Gaming: the present and future

[gurpwnder]

Am I getting old and bitter, or is the video game industry just getting worse and worse?

I remember back in the day (LOL, I'm only 21 and I'm saying this), where games were released in a 100% working state, where developers HAD to put all their time and resources into making a great game, because once it was released, that's how it was. 

Remember when games were sold based on gameplay instead of CG trailers?

Remember games would actually challenge the player?

Remember when the cast of a movie were natural inclusions in the movie-game, instead of pre-order DLC?

Remember when we were actually excited for new consoles?

I could go on, but let's discuss our opinions of the video game industry here.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 16, 2014 19:38:42 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Am I getting old and bitter, or is the video game industry just getting worse and worse?

I remember back in the day (LOL, I'm only 21 and I'm saying this), where games were released in a 100% working state, where developers HAD to put all their time and resources into making a great game, because once it was released, that's how it was. 

Remember when games were sold based on gameplay instead of CG trailers?

Remember games would actually challenge the player?

Remember when the cast of a movie were natural inclusions in the movie-game, instead of pre-order DLC?

Remember when we were actually excited for new consoles?

I could go on, but let's discuss our opinions of the video game industry here.

I remember when we played games instead of button prompt movies. Now games seem to be movies where you just do some QTE between each scene.

[gurpwnder]

Oh man. A good game should teach the player how to play, then actually TEST them to see if they learned. Challenge is a very important part of gaming to me, and I'm sad that so many established franchises are being overly casualized.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 16, 2014 19:53:35 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Oh man. A good game should teach the player how to play, then actually TEST them to see if they learned. Challenge is a very important part of gaming to me, and I'm sad that so many established franchises are being overly casualized.

Now some games just automatically give hints if you don't solve it instantly, even if you're just looking around. I'm not an infant. There's online if you get lost after all.

[gurpwnder]

Aug 16, 2014 19:56:47 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Aug 16, 2014 19:53:35 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Oh man. A good game should teach the player how to play, then actually TEST them to see if they learned. Challenge is a very important part of gaming to me, and I'm sad that so many established franchises are being overly casualized.

Now some games just automatically give hints if you don't solve it instantly, even if you're just looking around. I'm not an infant. There's online if you get lost after all.

I think there's a lot about gaming that just really stinks. I find it really sad that games like Battlefield 3 and USF4 can be released in the states they're in. It's one reason I respect Nintendo. Since they're not on board with all this DLC stuff, at least I can trust that their games are well polished, something that I shouldn't have to do.

Casualization of gaming irritates me a lot because I really enjoy being challenged. Sure, there are absolutely gamers who aren't skilled and I respect that, but don't take enjoyment AWAY from the veteran gamers.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 16, 2014 20:17:20 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Aug 16, 2014 19:56:47 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Now some games just automatically give hints if you don't solve it instantly, even if you're just looking around. I'm not an infant. There's online if you get lost after all.

I think there's a lot about gaming that just really stinks. I find it really sad that games like Battlefield 3 and USF4 can be released in the states they're in. It's one reason I respect Nintendo. Since they're not on board with all this DLC stuff, at least I can trust that their games are well polished, something that I shouldn't have to do.

Casualization of gaming irritates me a lot because I really enjoy being challenged. Sure, there are absolutely gamers who aren't skilled and I respect that, but don't take enjoyment AWAY from the veteran gamers.

That's why I spend more time on the classics. SF4 was sold in its state because people will buy it regardless, so why bother.

[gurpwnder]

Aug 16, 2014 20:19:33 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Aug 16, 2014 20:17:20 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

I think there's a lot about gaming that just really stinks. I find it really sad that games like Battlefield 3 and USF4 can be released in the states they're in. It's one reason I respect Nintendo. Since they're not on board with all this DLC stuff, at least I can trust that their games are well polished, something that I shouldn't have to do.

Casualization of gaming irritates me a lot because I really enjoy being challenged. Sure, there are absolutely gamers who aren't skilled and I respect that, but don't take enjoyment AWAY from the veteran gamers.

That's why I spend more time on the classics. SF4 was sold in its state because people will buy it regardless, so why bother.

I wish I could do the same for other fight games. The only game people know are SF4 and Mahvel 3. I ask people to play Tekken, and nobody's willing to learn. I ask people to play Soul Calibur, and I only get one interested person. It sucks.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 16, 2014 20:32:24 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Aug 16, 2014 20:19:33 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

That's why I spend more time on the classics. SF4 was sold in its state because people will buy it regardless, so why bother.

I wish I could do the same for other fight games. The only game people know are SF4 and Mahvel 3. I ask people to play Tekken, and nobody's willing to learn. I ask people to play Soul Calibur, and I only get one interested person. It sucks.

"If it's not Capcom it doesn't matter"?

Yep. It's painful to hear people complain about Kof's netcode, when the steam version is very good, and USF4 has terrible netcode. The fanboyism is abaurd. Worse is the people who play the game and hate it, but stay around because "randoms are always on". Randoms suck and if they put effort in the other games you would have larger communities. They'd rather sit there and complain about it. It's like the people who stay at crappy forums even though they know it sucks. People have to learn not to follow the crowd.

[JACK-2]

The first DLC I used was hurricane pack 1 and 2 from ninja gaiden on Xbox. It was free and included a new challenge mode. I wish more DLC was like that instead of devolving into garbage about costumes and on disc.

Anyone remember unlockable content that was already in the game and all you had to do was beat the game to get it?

[gurpwnder]

I don't really see where video games can really go. The X1 and PS4 at a surface level are very similar to their predecessors. Sure, they have built-in streaming capabilities and more social media bullshit, but that's as far as I know.

It's just so sad that triple A games have millions of dollars poured into them, yet are not even complete upon release, yet many a customer will sympathise with the developers. On Eventhubs, I read about some people complaining about USF4, and one guy said that the critic should be happy with what he gets. As if Capcom gave USF4 to us for free and we should be grateful. I don't want this to devolve into more anti-SF4, I've already wrote a couple pages of ranting against it, but I find it very weird that paying consumers are siding with developers who produce broken games, instead of actually critically evaluating what they're getting with their money.

The whole nickel and diming is another aspect of DLC that I don't like. Cutting the cast of Aliens out of the next Aliens game to sell them as pre-order DLC is just scummy. We all know about the 12 SFXT on disc characters too. Whatever happened to paying 70 bucks and getting a complete experience?

The instant gratification that modern gamers want is also sad, since they don't want to be challenged anymore and veteran gamers have to suffer unengaging games.

Seriously though, there are millions of dollars being thrown into games, yet many developers manage to completely ignore gameplay. I can't seriously believe this industry. I couldn't care less about how many particles some CG cutscene has, I want to be entertained goshdangit!

Also, we've gone UP 2 generations since the PS2, yet our games are performing worse. PS2 / GC / XBox games used to try their best to reliably run at 60 FPS for a smooth gameplay experience. Here we are in the X1 / PS4 era, and CoD can't even run 1080p at 60 FPS on either console. One has 1080p at 30 FPS and the other has 720p at 60 FPS. If we can't even get games that run as well as they did nearly a decade ago, what's even the point of these new consoles?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 0:01:48 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

I don't really see where video games can really go. The X1 and PS4 at a surface level are very similar to their predecessors. Sure, they have built-in streaming capabilities and more social media bullshit, but that's as far as I know.

It's just so sad that triple A games have millions of dollars poured into them, yet are not even complete upon release, yet many a customer will sympathise with the developers. On Eventhubs, I read about some people complaining about USF4, and one guy said that the critic should be happy with what he gets. As if Capcom gave USF4 to us for free and we should be grateful. I don't want this to devolve into more anti-SF4, I've already wrote a couple pages of ranting against it, but I find it very weird that paying consumers are siding with developers who produce broken games, instead of actually critically evaluating what they're getting with their money.

The whole nickel and diming is another aspect of DLC that I don't like. Cutting the cast of Aliens out of the next Aliens game to sell them as pre-order DLC is just scummy. We all know about the 12 SFXT on disc characters too. Whatever happened to paying 70 bucks and getting a complete experience?

The instant gratification that modern gamers want is also sad, since they don't want to be challenged anymore and veteran gamers have to suffer unengaging games.

Seriously though, there are millions of dollars being thrown into games, yet many developers manage to completely ignore gameplay. I can't seriously believe this industry. I couldn't care less about how many particles some CG cutscene has, I want to be entertained goshdangit!

Also, we've gone UP 2 generations since the PS2, yet our games are performing worse. PS2 / GC / XBox games used to try their best to reliably run at 60 FPS for a smooth gameplay experience. Here we are in the X1 / PS4 era, and CoD can't even run 1080p at 60 FPS on either console. One has 1080p at 30 FPS and the other has 720p at 60 FPS. If we can't even get games that run as well as they did nearly a decade ago, what's even the point of these new consoles?

Yes, I don't like games not being complete on release, but they just want to get the game out so they can fix them later and meet their deadlines.

I'm going to go against the grain here. I have no problem with DLC. I just want a game to be quality. Games cost time and resources and the companies need to be paid for additional time and resources spent on a game. I mean for instance Borderlands is releasing new content, surely they should be paid for their efforts. As a consumer you have every right to not buy something you don't like or if they disagree with it. The SFxT DLC is silly, who cares if it was on disc or not? Next time they'll just force you to download it for cash. They know in advance what they'll release for DLC regardless of how it is done. That was just people complaining.

As an analogy I'd use a cable box or tv services. You're getting the same box (unless it's hd) but you pay more for more channels. Some companies just do sequels while other companies just release more content over time.

I do agree with stuff being dumbed down, and it's not just gaming. Movies and music does it to.

I wasn't aware that all of the old gen games ran at 60 fps on console. I thought a lot of the non-fighters ran at 30 fps. It's funny because console gamers always say "anything over 30 fps is a waste", like there is no difference. There is indeed a difference.

These newer consoles are just crappier PC's that cost more money. Don't really see anything more than that.

[JACK-2]

I don't hate DLC, but I feel alot of times the developers are stingy on content because they want you to pay extra on DLC. That's just my impression.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 1:14:00 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I don't hate DLC, but I feel alot of times the developers are stingy on content because they want you to pay extra on DLC. That's just my impression.

Some companies *cough* Capcom *cough* have probably done that at one point or another.

That's just what I hear though.

[gurpwnder]

Aug 17, 2014 1:07:06 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Aug 17, 2014 0:01:48 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Yes, I don't like games not being complete on release, but they just want to get the game out so they can fix them later and meet their deadlines.

I'm going to go against the grain here. I have no problem with DLC. I just want a game to be quality. Games cost time and resources and the companies need to be paid for additional time and resources spent on a game. I mean for instance Borderlands is releasing new content, surely they should be paid for their efforts. As a consumer you have every right to not buy something you don't like or if they disagree with it. The SFxT DLC is silly, who cares if it was on disc or not? Next time they'll just force you to download it for cash. They know in advance what they'll release for DLC regardless of how it is done. That was just people complaining.

As an analogy I'd use a cable box or tv services. You're getting the same box (unless it's hd) but you pay more for more channels. Some companies just do sequels while other companies just release more content over time.

I do agree with stuff being dumbed down, and it's not just gaming. Movies and music does it to.

I wasn't aware that all of the old gen games ran at 60 fps on console. I thought a lot of the non-fighters ran at 30 fps. It's funny because console gamers always say "anything over 30 fps is a waste", like there is no difference. There is indeed a difference.

These newer consoles are just crappier PC's that cost more money. Don't really see anything more than that.

DLC done right can absolutely add a lot to our gaming experiences. Imagine we get a complete game that we thoroughly enjoyed, and the devs continue to support it by giving us new content and spicing things up. That would be amazing. 

However, DLC allows devs to release unfinished games with the promise of fixing it later. DLC allows developers to cut out portions of the game to sell as DLC / pre-order bonuses. I see both of these happen much more frequently than the good kind of DLC.

Yeah, the Gamecube ran Metroid Prime at 60FPS, I imagine Melee ran at 60FPS, and games like Devil May Cry ran at 60FPS. Here we are in the 360 / PS3 era and the latest DMC game runs at 30. I guess people don't care as much, because so much marketing is done on Youtube, which runs (or ran, I don't know if they upped the FPS yet) at 30FPS anyways.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 12:24:09 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Aug 17, 2014 1:07:06 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Yes, I don't like games not being complete on release, but they just want to get the game out so they can fix them later and meet their deadlines.

I'm going to go against the grain here. I have no problem with DLC. I just want a game to be quality. Games cost time and resources and the companies need to be paid for additional time and resources spent on a game. I mean for instance Borderlands is releasing new content, surely they should be paid for their efforts. As a consumer you have every right to not buy something you don't like or if they disagree with it. The SFxT DLC is silly, who cares if it was on disc or not? Next time they'll just force you to download it for cash. They know in advance what they'll release for DLC regardless of how it is done. That was just people complaining.

As an analogy I'd use a cable box or tv services. You're getting the same box (unless it's hd) but you pay more for more channels. Some companies just do sequels while other companies just release more content over time.

I do agree with stuff being dumbed down, and it's not just gaming. Movies and music does it to.

I wasn't aware that all of the old gen games ran at 60 fps on console. I thought a lot of the non-fighters ran at 30 fps. It's funny because console gamers always say "anything over 30 fps is a waste", like there is no difference. There is indeed a difference.

These newer consoles are just crappier PC's that cost more money. Don't really see anything more than that.

DLC done right can absolutely add a lot to our gaming experiences. Imagine we get a complete game that we thoroughly enjoyed, and the devs continue to support it by giving us new content and spicing things up. That would be amazing. 

However, DLC allows devs to release unfinished games with the promise of fixing it later. DLC allows developers to cut out portions of the game to sell as DLC / pre-order bonuses. I see both of these happen much more frequently than the good kind of DLC.

Yeah, the Gamecube ran Metroid Prime at 60FPS, I imagine Melee ran at 60FPS, and games like Devil May Cry ran at 60FPS. Here we are in the 360 / PS3 era and the latest DMC game runs at 30. I guess people don't care as much, because so much marketing is done on Youtube, which runs (or ran, I don't know if they upped the FPS yet) at 30FPS anyways.

Well companies that release shoddy products shouldn't be purchased by consumers. People need to vote with their feet. Companies of course can choose what part of the game they want people to have access to depending on the value they want to put on it based on the resources they spent on it. I do think they should use DLC to enhance a game rather than patch up sloppy work.

I thought Youtube was going to eventually allow videos to be done at 60 fps. You have console fanboys who don't think there's a difference.

[gurpwnder]

Aug 17, 2014 12:39:32 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Aug 17, 2014 12:24:09 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Well companies that release shoddy products shouldn't be purchased by consumers. People need to vote with their feet. Companies of course can choose what part of the game they want people to have access to depending on the value they want to put on it based on the resources they spent on it. I do think they should use DLC to enhance a game rather than patch up sloppy work.

I thought Youtube was going to eventually allow videos to be done at 60 fps. You have console fanboys who don't think there's a difference.

That's the thing though, they DO sell and the devs think these shoddy practises are okay. Remember, we are a minority, most everyone else doesn't give a shit and'll often buy games if their advertisements show enough explosions and guns. Especially considering how hard these triple A publishers market their titles.

Now that I think about it, they probably have to market so hard because their games can't market themselves based on their gameplay anymore. They used to be able to do that, back when games were awesome.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 12:51:53 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Aug 17, 2014 12:39:32 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Well companies that release shoddy products shouldn't be purchased by consumers. People need to vote with their feet. Companies of course can choose what part of the game they want people to have access to depending on the value they want to put on it based on the resources they spent on it. I do think they should use DLC to enhance a game rather than patch up sloppy work.

I thought Youtube was going to eventually allow videos to be done at 60 fps. You have console fanboys who don't think there's a difference.

That's the thing though, they DO sell and the devs think these shoddy practises are okay. Remember, we are a minority, most everyone else doesn't give a shit and'll often buy games if their advertisements show enough explosions and guns. Especially considering how hard these triple A publishers market their titles.

Now that I think about it, they probably have to market so hard because their games can't market themselves based on their gameplay anymore. They used to be able to do that, back when games were awesome.

Well like we were discussing about SF4, that's the case. Crappy stuff has saturated the market. You're going to see more fluff and less substance, which is why it's important that we spread the word out about good games and stop playing bad ones. They can't keep themself sustained forever on a crappy fanbase since they are so fickle.

[gurpwnder]

Aug 17, 2014 13:02:44 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Aug 17, 2014 12:51:53 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Well like we were discussing about SF4, that's the case. Crappy stuff has saturated the market. You're going to see more fluff and less substance, which is why it's important that we spread the word out about good games and stop playing bad ones. They can't keep themself sustained forever on a crappy fanbase since they are so fickle.

You say that, but I'm looking at the gaming industry going on a downward spiral with little to no hope of recovering. If anything, it's getting worse.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 13:46:06 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Aug 17, 2014 13:02:44 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Well like we were discussing about SF4, that's the case. Crappy stuff has saturated the market. You're going to see more fluff and less substance, which is why it's important that we spread the word out about good games and stop playing bad ones. They can't keep themself sustained forever on a crappy fanbase since they are so fickle.

You say that, but I'm looking at the gaming industry going on a downward spiral with little to no hope of recovering. If anything, it's getting worse.

Where's always places for people who look for quality to go. It's a rule of life, the more numbers you have, the lower the quality. They cater to the least common denominator, but there are a few games out there that are actually good and care about quality.

Kof XIII for instance is a good game. You have Dark Souls which people like as well for instance.

[gurpwnder]

A lot of people call Dark Souls brutal and unfair, but based on what little I've seen, it looks very fair and those people are just unhappy that they can't just mash X or Square and win.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 20:10:01 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

A lot of people call Dark Souls brutal and unfair, but based on what little I've seen, it looks very fair and those people are just unhappy that they can't just mash X or Square and win.

People should play the old school games if they want to cry about difficulty.

[gurpwnder]

Well, now we have new kids being born into this era. They wouldn't understand NES or SNES games. They're growing up on Super Guides and militaristic challenge, so as time goes on, we're going to become smaller and smaller.

I also find it hilarious that with a budget of a few thousand dollars, indie developers can create much more engaging and even more polished games than the triple A industry can do with millions at their disposal.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 21:25:19 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Well, now we have new kids being born into this era. They wouldn't understand NES or SNES games. They're growing up on Super Guides and militaristic challenge, so as time goes on, we're going to become smaller and smaller.

I also find it hilarious that with a budget of a few thousand dollars, indie developers can create much more engaging and even more polished games than the triple A industry can do with millions at their disposal.

That's because Indie games are basically classic games reborn again with all of the things that made them good. The innovation and care, instead of all the flash without the substance. That's why people are going there.

[gurpwnder]

Yeah, perhaps there lies the future of gaming for us?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I play old school stuff and I pick new games that appeal to me and leave it at that. I quit gaming for years because I was upset in the direction it was going.

[gurpwnder]

Do you watch Jimquisition? He weekly goes on a rant about how the gaming industry is becoming shitty and looks at it from the consumer point of view. My words can't do it justice (though his jokes are pretty lame)

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 22:09:57 GMT -5 gurpwnder said:

Do you watch Jimquisition? He weekly goes on a rant about how the gaming industry is becoming shitty and looks at it from the consumer point of view. My words can't do it justice (though his jokes are pretty lame)

Post a video of it if you so please.

[gurpwnder]

Bam!

www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/9539-The-Poison-of-Pre-Order-Culture

[JACK-2]

One good thing about when an industry becomes creatively bankrupt. It forces you to become more selective with your taste as opposed to just picking stuff. I like that because you can find alot of good games if you dig around.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 17, 2014 22:18:58 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

One good thing about when an industry becomes creatively bankrupt. It forces you to become more selective with your taste as opposed to just picking stuff. I like that because you can find alot of good games if you dig around.

If people had standards to begin with, we wouldn't have gotten to this level of garbage lol.