be treated the same way as gameplay restrictions, While they make good solid arguments most of the time, it MUST be handled with discretion. Things like storyline and character development must take front-row-center-stage, and to a lesser extent, lore as well. Writer intent too. This way, we can rationalise massive power differences bitween characters like Gen, who has no real feats to speak of, being comparable to a guy like Akuma, who has barges full of awsome feats. The only problems are #1: Sorting the bull$h!t from the truth... KOF & SF have been incredibly vague and unclear reguarding storyline development over the years, not many people know what happened storyline wise, which events did happen and which didn't.
(To be continued)
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Darkstorm Zero
Master of the Fist
I am power made flesh. Feel how weak you truly are !
Posts: 829
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Post by Darkstorm Zero on Apr 23, 2009 5:49:31 GMT -5
And #2: Feats can be more accurate at times, they do make good examples of a characters individual powers, but many mistake a feat for representation of a characters power as a whole powerset. This can be misleading, and it must work in accordance with the characters story, how they are written, and more importantly, is such a feat within their powerset?
A prime example would be Akuma, who has crushed islands, split Uluru, and destroyed ships, all with physical attacks. Where any of these feats within Akuma's powerset before he did them onscreen? Probably not... thats why Capcom retcons a lot. BUT, the character story was written for him to do this, Orochi's written powerset has him written as immortal and has access to very awsome powers.
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Post by JACK-2 on Apr 30, 2009 21:13:13 GMT -5
It's like this for me...You ask me who is stronger, the strongest guy in the neighborhood or a man who can bust battle ships? I'm gonna say the guy who busts battle ships. It's that simple for me. That kind of reasoning doesn't work in fiction. Characters will do whatever feats the story requires of them. It has nothing to do with whether they are strong or not and everything to do with how they are written. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on May 3, 2009 5:01:42 GMT -5
It's like this for me...You ask me who is stronger, the strongest guy in the neighborhood or a man who can bust battle ships? I'm gonna say the guy who busts battle ships. It's that simple for me. That kind of reasoning doesn't work in fiction. Characters will do whatever feats the story requires of them. It has nothing to do with whether they are strong or not and everything to do with how they are written. Well the plot is a strong point in any story, a thing I make clear when people try to use crossovers all of the time. |
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Post by JACK-2 on May 3, 2009 12:42:58 GMT -5
It's also a point that people who love to resort to feat wars should take into consideration. I feel things would go much smoother if there was a more laid back approach to something so simple I.E. Fictional character battles.
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Post by Saikyo Kid on May 11, 2009 18:07:56 GMT -5
It's like this for me...You ask me who is stronger, the strongest guy in the neighborhood or a man who can bust battle ships? I'm gonna say the guy who busts battle ships. It's that simple for me. That kind of reasoning doesn't work in fiction. Characters will do whatever feats the story requires of them. It has nothing to do with whether they are strong or not and everything to do with how they are written. The story did not require Akuma to blow up a battle ship, split one of the worlds largest land masses or blow up an island. These are things capcom made Akuma do to display his power. These things were done on purpose to make the viewers say "Damn, how will Ryu deal wit that? The Dark Hadou is a motha phucka!" I'm not gonna start discountin' facts in favor of assumption and popular belief. No one has shown any proof that orochi is more powerful. All y'all doin' is just talkin'. You gotta prove what you say, that's what debatin' is all about. Character development and all that other good stuff counts, but in this case it's not enough. How is Orochi faster? He is not. How is he stronger? He is not. How is his endurance greater? It is not. How is he smarter? Guess they're even in that respect. How well does his powers work? Not very well. Dodgin' these questions isn't how debates should be done. Until these questions can be answered wit absolute truth and proof. The shit bein' said to me is meaningless... and it would be to most others too. Maybe if I stopped callin proof of Akuma's ability to beat others beneath'im feats, things wouldn't be this twisted. I say Akuma wins, you say, no. I say prove it. No one has done that. Until Orochi is shown to able shrug off island destroyin' and better attacks. He fails. How is he a different case? Answer the questions that lie before you in this debate. You don't have to be "anal" but you gotta prove the shit you say. How the hell is Orochi gonna beat Akuma when he cant' even beat Kyo and Iori? And don't try to feed me that "fire Cryptonite" bull shit unless you can prove it. I hope you remember that this is not just a debate, this is who will win in a fight? What truly counts is what you can do in a fight. What can you do in a fight to win? YOU MUST ANSWER THIS QUESTION. What will win in a fight, gazelle or a lion? A lion o'course. Why? A lion is bigger, stronger, and much more durable. Lions kill gazelles all the time. Are you tryin' to say that you shouldn't use the events and actions that happened in character's life as a basis for his power cuz it happened in the story? I guess Freeza bein' able to destroy planets wouldn't be enough of a reason on why he could obliterate Dan. For me, a real debate comes down to the question "Why"? Why are you right? This leads to "facts", facts lead to truth and this leads to the question bein' answered. |
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Post by JACK-2 on May 13, 2009 20:28:04 GMT -5
The story did not require Akuma to blow up a battle ship, split one of the worlds largest land masses or blow up an island. These are things capcom made Akuma do to display his power. These things were done on purpose to make the viewers say "Damn, how will Ryu deal wit that? The Dark Hadou is a motha phucka! Of course they are not required to, they however choose to in order to display specific traits of the character and his progress so far into the official time-line. I don't see what your point is was. No one has shown any proof that orochi is more powerful. All y'all doin' is just talkin'. You gotta prove what you say, that's what debatin' is all about. Character development and all that other good stuff counts, but in this case it's not enough. I no longer believe he is more powerful, I do believe he is written on a higher level based on the statements regarding his powers. I don't believe in comparing these characters the way that's done on other forums or how I used too. There are so many different interpretations of the characters and were talking about characters from two different universes. How is Orochi faster? He is not. How is he stronger? He is not. How is his endurance greater? It is not. How is he smarter? Guess they're even in that respect. How well does his powers work? Not very well. -Inconclusive -Depends on how you compare them. -Inconclusive -How are they even? -How do you know this? Your argument is based on conjecture and some musings about how Gouki can destroy moutains therefore he wins. My argument is that there are more delicate details that should be discussed and that ultimately there is no absolute winner. Depending on who is writing them, characters can beat anyone or lose to anyone. Dodgin' these questions isn't how debates should be done. I'm not really interested in these heated debates anymore, because nothing ever gets done. Just a bunch of people yelling and not listening to each other in short a cluster-fuck. I say Akuma wins, you say, no. I say prove it. No one has done that.. Can't prove it because it ain't a fact dawg, Never happened in any continiuity I know of and they are from two different universes. I believe he is more powerful, but there are different interpretations of the characters. Are you tryin' to say that you shouldn't use the events and actions that happened in character's life as a basis for his power cuz it happened in the story? No, I'm saying that you cannot interpret things from a story, compare them too a complete different ficitional universe with the kind of logic you using. You seem to be treating them like they are real entities, nah man. They are CHARACTERS and are written a certain way. You can't always compare two writing styles between two stories like that, let alone make sense of the inane shit in fiction to compare to each other. Stuff like Superman pushing planets with his Super-Breath from space, pushing planets, surviving nukes one day then turn around and get hurt by punches the next. Fiction is filled with Non-sequiturs/Absurdism. Things will not always make sense and yet you have people who think they can compare two distinct subjective fictional universes to each other by comparing it to the real world with absolute certainty. I guess Freeza bein' able to destroy planets wouldn't be enough of a reason on why he could obliterate Dan. For me, a real debate comes down to the question "Why"? Why are you right? This leads to "facts", facts lead to truth and this leads to the question bein' answered. Not everyone gets it, though. Just because it is true doesn't mean people will accept it. |
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Post by Dja Majista on May 14, 2009 0:26:08 GMT -5
"fiction vs." debates aren't about being right, they're about pwning. At least that's what I think. And that's probably why I don't spend much time debating on them. Because the truth is, if you get down and dirty and really be technical, this is exactly what it boils down to...
But it's still fun. I mean, the way I see it, if you're going to debate about fictional matchups, you just have to accept the fact that there will always be problems with debating methods. None are particularly conclusive due to the fact that the writers can do almost whatever they want with the characters. And in contrast, an argument which tries to accommodate that fact is going to have as much if not more conjecture, because now we're talking about predicting what the writer is going to do.
If you wanted though you could just match them up in several different ways, which take only specific forms of supporting arguments. Like maybe a strict feat battle, a stats battle, a battle that takes into account character personalities (some are against killing), and maybe a battle that just looks at the rock-paper-scissors nature of a matchup (think lvl 50 charizard vs lvl 55 venusaur, or something to that effect) a battle that goes beyond stats and even feats. And then you look at the results and see which battles take priority in determining a winner.
But the whole orochi thing. It sounds like he's just a ridiculously vague character. It wouldn't be fair say he loses because he lacks feats. But at the same time, it wouldn't be fair to say that he wins because the writers "hinted" at extremely high stats.
But I don't know. That's just my two cents.
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Post by JACK-2 on May 14, 2009 3:16:24 GMT -5
"fiction vs." debates aren't about being right, they're about pwning. At least that's what I think. And that's probably why I don't spend much time debating on them. That's pretty much why I stopped getting involved with these kind of debates. Unless it's a small discussion with friends like I do over here. I really don't see these issues as debate worthy and I got tired of the over zealous flame wars over these type of things. Gimmie a cool laid back discussion anyday of the week over the heated flame fest over something so inconclusive. It can be under certain conditions, but for me stupid constant flame wars over these things is tiresome. It wouldn't be fair say he loses because he lacks feats. But at the same time, it wouldn't be fair to say that he wins because the writers "hinted" at extremely high stats. I can no longer say who wins or loses because it depends on who is writing the fight. They both can potentially lose if the writer wishes too. I personally believe Orochi is generally written at a higher level, and thats all I can say really. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on May 15, 2009 20:21:05 GMT -5
"fiction vs." debates aren't about being right, they're about pwning. At least that's what I think. And that's probably why I don't spend much time debating on them. That's pretty much why I stopped getting involved with these kind of debates. Unless it's a small discussion with friends like I do over here. I really don't see these issues as debate worthy and I got tired of the over zealous flame wars over these type of things. Gimmie a cool laid back discussion anyday of the week over the heated flame fest over something so inconclusive. It can be under certain conditions, but for me stupid constant flame wars over these things is tiresome. It wouldn't be fair say he loses because he lacks feats. But at the same time, it wouldn't be fair to say that he wins because the writers "hinted" at extremely high stats. I can no longer say who wins or loses because it depends on who is writing the fight. They both can potentially lose if the writer wishes too. I personally believe Orochi is generally written at a higher level, and thats all I can say really. Man any debate with dumb people is going to be about "pwning" I don't care if it is about video game characters, movies (I just had a guy on youtube I went at it with because he jumped on my post, but he's cool now), lawn equipment, or cards. If you are around the wrong people, you will have that environment, but it helps to know what you're talking about as well, because people can see right through someone who doesn't. I just leaned toward Orochi because of the fact he has that crazy plot device working for him. |
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Post by Saikyo Kid on May 17, 2009 16:28:30 GMT -5
I quit...no one is listenin' and instead opt out to use some sort of deeper esoteric logic on fictional characters.
Akuma owns until Orochi gains the credentials to be put on Akuma's level. That's just me being' real.Finally someone gets it. I could undertsand what you mean wit the whole Akuma winnin' thing but you gotta admit that orochi winnin' cuz the writers say he's powerful (to an unknown degree) is the worst of the 2 choices.
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Post by Dja Majista on May 18, 2009 1:25:38 GMT -5
yeah alan, I agree that it's probably unfair to say that orochi would win based on a vague description of his powers. But I'm also saying that orochi's powers shouldn't be discounted due to a lack of showings. Honestly I know almost nothing about Orochi though. If someone could post his power description or whatever, that would be cool.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on May 18, 2009 10:41:42 GMT -5
I was basing the win off of the fact that he "Can only be defeated by the 2 clans", like a said a big plot device.
But if that is the case, then the best we can say is that it inconclusive and not award the win anyways.
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Post by Saikyo Kid on May 18, 2009 17:10:42 GMT -5
yeah alan, I agree that it's probably unfair to say that orochi would win based on a vague description of his powers. But I'm also saying that orochi's powers shouldn't be discounted due to a lack of showings. Honestly I know almost nothing about Orochi though. If someone could post his power description or whatever, that would be cool. Yeah, I know, but the reason for Orochi winnin' is far more unfair than the other. I was basing the win off of the fact that he "Can only be defeated by the 2 clans", like a said a big plot device. I don't even think that's true anymore. |
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Post by JACK-2 on May 20, 2009 16:42:06 GMT -5
I quit...no one is listenin' and instead opt out to use some sort of deeper esoteric logic on fictional characters. Versus using hardcore logic on fictional characters as if we were in a court of law?  Akuma owns until Orochi gains the credentials to be put on Akuma's level. That's just me being' real. He does have credentials, just not the ones that you want. Like I said before for me this isn't about who wins in a fight. Because you won't get a definite answer. However, I still believe that orochi is written on a higher level imo. orochi winnin' cuz the writers say he's powerful(to an unknown degree) is the worst of the 2 choices. The Bolded is a strawman and it's not to an unknown degree unless your referring to it's upper limits. I already covered this on the previous page. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on May 22, 2009 10:12:34 GMT -5
I love this post I read on featwars:
"No look, I can prove it:
Superman vs. Galactus. Who wins? Galactus is the sensible answer, right? Now lets go by feats and see where that line of reasoning takes us:
Superman has traveled 25 lightyears in the time it takes to say about four sentences. That means he's millions of times faster than light. Superman has vibrated intangible in combat against Doomsday, and has also vibrated to match specific universal frequencies to stop dimensions from collapsing. That means he can't be hit. Superman's lifted a book with infinite mass with help from Captain Marvel. But half of infinity is still infinity. Plus, Ultraman who is roughly equal to Superman and whom Superman has beaten in the space lifted it by himself. That means Superman has infinite strength. Superman is durable enough to fly through black holes and double-black holes like they're made of bubble gum. That means he's more durable than...um, stars?
"But Eny what about Supes' weaknesses lulz!?" Okay. Superman has been struck with a blast of red solar radiation right in the chest by a nebula-sized monster (Sun Eater) and was still powerful enough to toss an entropy bomb at it and escape the explosion at FTL speeds. "Ur forgetting about K-nite, Eny!?" Okay. Superman's had his blood transmuted into Kryptonite by Cosmic King. Superman fought through it and one-shot him.
Superman's also resisted top tier matter manipulation, reality manipulation, and psychic manipulation - sometimes at the universal-scale level.
Let's review, shall we: Superman is millions of times FTL with infinite strength and his weaknesses don't mean a damn thing. He can't lose to Galactus.
But he does. erm Damn. Feats suck."
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Post by JACK-2 on Jun 12, 2009 18:20:37 GMT -5
I was basing the win off of the fact that he "Can only be defeated by the 2 clans", like a said a big plot device.
Well, if thats true then it doesn't seem plausible to hold him to comparisons outside of his own universe. Makes more sense to use another interpretation of the character like say Mizuchi. |
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Post by Saikyo Kid on Jun 12, 2009 20:14:59 GMT -5
I would rather give the victory to the guy who is proven strong rather than the guy who is said to be REALLY strong. This is 2 different universes. Goin' by the law of 1 rather than usin' somthin' as universaly powerful, like bustin' an island wit a punch just seems wrong to me.
He lacks the credentials to beat anyone outside his own universe. Cuz you are said to be vaugely powerful in your own storyline means squat when you step outside it.
It is an unknown degree. What has he done that makes him powerful? Tell me.
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Post by Saikyo Kid on Jun 12, 2009 20:28:34 GMT -5
I love this post I read on featwars: "No look, I can prove it: Superman vs. Galactus. Who wins? Galactus is the sensible answer, right? Now lets go by feats and see where that line of reasoning takes us: Superman has traveled 25 lightyears in the time it takes to say about four sentences. That means he's millions of times faster than light. Superman has vibrated intangible in combat against Doomsday, and has also vibrated to match specific universal frequencies to stop dimensions from collapsing. That means he can't be hit. Superman's lifted a book with infinite mass with help from Captain Marvel. But half of infinity is still infinity. Plus, Ultraman who is roughly equal to Superman and whom Superman has beaten in the space lifted it by himself. That means Superman has infinite strength. Superman is durable enough to fly through black holes and double-black holes like they're made of bubble gum. That means he's more durable than...um, stars? "But Eny what about Supes' weaknesses lulz!?" Okay. Superman has been struck with a blast of red solar radiation right in the chest by a nebula-sized monster (Sun Eater) and was still powerful enough to toss an entropy bomb at it and escape the explosion at FTL speeds. "Ur forgetting about K-nite, Eny!?" Okay. Superman's had his blood transmuted into Kryptonite by Cosmic King. Superman fought through it and one-shot him. Superman's also resisted top tier matter manipulation, reality manipulation, and psychic manipulation - sometimes at the universal-scale level. This beats the hell outta Superman on nearly all levels. Orochi is in no way this etablished. Let's review, shall we: Superman is millions of times FTL with infinite strength and his weaknesses don't mean a damn thing. He can't lose to Galactus. But he does. erm Damn. Feats suck." You know why this is not the same as Orochi VS Akuma? Cuz WE KNOW HOW POWERFUL GALACTUS IS. His power is in no way vauge. He has appeared more than twice and never got soloed by Spiderman and Wolverine, Marvel's 2 stars wit no excuses. Galactus is the product of the union between the "Sentience of the [previous] Universe" and Galan. He has been described as "the physical, metamorphosed embodiment of a cosmos" and "the most awesome living entity in the cosmos."Galactus wields the Power Cosmic and can employ it to produce nearly any effect he desires, including the molecular restructuring and transmutation of matter, the teleportation of objects — in one instance a galaxy — across space or time, size-alteration, the projection of energy with indeterminable destructive force, the erection of nearly impenetrable force fields, the creation of interdimensional and intra-dimensional portals, telepathy, telekinesis, and a form of cosmic awareness. Galactus has even shown the abilities to create sentient life,simultaneously reconstitute himself and others from complete physical disruption, resurrect his herald Morg, manipulate mortal souls as well as memories and emotions, and restore dead planets along with their population. Due to his vast power and intrinsic, natural role in the universal order, Galactus considers himself a higher being than all non-abstracts. Galactus maintains his existence by devouring planets that have the potential for supporting life. In so doing, he has consumed countless worlds, resulting in the elimination of entire extra-terrestrial civilizations. As a living force of nature, Galactus' true form cannot be perceived by most beings, and so each species perceives Galactus in a form they can comprehend, usually in a form similar to that of their own species. However, he has consciously appeared as a humanoid star at certain occasions. Galactus also requires his armor to help regulate internal energies. As Galactus must continuously feed to sustain himself, his power levels are inconsistent throughout any given period. For this reason, Earth's heroes have been able to achieve various degrees of success in repelling, or defeating, a starving, weakened Galactus. A starving, weakened Galactus has shown susceptibility to the Images of Ikonn spell, which forces him to recall all of the beings he has destroyed as a result of his feeding. As the oldest known living entity in the universe, Galactus employs science that the most brilliant minds on Earth cannot begin to grasp. Examples include the Ultimate Nullifier,[48] and Taa II. Galactus has appointed a number of beings to act as his Herald, with each bestowed with a fraction of the Power Cosmic |
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Post by Saikyo Kid on Jun 12, 2009 20:36:14 GMT -5
That beats the hell outta Superman's feats. Orochi is no where near this established AND he was beaten by Kyo and Iori who lack the evidence to be put on Hyper human levels.
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Post by JACK-2 on Jun 12, 2009 23:08:21 GMT -5
Feels like I'm on KMC again. I would rather give the victory to the guy who is proven strong rather than the guy who is said to be REALLY strong. This is 2 different universes. Goin' by the law of 1 rather than usin' somthin' as universaly powerful, like bustin' an island wit a punch just seems wrong to me He lacks the credentials to beat anyone outside his own universe. Cuz you are said to be vaugely powerful in your own storyline means squat when you step outside it. It is an unknown degree. What has he done that makes him powerful? Tell me.
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Post by Coolest thing Alive on Dec 9, 2011 17:12:38 GMT -5
I would just like to go on record and say that I do not think Akuma would defeat Orochi anymore. However, I don't think Orochi can defeat Akuma, as it stands.
My evolved logic leads me to ignore Orochi in debates until more is known about the character.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
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I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Dec 9, 2011 19:55:16 GMT -5
I would just like to go on record and say that I do not think Akuma would defeat Orochi anymore. However, I don't think Orochi can defeat Akuma, as it stands. My evolved logic leads me to ignore Orochi in debates until more is known about the character. Lol. We wouldn't be able to argue a buttload of characters due to "what if" logic. |
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