Yu Yu Hakusho vs DBZ: Which is better?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Which show is better? List your reasons (plot, characters, etc).

I like both, but I'd have to say Yu Yu Hakusho comes off as better written and deeper plot wise all the way through.

Do you agree or disagree with me?

[JACK-2]

YYH is far better. Back when it was being published it ran against the later parts of DB A.K.A DBZ. I found everything to be better: Fights, Story, Character, Combat, The Powers, etc.

I even think Spirit Gun is cooler than Kamehameha even though they're essentially the same thing . But, Spirit Gun looks cooler and has restrictions that makes it more interesting.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 19, 2014 5:00:57 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

YYH is far better. Back when it was being published it ran against the later parts of DB A.K.A DBZ. I found everything to be better: Fights, Story, Character, Combat, The Powers, etc.

I even think Spirit Gun is cooler than Kamehameha even though they're essentially the same thing . But, Spirit Gun looks cooler and has restrictions that makes it more interesting.

Could you explain why you found each aspect better? I was just trying to get more detail.

I think YYH had a mixture of the good parts of DB and DBZ. The characters in DB were more unique and had nifty powers and the heroes often came up with interesting ways to defeat them, DBZ had neat animations and some intense battles.


The lore in YYH was much better to me and they often had to out think their opponents they couldn't beat with sheer force. I also like how all of the cast was useful, even Kuwabara. Kurama had the smarts, and Hiei had the speed. Kuwabara was the spirit awareness guy and could cut barriers, and Yusuke was the main character. I like how the foes made them look inside of themselves as they strengthened up to beat them.

[JACK-2]

Okay, this might be lengthy so bare with me.


The main cast:

The series had a much stronger main cast that more importantly stayed relevant for much longer than in DBZ. After a point the Z-fighters for the most part outside of Vegeta, Goku and Gohan became worthless. Piccolo and the humans for the most part could not keep up as power levels went out of control. Contrasted to YYH which has a much smaller group of fighters/Main Characters. But, more importantly the main characters were roughly around the same level power minus Kuwabara. There was no dead weight and everyone had the spotlight from time to time.


Less homogeneous powers:

After a while DBZ just became Super Saiyain transformations and Chi Blast with the occasional outlier here and there. The powers in YYH were far more diverse and unique. Everyone in YYH had a unique ability differentiated from each other: Kuramas plant based arsenal, Hiei fire manipulation, Yusuke can shoot Spirit Energy and Kuwabara had the spirit sword. Goku, Gohan, Vegetas and Gotenks and Trunks signature moves and powers were too similar.

Changing things up:

YYH could change it's story as to be more unpredictable. DBZ became more and more about over inflated powers. While after Dark tournament for a while YYH shifted to more cerebral fights where the main characters were more powerful, but the enemies were dangerous because of their special abilities and planning. DBZ never did that and mind you this was after a story arc full of power inflation: Dark Tournament.

Better Cast Characters:

The characters of YYH felt more down to earth than the cast of DBZ.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 19, 2014 5:23:27 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Okay, this might be lengthy so bare with me.


The main cast:

The series had a much stronger main cast that more importantly stayed relevant for much longer than in DBZ. After a point the Z-fighters for the most part outside of Vegeta, Goku and Gohan became worthless. Piccolo and the humans for the most part could not keep up as power levels went out of control. Contrasted to YYH which has a much smaller group of fighters/Main Characters. But, more importantly the main characters were roughly around the same level power minus Kuwabara. There was no dead weight and everyone had the spotlight from time to time.

Even worse was that Vegeta became pretty much useless and Gohan was supposed to be the strongest, just ended up in the backseat so Goku could shine *again*, by beating a character who had to be powered down for him.

Aug 19, 2014 5:23:27 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Less homogeneous powers:

After a while DBZ just became Super Saiyain transformations and Chi Blast with the occasional outlier here and there. The powers in YYH were far more diverse and unique. Everyone in YYH had a unique ability differentiated from each other: Kuramas plant based arsenal, Hiei fire manipulation, Yusuke can shoot Spirit Energy and Kuwabara had the spirit sword. Goku, Gohan, Vegetas and Gotenks and Trunks signature moves and powers were too similar.

This is why I liked DB more. More intelligent writing and unique powers, and strategy actually matters. Not just punch, blast, and power up through everything. DBZ threw it all out of the window for just long battles with punching and explosions.

Aug 19, 2014 5:23:27 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Changing things up:

YYH could change it's story as to be more unpredictable. DBZ became more and more about over inflated powers. While after Dark tournament for a while YYH shifted to more cerebral fights where the main characters were more powerful, but the enemies were dangerous because of their special abilities and planning. DBZ never did that and mind you this was after a story arc full of power inflation: Dark Tournament.

Yep, there were no mental battles to be had. In fact it got even worse when the villains could regenerate, and Buu made it worse when he could regenerate from almost anything, making the previous problems with the series even worse.

Aug 19, 2014 5:23:27 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Better Cast Characters:

The characters of YYH felt more down to earth than the cast of DBZ.

Not to mention the villains all being developed. Outside of Vegeta who became a hero, the only other "developed" character was Cell, and he only wanted to be "perfect" and nothing else.

DBZ is like the Michael Bay of anime/manga. All about explosions and punching but no depth. It also appeals to the masses.

[JACK-2]

Aug 19, 2014 5:38:12 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Even worse was that Vegeta became pretty much useless and Gohan was supposed to be the strongest, just ended up in the backseat so Goku could shine *again*, by beating a character who had to be powered down for him.

He also became a walking gag by the Cell saga. Despite being beaten by every other villain all while maintaining that he was some superior.

Aug 19, 2014 5:38:12 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

This is why I liked DB more. More intelligent writing and unique powers, and strategy actually matters. Not just punch, blast, and power up through everything. DBZ threw it all out of the window for just long battles with punching and explosions.

After a while it just became one Super Saiyain transformation after another for main fighters.

Aug 19, 2014 5:38:12 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Yep, there were no mental battles to be had. In fact it got even worse when the villains could regenerate, and Buu made it worse when he could regenerate from almost anything, making the previous problems with the series even worse.

The regen made the fights drag on more and more then they had too.

Aug 19, 2014 5:38:12 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Not to mention the villains all being developed. Outside of Vegeta who became a hero, the only other "developed" character was Cell, and he only wanted to be "perfect" and nothing else.

DBZ is like the Michael Bay of anime/manga. All about explosions and punching but no depth. It also appeals to the masses.

That's why the fanboys tend to be so annoying.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 19, 2014 16:01:12 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

He also became a walking gag by the Cell saga. Despite being beaten by every other villain all while maintaining that he was some superior.

Vegeta was an embarrassment later on, when he was once so strong. Kuwabara was the weakest of the group but he still kicked but and never gave up. He never came across as useless despite him being an idiot at times. (Dark Tournament Saga).

Aug 19, 2014 16:01:12 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

After a while it just became one Super Saiyain transformation after another for main fighters.

Making each one less special. Then the kids could do it, which made Gohan's strength less meaningful as well.

Aug 19, 2014 16:01:12 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

The regen made the fights drag on more and more then they had too.

Namekian healing had severe limitations to it that made it interesting and unique. Cell's was also somewhat limited until he came back from contrived BS. Buu's was just a joke and made it so energy blasts could only beat him and by the spirit bomb which failed on Vegeta and Frieza no less.

Aug 19, 2014 16:01:12 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

That's why the fanboys tend to be so annoying.

Because they just worship it based on "nostalgia" and the fact that it's "DBZ man"?

[JACK-2]

Aug 19, 2014 16:10:19 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Vegeta was an embarrassment later on, when he was once so strong. Kuwabara was the weakest of the group but he still kicked but and never gave up. He never came across as useless despite him being an idiot at times. (Dark Tournament Saga).

Exactly, the fighters stay relevant even the weakest for far longer than DBZ main cast of fighters. Also, Vegetas arrogance became a joke compared to Hiei who could be compared to Vegeta with his "pride". But, unlike Vegeta he could actually back it up.

Aug 19, 2014 5:38:12 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Making each one less special. Then the kids could do it, which made Gohan's strength less meaningful as well.

It's just boring that everyone had the same power.

Aug 19, 2014 5:38:12 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Namekian healing had severe limitations to it that made it interesting and unique. Cell's was also somewhat limited until he came back from contrived BS. Buu's was just a joke and made it so energy blasts could only beat him and by the spirit bomb which failed on Vegeta and Frieza no less.

It seemed Toriyama wrote himself into corner after a while. The villians became too OP after a while.

Aug 19, 2014 5:38:12 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Because they just worship it based on "nostalgia" and the fact that it's "DBZ man"?

Yeah, it's like a religion.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Hiei was a lot more sensible and was a lot more humble deep down. Kurama was also nicer on the surface but would show no mercy to those who crossed him. Vegeta was more of a jealous whiner. Hiei grew in a lot of ways although it was a shame his sister never found out about him.

I think Toriyama was pushed into a corner since the companies wanted more material since it was profitable. What made Yu Yu so great was that it was much shorter than most shounen. DB, DBZ, and GT carried on for far too long even with the filler. Yu Yu had really no filler and was great from beginning to end.

[JACK-2]

YYH was very short, but was very action packed compared to Hunter X Hunter which is much longer, but has far less action overall.

Togashi seems to understand how to keep the audience interested. Most fighting shounen don't take pace into account and lay on the same action over and over until you become desensitized and bored.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

How long is Hunter X Hunter now? I didn't know it had gone on that long.

[JACK-2]

Aug 19, 2014 17:14:22 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

How long is Hunter X Hunter now? I didn't know it had gone on that long.

Last Chapter was 349. But, it takes regular breaks. It's long, but it doesn't draw out imo. There's alot less fighting than in YYH and more focus on dialogue or characters.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Wow, I didn't know it was that long. It does seem a lot more cerebral. I could see why hardcore DBZ fans may find it too "long winded" for them.

[JACK-2]

Aug 19, 2014 17:26:47 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Wow, I didn't know it was that long. It does seem a lot more cerebral. I could see why hardcore DBZ fans may find it too "long winded" for them.

Apparently, it has too much talking lol.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Is it more like Yu Gi Oh or something of the sort?

[JACK-2]

Aug 19, 2014 17:31:10 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Is it more like Yu Gi Oh or something of the sort?

It's just very wordy. There was a card game in HXH and it had alot of ruls and what not. So, not surprised.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Wordy about abilities or what are they elaborating on?

[JACK-2]

Aug 19, 2014 17:44:19 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Wordy about abilities or what are they elaborating on?

Both tbqh.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

What is the talk to action ratio?

[JACK-2]

Depends on the arc but the talk to fighting is usually 3:1.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Yea, that would turn off more fans of DBZ, it could work for a detective show fan or something like Yu Gi Oh.

[JACK-2]

Aug 19, 2014 18:05:14 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Yea, that would turn off more fans of DBZ, it could work for a detective show fan or something like Yu Gi Oh.

I like it because it works well for the series and another things is unlike other series. The villains aren't always beaten by the end of the arc.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 19, 2014 18:07:06 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Aug 19, 2014 18:05:14 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Yea, that would turn off more fans of DBZ, it could work for a detective show fan or something like Yu Gi Oh.

I like it because it works well for the series and another things is unlike other series. The villains aren't always beaten by the end of the arc.

Do they come back and present a challenge later? Or do they just get blown away unable to catch up?

[JACK-2]

They comeback and are still very much a threat. The reason being is every arc, new enemies come that are vastly more powerful than the main cast. It might two arcs before the main characters are as strong as the villains they faces two arcs ago. They don't win by power, but tactics. Sometimes they don't even always win. Last arc the big bad was

SPOILER: Click to show

Beaten by the main character, but it cost him his life and powers. He got the former back in one arc, but he still doesn't have his powers and thus had to sit out the biggest arc out their.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Explain to me how the world and powers work, (perhaps this would be better on another thread).

[JACK-2]

Aug 19, 2014 18:22:35 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Explain to me how the world and powers work, (perhaps this would be better on another thread).

No, it's fine.

They use an energy system called nen. It's the energy of the body, most people can't see it because the aura nodes which the energy comes out of in their eyes is shut. Normally, a persons aura nodes are closed[ Zetsu]. Once they open all their nodes, specifically the ones in their eyes they can see. However, when they open all their aura nodes the energy will escape and they'll burn out unless they use Ten. Which allows them to control the flow of aura surrounding their body. They also have a specific technique unique to their personality called Hatsu. This is like their special technique and it depends on your nen type.

Nen types are as follows: Enhancement [Can enhance the qualities or quantity of something. This is your typical bruiser: Super strength, Enhance vision, healing, etc.] They can also enhance the strength of objects.

Manipulation: As the name suggest, they can manipulate objects or people with Nen.

Transmutation: Can transmutate their aura so it can take on the properties of other things like elements or objects

Emition: Can emitt Aura to far distances

Conjuration: Can conjure objects from their mind.

Specialization: Any power that doesn't fit into the above descriptions.

Each person is born into a type and can't change it. But, Conjurers can become Specialist in time. I think Manipulators can as well.


Also, there are no power ups. If you wan to get more power you have to make a nen covenant. Which is you give your power a specific set of conidtions in exchange for more power. Plus nen gets weaker or stronger depending on your mental state.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Aug 19, 2014 18:44:16 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Aug 19, 2014 18:22:35 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Explain to me how the world and powers work, (perhaps this would be better on another thread).

No, it's fine.

They use an energy system called nen. It's the energy of the body, most people can't see it because the aura nodes which the energy comes out of in their eyes is shut. Normally, a persons aura nodes are closed[ Zetsu]. Once they open all their nodes, specifically the ones in their eyes they can see. However, when they open all their aura nodes the energy will escape and they'll burn out unless they use Ten. Which allows them to control the flow of aura surrounding their body. They also have a specific technique unique to their personality called Hatsu. This is like their special technique and it depends on your nen type.

Nen types are as follows: Enhancement [Can enhance the qualities or quantity of something. This is your typical bruiser: Super strength, Enhance vision, healing, etc.] They can also enhance the strength of objects.

Manipulation: As the name suggest, they can manipulate objects or people with Nen.

Transmutation: Can transmutate their aura so it can take on the properties of other things like elements or objects

Emition: Can emitt Aura to far distances

Conjuration: Can conjure objects from their mind.

Specialization: Any power that doesn't fit into the above descriptions.

Each person is born into a type and can't change it. But, Conjurers can become Specialist in time. I think Manipulators can as well.


Also, there are no power ups. If you wan to get more power you have to make a nen covenant. Which is you give your power a specific set of conidtions in exchange for more power. Plus nen gets weaker or stronger depending on your mental state.

This kind of reminds me of the wizards in the Baldur's Gate system somewhat. With the different schools of magic. I'm liking this more and more.

[JACK-2]

Yes, Togashi plays alot of Rpgs. He used the RPG class system as the inspiration for nen types [I'm the only person that noticed this apparently].

There's much more too.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

You noticed because you're brilliant.

How much more is there?

[JACK-2]

Aug 19, 2014 18:55:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

You noticed because you're brilliant.

How much more is there?

Thanks for the compliment.

Well, there are techniques about aura flow as well. You can partition you aura and it determines how much defense you have. Before I got into this, I forgot about one basic technique call "Ren". It allows you to produce more aura all over you body. When you maintain Ren for a long period of time it's called "Ken". When two people are using Ken and attack each other, they don't take remarkable damage because the aura is evenly distributed all over their vessel. If they want to injure their opponent as he uses Ken they need a higher concentration of aura channeled into their: fist or weapon.

This goes back to what I said about partition. They can partition more aura to a specific part of their body or weapon. This technique of partitioning aura to specific parts of the body is called "Ryu". If they concentrate all their aura to one specific spot then it's called "Kou".