Street Fighter 5 Announced: PC and PS4 Only With Cross Play!

[JACK-2]

I knew they were doing this to favor Americans.I don't get this, online play is the choice in North America. Why not make a better netcode instead of crippling an entire section of FGC just to make it equal for westerners?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 13:32:04 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I knew they were doing this to favor Americans.I don't get this, online play is the choice in North America. Why not make a better netcode instead of crippling an entire section of FGC just to make it equal for westerners?

Well also from what I gather, the arcade scenes are taking a hit. Businesses are always coming down to making more money, if they feel they can't make as much profit they'll do something else.

I'm sure the people who were going to get SFV in Japan will still get it, they'll just play at home or use their netcode (which is super good).

I think the "equal" part comes where Japanese players got an arcade port months before Americans got the game, which gave them an edge competitively. I imagine that could have something to do with it too.

[JACK-2]

I don't mind there bieng a late arcade port. But, no arcade port doesn't square with me. Alot of japanese play arcades because people generally like gaming as a social activity which is why portables and arcades are still a thing. Online doesnt get as much play because consoles are nowhere near as big as portables and arcades.

Ono claiming arcades taking a hit is half true. They have taken a hit, but consoles have taken an even bigger hit in Japan. Not that many people are gonna get a console just to play sf5. Ono just killed the Japanese sf scene.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 13:47:44 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I don't mind there bieng a late arcade port. But, no arcade port doesn't square with me. Alot of japanese play arcades because people generally like gaming as a social activity which is why portables and arcades are still a thing. Online doesnt get as much play because consoles are nowhere near as big as portables and arcades.

Ono claiming arcades taking a hit is half true. They have taken a hit, but consoles have taken an even bigger hit in Japan. Not that many people are gonna get a console just to play sf5. Ono just killed the Japanese sf scene.

Right, it seems to be more of a globalization thing if anything. I know Japanese players are fond of the PC, but I figure the serious players will have a console/PC regardless there. I notice SNK is stopping their pachinko machine business there so maybe things are changing.

I don't think it will kill it but it will change. This wasn't recently announced if I'm not mistaken. I think they feel that their model favors more consoles with their global approach. We'll have to see though.

[JACK-2]

These companies will do what is in their best interest. Which is fine
But, I have too much self respect to bend over and take whatever they choose to dish. If Capcom wants to turn Street Fighter into league of legends just so they can capitalize on the E-sports market. They can go right ahead.

This is what we meant about companies screwing over their old fanbase. Either way, I'm done. I have alot more respect for Harada than Ono. I'm looking forward to Tekken 7 and I'll play Doa. Super scrub fighter 5: Online Warrior can get bent.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 14:06:56 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

These companies will do what is in their best interest. Which is fine
But, I have too much self respect to bend over and take whatever they choose to dish. If Capcom wants to turn Street Fighter into league of legends just so they can capitalize on the E-sports market. They can go right ahead.

This is what we meant about companies screwing over their old fanbase. Either way, I'm done. I have alot more respect for Harada than Ono. I'm looking forward to Tekken 7 and I'll play Doa. Super scrub fighter 5: Online Warrior can get bent.

Well yea, I'm not saying buy the game. They mentioned they'd be turning the game into the MOBA of fighters, so we knew that was coming. I don't think not having an arcade release has anything to do with it being more "casualized" gameplay wise, they did that because it suited their business interests. There are many casual arcade games and hardcore ones. Arcades don't make a game deeper or more difficult. I think that's more of an antiquated "for the community" type of thing.

That said I would want whatever is feasible and makes them the most money. If the arcade format works, why not do it and make the money, as long as they get the games the same time.

I don't see the relevance to American gamers. Arcades are dead here and nobody plays them except for a few areas, Japan's climate has no impact on that. They're still densely populated and can have gatherings in public places and play, I'm sure they'll adapt. Plus their online is way better. If I had their online here I wouldn't touch an arcade tbh, especially since I have a gaming desktop/laptop. Different strokes I guess.

[JACK-2]

The game was already being casualized. It's not SF4 levels, yet. But, even SF4 had a healthy arcade scene and online presence. While it doesn't affect the North American scene. I do enjoy the fact that somewhere in the world there is a large off-line scene dedicated into a game. Offline has a higher skill bracket because online isn't of a capable caliber yet. That might change in the future, but for now it's still an issue.

While they can still have gatherings with consoles, I doubt they'll bother. Japanese gamers are very picky, plus other 2-D games are more popular anyway like Air-dash fighters. Street Fighter almost died during the late 90's after 3s. Because they did a small revival in North America with 4 they're trying to cater to mostly an american fanbase. Which I personally don't really follow, I've always followed Japanese arcade players for fighting games with the exception of DOA. So, I just don't see myself sticking around.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 14:34:09 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

The game was already being casualized. It's not SF4 levels, yet. But, even SF4 had a healthy arcade scene and online presence. While it doesn't affect the North American scene. I do enjoy the fact that somewhere in the world there is a large off-line scene dedicated into a game. Offline has a higher skill bracket because online isn't of a capable caliber yet. That might change in the future, but for now it's still an issue.

I find that odd because some people are already saying it's even more casualized than 4. I guess it's more casualized in certain aspects. The arcade scene here is dead and the game sold more in America. People in Japan can play offline, and their online *is* good, they do host Topanga on it after all. It's not so much the arcade scene that makes them good, it has more to do with their tightly populated area with lots of players nearby at a moment's notice where American players have a large distance between them *and* far worse internet. The Japanese players have online that's like playing offline going by what I heard from people who live there and have traveled there, they can play online and offline.

Look at other countries like Mexico with KoF. They don't have the tightly populated areas Japan has and many countries people play on PC and they still produce top players so I don't see it as a major issue.

Nov 22, 2015 14:34:09 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

While they can still have gatherings with consoles, I doubt they'll bother. Japanese gamers are very picky, plus other 2-D games are more popular anyway like Air-dash fighters. Street Fighter almost died during the late 90's after 3s. Because they did a small revival in North America with 4 they're trying to cater to mostly an american fanbase. Which I personally don't really follow, I've always followed Japanese arcade players for fighting games with the exception of DOA. So, I just don't see myself sticking around.

Well with a game like Street Fighter people will just play it no matter what for the most part, other games have all of the elements people say they want and they ignore it. 3s didn't appeal to very many people despite the "arcade hype" it pushed it catered to a very small audience and it was part of the reason that fighters struggled against that time. Air-dashers are popular in arcades though.

I don't see how it was catered more to an American culture with SF4. They have Japanese tournaments and many Japanese players plus they got the arcade version way before Americans got to play them. I'm just not a "Japan is better because it's Japan" kind of person. Japan is better at certain games because of their geographical advantage and superior online and part of it is cultural as well.

I think it's too soon to say that they killed the Japanese scene entirely. I don't think it's a conspiracy on Japan's part to sink their own gamer base, Capcom is still Japanese too.  In my opinion this game has more of a global approach seeing they've been showcasing it at Paris and Dubai. They seem to want a network where the world plays. Hopefully they have the skills to pull off their vision.

[JACK-2]

I personally prefer the smaller local niche aspects of games. I'm not too keen on it being globalized at the expense of that scene. 3s died because it came out at a time where arcades where on their last leg in the U.S. and it didn't take advantage of online play which became really REALLY big with X-Box. Dreamcast had online play before the X-box, but the support was poor.

I get they want to globalize, but Japan has always been a Galapagos market meaning it has trends not found in other major markets. If the aforementioned fact means they have to streamline everything. Then so be it, either way I'm done. I'll post on the other threads, but not this one as to not spoil the game for everyone.

[WarMachineRhodey]

Nov 22, 2015 13:58:09 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Nov 22, 2015 13:47:44 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Right, it seems to be more of a globalization thing if anything. I know Japanese players are fond of the PC, but I figure the serious players will have a console/PC regardless there. I notice SNK is stopping their pachinko machine business there so maybe things are changing.

I don't think it will kill it but it will change. This wasn't recently announced if I'm not mistaken. I think they feel that their model favors more consoles with their global approach. We'll have to see though.

Japanese fighting game players like the PC platform? I didnt know about this. 

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 15:00:01 GMT -5 WarMachineRhodey said:

Nov 22, 2015 13:58:09 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Right, it seems to be more of a globalization thing if anything. I know Japanese players are fond of the PC, but I figure the serious players will have a console/PC regardless there. I notice SNK is stopping their pachinko machine business there so maybe things are changing.

I don't think it will kill it but it will change. This wasn't recently announced if I'm not mistaken. I think they feel that their model favors more consoles with their global approach. We'll have to see though.

Japanese fighting game players like the PC platform? I didnt know about this. 

I don't know about FGC players but from what I understand it's either handheld, arcade, or PC (mostly for specific genres).

Nov 22, 2015 14:59:46 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I personally prefer the smaller local niche aspects of games. I'm not too keen on it being globalized at the expense of that scene. 3s died because it came out at a time where arcades where on their last leg in the U.S. and it didn't take advantage of online play which became really REALLY big with X-Box. Dreamcast had online play before the X-box, but the support was poor.

I get they want to globalize, but Japan has always been a Galapagos market meaning it has trends not found in other major markets. If the aforementioned fact means they have to streamline everything. Then so be it, either way I'm done. I'll post on the other threads, but not this one as to not spoil the game for everyone.

Well SF5 was already clear on trying to globalize fighting games, so that wasn't a secret. I've never been a big "it's the SCENE man". I mean I have no problem with people playing that way but some people make it seem like you're not really playing a fighting game without "THE SCENE" and that's proving to be outdated because the scene is much larger than the local arcade in 2015. The Japanese can still play locally on console if they so desire, so it's not like they don't have the option. They just don't have the arcade option.

3s died because it had an unappealing roster and because of the different style of gameplay that turned people off. There were some other minor factors but I don't think those two can be denied when Alpha and Marvel were still popular and 3s was pretty much dead. 3s fans don't want to admit that that style of a game won't come back. Now I'm not saying we should have the entire direction of SFV, because I dislike elements about SF4 and SF5, but I recognize they're trying to make it mainstream. It doesn't affect us American players and we aren't part of the scene and we can still enjoy their gameplay content without being there so it's not the end of the world to me.

That said I feel alienating core players with some design decisions on top of the censorship isn't a good way to go. Japan has always been more traditional and slower to adapt but that approach is leaving them behind when it comes to western developers. They seem to feel that arcades aren't having the same profitability as before.

I prefer to have as many options as possible, but I can see where they're coming from. That said the DLC model could be a part of not having arcades as maybe updating them wouldn't be as efficient in that format. I think the main reason arcades are dying is because of casual play and the fact that people don't want to leave their rooms, more than it being a conspiracy.

You can post here if you like, most people are bashing SFV at this point anyways. I think much of it is just knee jerking all around because of certain aspects (some I dislike myself) which I found draining and that's why I was focusing on other topics. SFV is just getting too much attention lol.

[JACK-2]

I'm not a scene person either. I like more options, I always was okay with online play and what not. I just want different ways to play to still be viable. Even the dated and traditional ones.

I remember for sure Ono stating that 3s did bad because of arcade situation in america. In Japanese arcades 3s did waaay better than Marvel and probably better than Alpha 3.

I'm all for globalization, but not at the expense of traditional forms of play. I guess things change, but that was my pull: The Japanese Arcade scene. Even though, I live in the U.S. I never cared much for a scene outside of FFA 3s.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 15:47:10 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I'm not a scene person either. I like more options, I always was okay with online play and what not. I just want different ways to play to still be viable. Even the dated and traditional ones.

I remember for sure Ono stating that 3s did bad because of arcade situation in america. In Japanese arcades 3s did waaay better than Marvel and probably better than Alpha 3.

I'm all for globalization, but not at the expense of traditional forms of play. I guess things change, but that was my pull: The Japanese Arcade scene. Even though, I live in the U.S. I never cared much for a scene outside of FFA 3s.

Well that's just an aspect of change. Modern times replace the older times. I hate many aspects of modern gaming too, but I don't think it was an evil conspiracy. I'm an old school lover more than anybody but I can definitely appreciate technology being updated. I still hope for the day where netcode gets to the point where it's offline style worldwide.

Marvel and Alpha were way more successful than 3s, 3s just had a hardcore base in Japan that still plays it. Nobody ever played it much here because New Generation turned them off, by the time 3s came along Americans left it behind.

3s is the cult classic of SF. It has a superstrong base, and it has some revived popularity but it didn't do as well as other games. Despite all of the dumb things SFV is doing they definitely won't have a roster of new characters and only Ryu and Ken. That would kill it faster than censorship ever could.

[JACK-2]

I don't think it's an evil conspiracy either, if Capcom is doing what it thinks is in it's best interest. I'll follow suite because I don't wanna be a part of something I don't like.

What's funny is 3s still has tourneys now in Japan with things like Gamenewton still going today while Marvel [Both 2 and 3] are basically dead. The people who will drop a game because it only has Ken and Ryu in it are alot of the times the same people who'll pick up a game because it's Street Fighter. I don't know how many copies 3s sold because I've never seen the data, but even by that point arcades were already dead. Alpha 3 ps1 port did good which is why that game is considered a success same with marvel. It wasn't because of the Arcade versions they were selling. 3s basically had a port on a dead console by that time. It didn't get a port on PS2 until anniversary edition.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 16:32:42 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I don't think it's an evil conspiracy either, if Capcom is doing what it thinks is in it's best interest. I'll follow suite because I don't wanna be a part of something I don't like.

What's funny is 3s still has tourneys now in Japan with things like Gamenewton still going today while Marvel [Both 2 and 3] are basically dead. The people who will drop a game because it only has Ken and Ryu in it are alot of the times the same people who'll pick up a game because it's Street Fighter. I don't know how many copies 3s sold because I've never seen the data, but even by that point arcades were already dead. Alpha 3 ps1 port did good which is why that game is considered a success same with marvel. It wasn't because of the Arcade versions they were selling. 3s basically had a port on a dead console by that time.

Well ok, before you made it seem like it was Capcom hating Japan and wanting to kill itself, which doesn't seem necessary. We'll have to see how it goes. The reality is that online is growing and scenes are dying off worldwide. the convenience of being able to play at home is too much, and people won't sit around trying to find "a scene" when there are other options like FPS games. Japan might be stronger in the arcade aspect but it's going to die off eventually.

Yes but Street Fighter *is* Street Fighter beause of the characters. The 3s fans often say "characters don't matter it's the gameplay" and then cream their pants when they saw Alex and Urien were coming to 5. If you don't have superstar characters you won't sell. Not even SF could pull it off. You'll get the diehards but the casual audience will be alienated. Just like taking Nintendo characters out of Smash or everybody but Scorpion or Sub Zero in Mortal Kombat. Games have to appeal to the mainstream to sell, if they don't you get... 3s.

I hate the dumbing down of mechanics but I understand they have to appeal to the bases. I'd rather them add flash than dumb down the game though.

It's funny because I'm hearing someone argue about KoF XIII dying because people didn't care about "the scene" and "we don't need online to make a game work". Yea right, these people are delusional. Not with all the options we have. I prefer the look of XIII but I know SNK needs to make money too so I'll tolerate the new look, kind of the same thing here.

[JACK-2]

It's not for me, it's all about gameplay for myself. There were 3S characters in 4 and I did not bat an eye. Granted there are some exceptions like Karin and R.Mika who I haven't seen in years. But, I like games that try new things. But, people like seeing fan favorites. So, I can't win that battle.

I don't think online play will replace how Japanese players play. They do their own thing over there, social gaming will always be a thing. I don't hate online play, I just hate one being thrown under the bus for another. I hate poseurs who act like we can have a serious offline scene in North america. We can't and that's okay. I just don't want to lose the few offline scenes we do have. It may not affect North American players, but as gamer who follows more than one scene it affects myself.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 16:46:47 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

It's not for me, it's all about gameplay for myself. There were 3S characters in 4 and I did not bat an eye. Granted there are some exceptions like Karin and R.Mika who I haven't seen in years. But, I like games that try new things. But, people like seeing fan favorites. So, I can't win that battle.

I don't think online play will replace how Japanese players play. They do their own thing over there, social gaming will always be a thing. I don't hate online play, I just hate one being thrown under the bus for another. I hate poseurs who act like we can have a serious offline scene in North america. We can't and that's okay. I just don't want to lose the few offline scenes we do have. It may not affect North American players, but as gamer who follows more than one scene it affects myself.

I mean we all have our favorite characters and there's nothing wrong with tha but people have to recognize the brand and feel attached to it. I recall you saying SF is your favorite series overall, there has to be something more than just gameplay, because nobody plays games like Virtua Fighter or games with more solid gameplay. You don't like the lore of the characters or some of the stuff they did in SF2V or anything else? Otherwise they could just make stick figures and the game would sell. The looks and ambiance of the game matter no matter how "hardcore" people are. I guess if someone is only in it for money they might not care.

The online change will happen slowly. It won't happen overnight, but times change and it's odd because Japan is fast on tech but slower on tradition, but they can't avoid what the rest of the world is doing forever. They've already started making more and more PC games so they have to catch up.

I don't want to lose anything. People can do what they want with their own time and energy. Nobody is making Japan not play offline if they so choose, they'll just have to adapt. Offline is available but arcades aren't. That just means no arcade scene or online. Now if the game had no offline capabilities, then I would worry.

[JACK-2]

I did care about the lore back before SF4 was out. I liked SF3 story and how it moved away for a while from Bison and Shadowloo. The thing is bringing back the same characters doesn't help the story. Ryu, Ken, Akuma and Chun li came back which was cool and I wouldn't mind some characters coming back if they made it cool. But, alot of these characters aren't even central to the story and their back. I mean they brought back Gouken and by that point the story went south. I rather see new World Warriors and new direction. Even if it mean't 3s characters did not come back.

What happened instead was that the lore took a dive for popularity and the story got considerably worst. Street Fighter 4 story was garbage, Five doesn't look like it will be better either.

I dunno if japan is making PC games because they want an overseas audience or because of change within Japan itself. I believe it's the former since the internet while much faster isn't as ubiquitous over there as in here. You can see that in the general: Lack of free Wi-Fi, lack of online options for business, generally little to no Web 2.0 applications, and just overall catching up with the U.S. despite the fact the internet started in Japan the sametime as it did with the U.S.

Capcom's been wanting to globalize for a while because the Japanese market is shrinking due to lack of young people and children. It's inevitable and I accept that because staying in Japan isn't viable it's too insular. I'm just scared that they'll become like western deelopers. I guess I'm too pessimistic. SF5 gameplay wise is still good compared to SF4 which was super scrubby. I just don't want Japan to become 100% western, but I'd be lying if I said becoming more Globalized is bad. Capcom's been saying they want this for a while and so, it's not outta of the blue.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 17:18:01 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I did care about the lore back before SF4 was out. I liked SF3 story and how it moved away for a while from Bison and Shadowloo. The thing is bringing back the same characters doesn't help the story. Ryu, Ken, Akuma and Chun li came back which was cool and I wouldn't mind some characters coming back if they made it cool. But, alot of these characters aren't even central to the story and their back. I mean they brought back Gouken and by that point the story went south. I rather see new World Warriors and new direction. Even if it mean't 3s characters did not come back.

What happened instead was that the lore took a dive for popularity and the story got considerably worst. Street Fighter 4 story was garbage, Five doesn't look like it will be better either.

I dunno if japan is making PC games because they want an overseas audience or because of change within Japan itself. I believe it's the former since the internet while much faster isn't as ubiquitous over there as in here. You can see that in the general: Lack of free Wi-Fi, lack of online options for business, generally little to no Web 2.0 applications, and just overall catching up with the U.S. despite the fact the internet started in Japan the sametime as it did with the U.S.

Capcom's been wanting to globalize for a while because the Japanese market is shrinking due to lack of young people and children. It's inevitable and I accept that because staying in Japan isn't viable it's too insular. I'm just scared that they'll become like western deelopers. I guess I'm too pessimistic. SF5 gameplay wise is still good compared to SF4 which was super scrubby. I just don't want Japan to become 100% western, but I'd be lying if I said becoming more Globalized is bad. Capcom's been saying they want this for a while and so, it's not outta of the blue.

Comics and video games bring characters back all of the time because they sell. The story can have retcons and the like and still be good. They barely focused on the story in SF4 and SF3 didn't have much of a story either. SFA3 had the only decent attempt at that. There is no way the game would sell if the characters were stick figures, people care about the characters. No characters, no SF because the mechanics change all of the time.

Japan just wants to make money and they realize they have to cater to the west if they want to do it.

Japan is also a much smaller population than the rest of the world. They want a worldwide population like most businesses, they can't cater to such a small base if they want to succeed. Business 101.


I don't think it has to be "westernized". It just means more use of modern technology and getting more people in. Which is what all companies want to do. I mean I love VF but nobody else plays it but talks about how good it is, which is why I find the "for the gameplay" talk suspect amongst most. People like SF because they do, nothing wrong with admitting it. It's all good.

[JACK-2]

SF3 did have a strong story but it wasn't accessible due to mistranslations. Story wise SF2 SFA2 and SF3 have the best stories. Comics catch alot of flak for doing that too, it cheapens death and makes it like a soap opera. Besides, the story for games doesn't interest me as much because of cheap devices like retcons and sudden resurrections.

Yes, I get that because right now the the market is growing alot in North America and Western Europe. Globalizing and catering to a growing market is good, but look what has happened with the censorship. Don't get me started with SJW. So, there's downsides as well. But, if Street Fighter remained in Japan it would shrink to obscurity. I can't knock Capcom for wanting to make money and it doesn't automatically mean the game will be bad. But, "The scene" is dead to me. If I do play this game, I'll just shut up and play.

Small games like VF and Guilty Gear have a much smaller base and are better for community then stuff like SF or smash.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 17:39:17 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

SF3 did have a strong story but it wasn't accessible due to mistranslations. Story wise SF2 SFA2 and SF3 have the best stories. Comics catch alot of flak for doing that too, it cheapens death and makes it like a soap opera. Besides, the story for games doesn't interest me as much because of cheap devices like retcons and sudden resurrections.

Yes, I get that because right now the the market is growing alot in North America and Western Europe. Globalizing and catering to a growing market is good, but look what has happened with the censorship. Don't get me started with SJW. So, there's downsides as well. But, if Street Fighter remained in Japan it would shrink to obscurity. I can't knock Capcom for wanting to make money and it doesn't automatically mean the game will be bad. But, "The scene" is dead to me. If I do play this game, I'll just shut up and play.

Small games like VF and Guilty Gear have a much smaller base and are better for community then stuff like SF or smash.

I didn't really see much of a story in the game, there was some but it wasn't much at all.

Bad writing devices can definitely hurt a story but SF doesn't focus on it much. MK focuses much more on the story and it's more entertaining to most despite having a lot of cheesy elements there. SF3 just had cutscenes at the end from what I recall.

SJW isn't because of globalization because Americans do it to Americans the most. That's because developers are just pandering to idiot groups, they can choose not to do that but they do anyways. Other games release to the west without that problem.

As far as the scene was concerned, you weren't playing in it. That's why I'm confused. I could see if you were actually there but from America it doesn't affect your personal gameplay of the actual game. You could still watch streams of people playing. I don't know I guess people just have their things they all care about. Most people didn't want to make a scene in the US work so why a scene across the world is more important is foreign to me. The "scene" is only dead because people let it die. If people are unwilling to adapt and play on console then that's their choice.

I don't think it is better for community stuff. Those games are dead in most of the world and get no new blood and therefore there's not enough money to attract competitors. Look at KoF. People talk about how "good" the game is, but nobody plays it. You go to most places people play for 5 seconds and then drop out and go play Street Fighter. Most people just talk crap about keeping "the scene" alive and then go play whatever's convenient. It's fine but they should be honest. Most people just don't want to drive out of the way to keep a scene alive, that's why online is growing and arcades are shrinking. Businesses only make money by satisfying the desires of customers.

[JACK-2]

Alot of SF games rely on databooks and other sources for tidbits. The SF3 bible had some of the tidbits.

Yeah, but SJW is becoming a problem in the North American market especially in the last five years. Look at how they affect gaming journalism. Didn't you say that SJW affected SF5 via censorship?

I followed it religiously. I always watch people play from: 3S to SF4 and even SFXT. You're right about me not being a part of it, but I'am very much attached to it. But, It couldn't last since I was too far away for me to take part in it I'm afraid.

Like I said, I was never part of that crowd in North American gaming. I always said it never made sense to drive 300 miles for 100$. I did like how the Japanese scene was set up but it's not the norm around the world I suppose. We're seeing a much more globalized game approach with Simultaneous releases of games vs Japan getting it a year before like it used to be.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 18:06:57 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Alot of SF games rely on databooks and other sources for tidbits. The SF3 bible had some of the tidbits.

Yeah, but SJW is becoming a problem in the North American market especially in the last five years. Look at how they affect gaming journalism. Didn't you say that SJW affected SF5 via censorship?

I followed it religiously. I always watch people play from: 3S to SF4 and even SFXT. You're right about me not being a part of it, but I'am very much attached to it. But, It couldn't last since I was too far away for me to take part in it I'm afraid.

Like I said, I was never part of that crowd in North American gaming. I always said it never made sense to drive 300 miles for 100$. I did like how the Japanese scene was set up but it's not the norm around the world I suppose. We're seeing a much more globalized game approach with Simultaneous releases of games vs Japan getting it a year before like it used to be.

Yea but most people aren't going to pick up those books. Many of which aren't canon.

SJW is a problem but it's not globalization that's causing it. It's just mainstream nonsense and political correctness. Capcom didn't have to bend over backwards and they've released games in multiple countries without censoring it before, so I don't treat the two like it's the same issue.

But if players continue to release content of them matching I don't see how it makes a difference. I mean I can watch Topanga league with online matches and enjoy it. I could watch a stream and enjoy it, or just people playing at home, why does it *have* to be an arcade. That's what I'm not getting. Is it nostalgia? I watch foreign matches of VF and Kof from other countries and they're streamed in many cases and I enjoy it just fine. How is this going to stop you from getting Japanese content?

I just like whatever games are entertaining to me. I know you're a bit of a weeaboo though. .

If you hate SFV that's all fine and dandy, I guess I was just trying to see how it would spell the end of Japanese competitive gaming, it just seems a bit dramatic to me.

[JACK-2]

The canon is a bit difficult to surmise I suppose.

I guess i wrap it into one because the main force behind SJW is western gaming. Even though, they serve multiple markets they tend to peddle this garbage.

Arcade gaming is intrinsic to Japanese high level play. People don't mess with consoles over there that much. Outside of a few players that play overseas alot like Daigo or Tokido. Arcades also tend to have their own tight knit media, tourneys and culture. Where alot of local players play games for a specific arcade for years. They don't feel like international tournaments, they don't have that same feel. Arcades are very important to whether or not they play a fighting game.

That culture will still be alive, but SF just won't be apart of it. It's a very specific thing, granted SF is more international now so it probably won't affect the world. But, I'll miss it.

[JACK-2]

Also, I don't hate SF5. I understand what they are trying to do. I just don't like the change. But, I get why they're doing it and I cannot blame them.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 18:26:13 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

The canon is a bit difficult to surmise I suppose.

I guess i wrap it into one because the main force behind SJW is western gaming. Even though, they serve multiple markets they tend to peddle this garbage.

Arcade gaming is intrinsic to Japanese high level play. People don't mess with consoles over there that much. Outside of a few players that play overseas alot like Daigo or Tokido. Arcades also tend to have their own tight knit media, tourneys and culture. Where alot of local players play games for a specific arcade for years. They don't feel like international tournaments, they don't have that same feel. Arcades are very important to whether or not they play a fighting game.

That culture will still be alive, but SF just won't be apart of it. It's a very specific thing, granted SF is more international now so it probably won't affect the world. But, I'll miss it.

I don't see how it makes the story quality, much of SF3 was just a rehash of old favorites and much of it went nowhere. More characters often add loose ends.

But online getting more prevalent is due to technology not SJW's. SJW's just came into gaming because it was more popular and they wanted a piece of the pie. People always want to be on the latest "thing".


Well different games have different playstyles. If Capcom feels arcade is dying over there, they wouldn't purposefully shoot themselves in the foot by screwing over their main audience. If this game is mega popular they'll find a way to play it. Other games have updates that aren't arcade and people still stream them. Kof Cafeid is a perfect example.

Either way saying it'll fail is big speculation, but what I want to understand is, if they continue to release gaming matches for you to watch from Japan would you watch them or would you not because it wasn't at an arcade. This is what I'm wondering. Are you saying you'd miss the matches because it isn't at the arcade?

[JACK-2]

It was a new direction but it didn't go anywhere because they never finished it. It was a post SF2 story and I loved it. Capcom has done it before see: Megaman X. I just wish they connected it more to SF2, but they never got the chance.

Online became big because it did extremely well in North America where players don't have such a high population density. SJW became a thing because it's mainstream and Global. SJW is something every mainstream game has to deal with.

If people are gathering to play SFV in a makeshift arcade cab using a console or just playing with controllers in some location then I'm okay. As long as they are gathering to play games like they do when they play arcades. That's all. I've never seen that type gathering for a console game which is why I'm skeptical.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 18:40:02 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

It was a new direction but it didn't go anywhere because they never finished it. It was a post SF2 story and I loved it. Capcom has done it before see: Megaman X. I just wish they connected it more to SF2, but they never got the chance.

Online became big because it did extremely well in North America where players don't have such a high population density. SJW became a thing because it's mainstream and Global. SJW is something every mainstream game has to deal with.

If people are gathering to play SFV in a makeshift arcade cab using a console or just playing with controllers in some location then I'm okay. As long as they are gathering to play games like they do when they play arcades. That's all. I've never seen that type gathering for a console game which is why I'm skeptical.

So it wasn't really a completed product, it could have been something but they didn't take it anywhere.

Online is big globally as most people just don't have Japanese population density. Arcades WERE big in the past but people just don't want to go through huge inconvenience to play a game, it's absurd that most people would want to do that. Maybe 1 or 2% of the population do who are super hardcore, but it's not a reality anymore in the 21st century. Times have changed. We don't use dial up anymore and we don't drive out of our way to play.

Agreed on the SJW part. Oddly enough they ignore super mainstream stuff like movies and tv more and more nowadays. Guess they've already destroyed that.

They might have to adapt, but even then there are many Japanese streams and even Japanese online tournaments because they have good netcode. Some of the best things I've seen are from these streams. Would you completely turn down all streaming opportunities like Topanga if they presented themselves?

SFV is good in some ways and meh in others. It's just a game to me so no "hate".

[JACK-2]

I definitely welcome online, I hate pseudo elitism where people pretend their hardcore because they hate online. I don't want online to be thrown under the bus, I don't want anything thrown under the bus. Arcades are dated and the market place in japan is it's own thing. I dunno what's going to happen, though. I'am pessimistic for the arcade market over there. But, I mean Japan is just one scene and it's not even a relevant scene just a nice tight knit one. I don't know if there's a big push for streams relative to arcades. There are alot of new players doing streams. This is a completely different approach even more radical than SF4 with the MOBA of fighting games approach. So, we'll see.

I feel that the scene will skew more western in SF5.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Nov 22, 2015 18:57:56 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I definitely welcome online, I hate pseudo elitism where people pretend their hardcore because they hate online. I don't want online to be thrown under the bus, I don't want anything thrown under the bus. Arcades are dated and the market place in japan is it's own thing. I dunno what's going to happen, though. I'am pessimistic for the arcade market over there. But, I mean Japan is just one scene and it's not even a relevant scene just a nice tight knit one. I don't know if there's a big push for streams relative to arcades. There are alot of new players doing streams. This is a completely different approach even more radical than SF4 with the MOBA of fighting games approach. So, we'll see.

I feel that the scene will skew more western in SF5.

They aren't being "thrown under the bus". It's just business decisions about money and technology. It's not a conspiracy or a spiteful action. Why would Japan do it for itself.

I don't see why they'd lie about it dying down over there slowly. For our sakes? I think times are changing and some have a hard time letting it go. I love classic stuff but I also like good change. The market will work itself out. If SF makes bad decisions it will fail. Game wise, content wise, and netplay wise.

Do you mean in terms of numbers or skill?