The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy 
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Sept 20, 2007 7:03:40 GMT -5
It would depend on how Ryu reacts to it... and how willing he is to tap into his own dark powers... Ryu, like Iori has a natural affinity to their darker sides, but while Iori is related to his heritage, Ryu's responds more to direct affliction of his emotions, since Ryu is so calm and level headed now, it would take an enormous amount of anger and hatred to push him to the point where he starts tapping the Dark Hadou again. Normally, I can't see Ryu doing that, simply because Ryu is now said to be as strong as Alpha Akuma... WITHOUT resorting to using the Murderous Intent... that my friends is a superhuman traight, or at least close to it... So do you think he can take him? |
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Darkstorm Zero
Master of the Fist
I am power made flesh. Feel how weak you truly are !
Posts: 829
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Post by Darkstorm Zero on Sept 21, 2007 0:30:41 GMT -5
Yes, I do beleive that Ryu can take the majority under either set of circumstances, but only by the very hairs on his neck.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Sept 21, 2007 4:18:02 GMT -5
Yes, I do beleive that Ryu can take the majority under either set of circumstances, but only by the very hairs on his neck. Yea, it would be utterly close in scenario two. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Sept 18, 2008 9:53:02 GMT -5
Question Darkstorm, is Iori's divination technique generate flames that Orochi is weak against or is it just pure strength. I remember you and Sado arguing this. What conclusion did you arrive at because the later could spell trouble for Ryu. Also, I've seen brainchild state that Orochi Iori is physically weaker than regular Iori which is why he lost to Ash in that state. . . is this true?
@c-Master: Why do you think it's a slight nod to Ryu if Iori begins to tap into his riot blood/ going all out?
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Post by warmunger on Sept 18, 2008 17:05:12 GMT -5
Ryu has really good feats, Iori's power is based on sencelss A>B>C logic. Ryu has Iori beat horriblly on every aspect that matters in a fight. Iori has NO FEATS!
And so what I'm a Ryu fan, what I say is true. O'course this wont B a walk in the park, but I doubt Ryu would choose 2 fight Iori over Gouki or Sagat. Ryu wont win with Ezz but he wont have to fight 4 his life either.
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Post by JACK-2 on Sept 19, 2008 10:23:20 GMT -5
Well, Ryu does sort of outshine Iori in the feat department. Majority of Iori's feats seem to be concentrated on silly fights where A>B>C logic is used. We should focus on his abilities like his flames and Techniques. I have one last assessment to perform for this bout, but I need Darkstorms help if he ever comes back.
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Post by warmunger on Sept 22, 2008 13:22:29 GMT -5
Well, Ryu does sort of outshine Iori in the feat department. Majority of Iori's feats seem to be concentrated on silly fights where A>B>C logic is used. We should focus on his abilities like his flames and Techniques. I have one last assessment to perform for this bout, but I need Darkstorms help if he ever comes back. Iori's flame use is awesum but Ryu is faster than bullets and if we take it from the Alpha movie, Ryu is EZLY faster than bullets, dodging Iori's flame shouldn't B 2 much of a prolem. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Sept 22, 2008 16:12:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I gave Ryu the speed advantage. But, certain versions of Iori are super fast as well E.G. Orochi Iori.
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Post by warmunger on Sept 27, 2008 12:35:40 GMT -5
But how fast, can we really compare that 2 dodging bullets? That's the thing, the KOF characters R so cool esecially Iori but they have no feats, most of them don't really seem that beyond regular human at all, including the main freaking characters. SNK should put more feats in the game or make more canon movies or close 2 canon movies.
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Post by JACK-2 on Sept 27, 2008 15:41:42 GMT -5
But how fast, can we really compare that 2 dodging bullets? That's the thing, the KOF characters R so cool esecially Iori but they have no feats, most of them don't really seem that beyond regular human at all, including the main freaking characters. SNK should put more feats in the game or make more canon movies or close 2 canon movies. Some of them have been stated to have God like power like: Athena or Kensou's Dragon power or the sacred treasures team. But, they never really get any solid development or effect the plot much. Also, the Bosses are written to be Gods, but at the same time they are jobbers which is dumb. I think we might have to average out different versions of Iori. Also, I think each member of the sacred treasures team contains a kinda of God slaying ability [Divination moves] which is what he used to Hurt orochi, but I heard that it's the only thing capable of hurting Orochi. I need an explanation of this, since I dunno how it works myself. . .Gotta wait for DSZ. |
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Post by warmunger on Oct 4, 2008 15:36:25 GMT -5
And what is Godlike? B-CUZ last time I looked thier version of Godlike was Orochi. And lately at KMC there has been decent arguments diproving Orochi's ubeatable powers. I mean not even the bosses have any decent feats or more than 1 good showing of power, they just solo casts, sumthing I don't think would happen in SF, Bison came close but not even he was jobbed as bad as the KOF bosses. Look at Rugal, he solos an entire cast incuding Kyo's teamates and then gets soloed by Kyo who is shown to B unable to blow his own teamates out of the water. Looking at that can you really gauge a KOF character's power against other VG characters from other companies with out solid feats?
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Post by JACK-2 on Oct 5, 2008 15:35:35 GMT -5
Well, I was referring to abilities that they have. Orochi for instances can rip your soul from your body and crush it or can un-create someone with his power. He's also immortal and can grant people vast powers E.G: elemental and other powers allowing someone to become boss tier characters E.G: Rugal can absorbs peoples powers by touching them, The four emperors [Shermie, Chris, Yashiro, and Goenitz] have what seems to be complete control of Wind, Lightning, Fire, and Earth. Mukai can fossilize individuals and has a highly durable armor. Magaki can manipulate light and open portals to another world. As for jobbing feats, I never counted them because they naturally make no sense. The only legit feats are from the Sacred Treasures team which have the power to seal Orochi [Though, the story in KOF 97 doesn't seem to emphasizes that, seeing how they beat him without Kagura].
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Post by warmunger on Oct 6, 2008 15:42:17 GMT -5
Well, I was referring to abilities that they have. Orochi for instances can rip your soul from your body and crush it or can un-create someone with his power. He's also immortal and can grant people vast powers E.G: elemental and other powers allowing someone to become boss tier characters E.G: Rugal can absorbs peoples powers by touching them, The four emperors [Shermie, Chris, Yashiro, and Goenitz] have what seems to be complete control of Wind, Lightning, Fire, and Earth. Mukai can fossilize individuals and has a highly durable armor. Magaki can manipulate light and open portals to another world. As for jobbing feats, I never counted them because they naturally make no sense. The only legit feats are from the Sacred Treasures team which have the power to seal Orochi [Though, the story doesn't seem to emphasizes that]. I don't think Orochi can rip souls out of strong foes. And I don't think Orochi can make people, i just think he can give people powers. How strong R the powers he gives people, they don't really have any feats? And how much does Rugal's power absobing help, they never really seem to help him. And the 4 emps, they seem to be able to produce and control what they produce but I C no evidence of them actually having an elemental kenesis. Mukai can only fossolize his opponents 4 short periods of time. And this goes back to my point when using Magaki, how well does this "portal 2 other worlds" work? From what I've seen he can only open up worm wholes and he was killed by someone who can't. How strong R these guys, how fast, how durable? Do we no? 4 example, Urien is so strong that he can punch the earth so hard that it makes a volcanic geyser, and then he's durable enuff 2 stand in it. That's a clear feat. N an argument I wouldn't even bring up the fact that Urien can turn his body N2 a super metaloid and he has metalakensis, electrokenesis, and geokenesis. Y do that when he has clear feat like the 1 I mentioned above, c what I mean? |
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Post by JACK-2 on Oct 6, 2008 19:34:07 GMT -5
I don't think Orochi can rip souls out of strong foes. We can't be sure of that, but it depends on how strong they are to resist the ability. And I don't think Orochi can make people, He's shown in game to be able too. How strong R the powers he gives people, they don't really have any feats? You must have a different definition of feats than I do. And how much does Rugal's power absobing help, they never really seem to help him. Due to bad writing, are we gonna factor that into these matches? And the 4 emps, they seem to be able to produce and control what they produce but I C no evidence of them actually having an elemental kenesis. Shermie has summoned bolts of lightning before from the sky. Mukai can only fossolize his opponents 4 short periods of time. And this goes back to my point when using Magaki, how well does this "portal 2 other worlds" work? From what I've seen he can only open up worm wholes and he was killed by someone who can't. How strong R these guys, how fast, how durable? Do we no? Why would someone need to be able to open wormholes in order to kill magaki? Also, we cannot say for sure how long Mukai can fossilize an individual. 4 example, Urien is so strong that he can punch the earth so hard that it makes a volcanic geyser, and then he's durable enuff 2 stand in it. That's a clear feat. N an argument I wouldn't even bring up the fact that Urien can turn his body N2 a super metaloid and he has metalakensis, electrokenesis, and geokenesis. Y do that when he has clear feat like the 1 I mentioned above, c what I mean? He doesn't have Geokensis since he uses super strength to split the ground open. No metalakenesis either [ since his body doesn't actually turn into metal] He can harden his body to become las hard as iron. Also, I just listed the characters abilities. I don't wanna count some of their feats because they make no sense and fail to gauge their powers. Just because SNK writers suck doesn't mean we have to give the characters the short end of the stick. Let's be fair here versus KMC. |
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Post by warmunger on Oct 8, 2008 15:23:33 GMT -5
Well if he wasn't able to do it on Kyo and Iori (2 guys who hane no mental feats) I don't C Y most other characters can't resist
Win?
What I'm saying is, Orochi gives them the powers and then they don't do anything amazing with them, they just get beaten by the hero. Guy gives U the power of wind and U don't do anything like blow a tree away or move a car or knock down a house. U just got special moves that deal with wind. How strong is the wind, is it a breeze or a tornado?
Yes. That shows that he isn't very good at it if guys with out feats can still beat him even tho he has these powers.
How do U know it came from the sky and she didn't just shoot it out that way? Benimaru has the same move, does this mean he has electrokenesis as well?
Cuz with out it in a REAL no jobbing fight Magaki could just spam worm wholes and attack with out B-ing hit. And win any battles with out a scratch ALL the time. And the the game only has you fossilized 4 about a couple seconds before U unfossilize.
SFEC AND wiki says Urien controls Metal, earth and electricty, just as Gill controls Fire, Ice and Miracle.
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Post by JACK-2 on Oct 9, 2008 0:44:40 GMT -5
Well if he wasn't able to do it on Kyo and Iori (2 guys who hane no mental feats) I don't C Y most other characters can't resist Bad writing, Iori also choked Orochi and Kyo had to save him. During return to nothingness. What I'm saying is, Orochi gives them the powers and then they don't do anything amazing with them, they just get beaten by the hero. Yes. That shows that he isn't very good at it if guys with out feats can still beat him even tho he has these powers. Guy gives U the power of wind and U don't do anything like blow a tree away or move a car or knock down a house. U just got special moves that deal with wind. How strong is the wind, is it a breeze or a tornado? Losing to the hero is my major beef with SNK. But, we are not going to use those instances are we? Because it would be no different then when people claimed Iori was God tier because he can defeat Gods and people with god like power. As for their feats, most get one shotted as soon as they appear. So, they have very small feats, but Goenitz can create whirlwinds and I heard he opened a gate that destroyed a stadium. I'm gonna have to search, gimmie sometime. How do U know it came from the sky and she didn't just shoot it out that way? Benimaru has the same move, does this mean he has electrokenesis as well? I never claimed Benimaru has electro-kenesis, though. It's always been stated that he converts his inner power into electricity. Sort of like Denjin Hadouken with Ryu. As for shermie, well we see thunder clouds in the sky and they shoot out a lightning bolt that hits you when she performs the move. Cuz with out it in a REAL no jobbing fight Magaki could just spam worm wholes and attack with out B-ing hit. And win any battles with out a scratch ALL the time. And the the game only has you fossilized 4 about a couple seconds before U unfossilize. Well, he's shown to be able to create portals to redirect his projectiles multiple times and reach far distances. Also, he can teleport. But, if he loses it probably because the same ol' "hero must win" logic. That's most likely a game mechanic unless you believe that everyone can escape being fossilized in four seconds. . .even shingo? Weaker characters might take longer, we cannot say because SNK has horrible writers. I remember the plot guide saying that he controls metal/ earth [same element] because his skin can harden. I have to read up on him. |
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Post by warmunger on Oct 11, 2008 16:20:40 GMT -5
It may B bad writting but with no good writting and no feats, what R U 2 B-leave? B-leave N his special powers which we don't even no how intense they may B or how well they will work?
I didn't C any evidence of that in that move?
But this goes back 2 a point I have been making since I came 2 KMC. SF "God tiers" R totally different from KOF "God tiers". U C in KOF we call characters Gods B-cuz the game says so. N SF we label characters Gods B-cuz of increadible feats. So what If we did consider he chocked SNK's own take on a God, that doesn't mean he will do the same to some 1 like Gouki who has different and better reason 4 B-ing on that tier in his own game.
Hmmm... I don't remeber there B-ing thunder clouds in Shermies moves and really if the only feat or showing she has is controlling thunder than she's still pretty useless in VS threads.
Can we really call it a game mechanic with no proof? I mean it doesn't seem 2 ridiculous 2 assume such a thing C-ing as how it's a special move and not actual fossilization? We never even seen the guy fight outside of pure gameplay
I mean that wood only make sence that he has Geo and electro kenesis, Gill has 2 moves called Pyro and Cryokenesis. R we 2 say that Gill has kenesis with the elements he wields and Urien doesn't even tho they both use the "66 Sacred Techniuqes Of The Illuminati"?
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Post by JACK-2 on Oct 12, 2008 4:06:53 GMT -5
It may B bad writting but with no good writting and no feats, what R U 2 B-leave? B-leave N his special powers which we don't even no how intense they may B or how well they will work? We investigate the mechanics of the characters abilities and their properties with an analytical approach. That way we get to know the character better. Because if debating was simply looking for big bad feats without any in depth analysis I might as well go back to KMC. I didn't C any evidence of that in that move? Me either, that's what I get from using hearsay as evidence. But this goes back 2 a point I have been making since I came 2 KMC. SF "God tiers" R totally different from KOF "God tiers". U C in KOF we call characters Gods B-cuz the game says so. N SF we label characters Gods B-cuz of increadible feats. So what If we did consider he chocked SNK's own take on a God, that doesn't mean he will do the same to some 1 like Gouki who has different and better reason 4 B-ing on that tier in his own game. You have a point a good point because alot of powers: Orochi, Sacred Treasures, Sacred Scrolls and Dragon force or whatever use titles and hype to make them seem powerful. Not all the bosses use that, because some actually have feats. But, they are jobbers because they are KOF bosses. As for Iori choking Gouki and other KOF hero jobber aura BS. . .I never accepted those feats in debates. I've been calling beards on those feats for a while now. Hmmm... I don't remeber there B-ing thunder clouds in Shermies moves and really if the only feat or showing she has is controlling thunder than she's still pretty useless in VS threads. It happens in KOF 2k2 forgot the name of the super, since I haven't played it in a while. She also can draw out electricity: Can we really call it a game mechanic with no proof? I mean it doesn't seem 2 ridiculous 2 assume such a thing C-ing as how it's a special move and not actual fossilization? We never even seen the guy fight outside of pure gameplay You have a point we haven't. Gill has three elements: Fire, Ice, and Miracle. Also, he's stronger than Urien which could explain why he has more techniques. |
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Post by warmunger on Oct 20, 2008 13:41:30 GMT -5
Well I'm sorry but win dealing with me I'm going 2 need sum feats. U could have all the powers in the world but if they R as weak as can B then I really don't think U will B able 2 stand against sum 1 with the power 2 lift boulders and dodge bullets. And I wish people at KMC did use feats instead of who they liked more, that's Y we have Cloud beating Gouki over there.
That's what I think people misunderstood about me, they thought I was sum huge SF fanboy, but I like KOF 2. I have almost every KOF game so win sum 1 makes a claim, disproving or proving is as E-Z as turning the game on and looking. And if U have a compilation game then it's really E-Z. U would B amazed at how much of the stuff posted in argument for KOF is wrong over at KMC. I really don't bother with that place anymore.
Now I'm not saying that Gouki and Bison can beat Orochi B-cuz I do B-leave he was horribly jobbed but win people say Iori can choke out an SNK God so that means he can choke out Gouki I think it's BS. And U might think that's an exaggeration but Sado and Xeno have used that 4 thier basis on Y Iori can take out Gill, Oro, and Gouki.
I couldn't C anything N that vid but since U went out of the way to find a vid I will take U'R word 4 it.
I B-leave Urien has kenesis over his 3 elements just like Gill. And Urien's profile SFEC states that he is equal to Gill, they just have very different powers and as dumb as it sounds thier is a kenisis for controlling just metal: Magnetokenisis. But that's dumb still C-ing as how Urien controls earth 2. So I supose rather than have 3 different elements he has an intense lvl of control over earth.
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Post by JACK-2 on Oct 21, 2008 17:41:49 GMT -5
Well I'm sorry but win dealing with me I'm going 2 need sum feats. U could have all the powers in the world but if they R as weak as can B then I really don't think U will B able 2 stand against sum 1 with the power 2 lift boulders and dodge bullets. And I wish people at KMC did use feats instead of who they liked more, that's Y we have Cloud beating Gouki over there. But, the mechanics of their abilities are kinda like feats as well TBH. It's not like there effects are weaker because we do not know specifics. These abilities can still be said to be powerful. We just have to figure out how they would relate in battle. KMC is full of tards nowadays which is why I stop posting. You should forget about that place IMO. That's what I think people misunderstood about me, they thought I was sum huge SF fanboy, but I like KOF 2. I have almost every KOF game so win sum 1 makes a claim, disproving or proving is as E-Z as turning the game on and looking. And if U have a compilation game then it's really E-Z. U would B amazed at how much of the stuff posted in argument for KOF is wrong over at KMC. I really don't bother with that place anymore. I don't bother with KMC anymore either, that place is just boring. All they ever do is flame each other and lie over BS. Unfortunately that's how big forums are, since they get so much traffic. They have a large influx of tards and things can get so outta hand that they have to ban topics and pass so much rules [whether they are fair or not] just to keep the place in some order. I don't mess with big forums anymore, I rather stick with the small ones. Now I'm not saying that Gouki and Bison can beat Orochi B-cuz I do B-leave he was horribly jobbed but win people say Iori can choke out an SNK God so that means he can choke out Gouki I think it's BS. And U might think that's an exaggeration but Sado and Xeno have used that 4 thier basis on Y Iori can take out Gill, Oro, and Gouki. I'm not surprised with KMC, remember how Darkstalker characters were being hated on simply because they were so powerful and were Capcom characters? Back then gears was being an idiot and went do far as to agree with Burning Thought's bias arguments. But I remember their being a debate which explained why Orochi was hurt so bad. I think it was because he's specifically weak against their powers. I dunno, but Igniz is definitely the biggest jobber out their. Dude had a team of bosses with him and he had everyone's power and still lost to just 3 dudes. I couldn't C anything N that vid but since U went out of the way to find a vid I will take U'R word 4 it. Thanks I look for more proof.  I B-leave Urien has kenesis over his 3 elements just like Gill. And Urien's profile SFEC states that he is equal to Gill, they just have very different powers and as dumb as it sounds thier is a kenisis for controlling just metal: Magnetokenisis. But that's dumb still C-ing as how Urien controls earth 2. So I supose rather than have 3 different elements he has an intense lvl of control over earth. I was gonna say something like that, his control might also not be as good as Gills control of their respected elements. |
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Post by warmunger on Oct 24, 2008 15:42:45 GMT -5
Well I think that's a bit unfair B-Cuz if we just took powers with out feats 4 them, then there will B characters with no feats who will stomp on every 1. Like 12, he has the power 2 turn N 2 a better version of his foes. Does that mean he can beat any 1? B 4 we make an assumption like that wouldn't it B fair 2 no how well the powers work? I try not 2 either but there R sum people there who i no and 4 sum reason/excuse wont come here. That's Y win I do go, I mainly just talk 2 people. Boy, I'm glade those days R over. If U think about it, us sencible guys had them out numbered, we just got tired of the BS and left. There is almost no 1 there who was there win we were or at least they don't visit as often. Thanks I look for more proof. I was gonna say something like that, his control might also not be as good as Gills control of their respected elements.[/quote]That's what 1 thing I never got, did Urien beat Gill 2 become president? I'm n ot sure. Did that actually happen? |
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Post by JACK-2 on Oct 25, 2008 18:26:01 GMT -5
It's been a little while Well I think that's a bit unfair B-Cuz if we just took powers with out feats 4 them, then there will B characters with no feats who will stomp on every 1. Like 12, he has the power 2 turn N 2 a better version of his foes. Does that mean he can beat any 1? B 4 we make an assumption like that wouldn't it B fair 2 no how well the powers work? I see what your saying, but that sound like something fanboys would do in order for their favorite character too win. Feats give us info, but ultimately they do not sort out on their own. We need to speculate on how they can be used in different scenarios and their relevance. Over dependence on feats lead to Feat wars and leaves under developed characters out of debates too often. Spider man for instance has way more feats than Mistress level who is an abstract. If we use feat wars logic Spider man should win. I see what your saying about 12, but we gotta have some balance. As ong as their isn't any bias like in KMC we should do fine IMO. Besides abilities themselves are viable as feats, Magaki for instance can open worm holes and travel instantaneously. We don't have any numbers or much feats other than Shion being grabbed. Does that mean it should be discounted? As long as we are fair debates won't turn out bad. Infact, I think they would be better off. I try not 2 either but there R sum people there who i no and 4 sum reason/excuse wont come here. That's Y win I do go, I mainly just talk 2 people. Addiction maybe, I do wish more people I know frequented more often. Boy, I'm glade those days R over. If U think about it, us sencible guys had them out numbered, we just got tired of the BS and left. There is almost no 1 there who was there win we were or at least they don't visit as often. This place is awful, I wouldn't blame them if they stopped visiting forums completely. That's what 1 thing I never got, did Urien beat Gill 2 become president? I'm n ot sure. Did that actually happen? Gill is the Emperor while Urien is the President. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 2, 2008 7:59:06 GMT -5
Ouch Ashtar I'm hurt. I know I've been a bit busy and all, but you didn't have to say the place was awful.  I like to use feats, stats, and just general forum rules and character sense. I hate when people only use one of them, or neglect the rules, it makes arguing with them frustrating. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Nov 3, 2008 23:00:28 GMT -5
Ouch Ashtar I'm hurt. I know I've been a bit busy and all, but you didn't have to say the place was awful. I like to use feats, stats, and just general forum rules and character sense. I hate when people only use one of them, or neglect the rules, it makes arguing with them frustrating. Lol, I wasn't talking about this place, C-master. ;D |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 4, 2008 4:17:13 GMT -5
Ouch Ashtar I'm hurt. I know I've been a bit busy and all, but you didn't have to say the place was awful. I like to use feats, stats, and just general forum rules and character sense. I hate when people only use one of them, or neglect the rules, it makes arguing with them frustrating. Lol, I wasn't talking about this place, C-master. ;D I know, it looked like it at first, but you guys were talking about KMC. I need to invite some of the losers from over there. |
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Post by warmunger on Nov 14, 2008 16:38:14 GMT -5
I see what your saying, but that sound like something fanboys would do in order for their favorite character too win. Feats give us info, but ultimately they do not sort out on their own. We need to speculate on how they can be used in different scenarios and their relevance. Over dependence on feats lead to Feat wars and leaves under developed characters out of debates too often. Spider man for instance has way more feats than Mistress level who is an abstract. If we use feat wars logic Spider man should win. I see what your saying about 12, but we gotta have some balance. As ong as their isn't any bias like in KMC we should do fine IMO. Besides abilities themselves are viable as feats, Magaki for instance can open worm holes and travel instantaneously. We don't have any numbers or much feats other than Shion being grabbed. Does that mean it should be discounted? As long as we are fair debates won't turn out bad. Infact, I think they would be better off. I get what yur saying and i agree for the most part but i just thinks it's really silly 2 put character A who has no feats up against character B who has tons, feats r'nt the end all but they R the most important 2 me. It's unfair that character B has all these acomplishments but they don't count cuz character A has none but he beat such and such. LOL, it's funny we R having this discussion and a very similar 1 is going on at KMC. Addiction maybe, I do wish more people I know frequented more often. I feel that way 2. i saw u pwning gears earlier. MOV PMed me and told me he was back. The judge all over again. This place is awful, I wouldn't blame them if they stopped visiting forums completely. We all no that wont happen. As long as there's sox and Capcom haters KMC will always be populated. I mean, I no I'm a SF fan but those characters can't win a single fight. Against any 1. Gill can't even beat Iori. Gill is the Emperor while Urien is the President. So Urien never fought Gill and won? |
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Post by JACK-2 on Nov 15, 2008 0:06:47 GMT -5
I get what yur saying and i agree for the most part but i just thinks it's really silly 2 put character A who has no feats up against character B who has tons, feats r'nt the end all but they R the most important 2 me. It's unfair that character B has all these acomplishments but they don't count cuz character A has none but he beat such and such. Accomplishments alone don't win fights, though. My beef with feat wars is that they are too Hyper-Focused on that one aspect of fights [feats] and ignore or downplay others. What about the other aspects like: - Character History - In Character portryals - Statements - Averages - Circumstances - Consistency Those are all important for the overall versus. Feats just illustrate what a character has done in their career. They cannot tell us who will be superior overall in a fight. . .we need those other things I listed in combination. Over dependence on them leads to stupid feat wars. Take this example: Mistress Love is an abstract from marvel with No feats versus Spiderman who has butt loads more. . .Using Feat wars logic Spiderman should be able to beat her even if she is a Abstract who is written to be greater. LOL, it's funny we R having this discussion and a very similar 1 is going on at KMC. KMC discussions are crap, though. So Urien never fought Gill and won? I forget to be honest, I think he rose in ranks in general. Urien is very intelligent, though. I think his technical intelligence surpasses Gill. |
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Post by warmunger on Nov 15, 2008 16:42:05 GMT -5
Accomplishments alone don't win fights, though. My beef with feat wars is that they are too Hyper-Focused on that one aspect of fights [feats] and ignore or downplay others. What about the other aspects like: - Character History - In Character portryals - Statements - Averages - Circumstances - Consistency. Yeah you make a good point which I always have thought about, but I'm not talking about yur average feat. What I mean by "feats" is OUTRAGEOUS showings. A showing that makes said character VERY unhuman. Gouki 4 X-ample can blow an island up in 1 punch, U have to have sum VERY GOOD... -Character History - In Character portryals - Statements - Averages - Circumstances - Consistency. 2 top that and that's just 1 showing of his power and U wood need all that other stuff just 2 match that 1 feat. Or like Ryu lifting that gigantic boulder, that's X-treme. By feats I mean that if the characters opponent can't replicate that then that character is OBVIOUSLY weaker in that reguard. Not simple feats like jobbing a cast or, beating up a lot a people, or b-ing able to do 1000 sit ups N 30 mins, I mean feats that no regular man can ever dream of doing, like dodging bullets. Seeing the bullet come at U and move JUST the body part that is about to be hit like Ryu did N the movie. Those are all important for the overall versus. Feats just illustrate what a character has done in their career. They cannot tell us who will be superior overall in a fight. . .we need those other things I listed in combination. Over dependence on them leads to stupid feat wars. Take this example: Mistress Love is an abstract from marvel with No feats versus Spiderman who has butt loads more. . .Using Feat wars logic Spiderman should be able to beat her even if she is a Abstract who is written to be greater. Yeah but that's not what I mean at all and I get what yur saying. I only take feats N 2 acount for Spiderman if they R feats that put him on abstract lvl. Screw all the little feats that Spidey has. I only bring N feats that I no the opponent can never do cuz he/she R 2 weak 2 do so. That's what I do with feats. Like Ryu VS Morrigan, Ryu has far more feats than Morrigan but given who and what Morrigan is and noing what powers she has, we know Ryu's feats wont help him much even tho she has none. But win it's Ryu fighting Terry Bogard his feats show that he is MUCH stronger and faster than Terry. Looking at Terry, he seems like a Regular human win compared 2 Ryu. I would not bring N every feat that Ryu has ever done cuz Terry has none. Just the 1s that would really screw Terry over, big time. KMC discussions are crap, though. Well they R'nt really discussions, more like arguments and flamming. they bring my name up all the time even tho i don't have an opinion. I forget to be honest, I think he rose in ranks in general. Urien is very intelligent, though. I think his technical intelligence surpasses Gill. O |
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Post by JACK-2 on Nov 18, 2008 13:52:46 GMT -5
Yeah you make a good point which I always have thought about, but I'm not talking about yur average feat. What I mean by "feats" is OUTRAGEOUS showings. A showing that makes said character VERY unhuman. Gouki 4 X-ample can blow an island up in 1 punch, U have to have sum VERY GOOD... Yeah, but what I stated is still valid, though. Unless the character is literally unbeatable. There are ways to beat characters with ridiculous feats, sometimes your character could even trick them through negotiations. Versus can be more than just bouts, it's a chance to see what could happen if two characters from complete different universe interact. I'm saying there's more things happening then fighting, but forums like KMC do not even cover that. Also, feats can be inconsistent as hell, they aren't infalliable. They have to be feasible to actually work in debates. Most people forget all this which is why you have Feat wars which lead nowhere. 2 top that and that's just 1 showing of his power and U wood need all that other stuff just 2 match that 1 feat. Or like Ryu lifting that gigantic boulder, that's X-treme. By feats I mean that if the characters opponent can't replicate that then that character is OBVIOUSLY weaker in that reguard. Not simple feats like jobbing a cast or, beating up a lot a people, or b-ing able to do 1000 sit ups N 30 mins, I mean feats that no regular man can ever dream of doing, like dodging bullets. Seeing the bullet come at U and move JUST the body part that is about to be hit like Ryu did N the movie.. I agree that it makes the individual have an advantage in certain regards, but my beef is people who claim that one feat regardless of what it is wins entire matches. . .That's Fanboyish. As for Ryu dodging bullets, that's great but what I said still applies. Because we cannot assume that Ryu can dodge all bullets no matter what the situation is. What if dudes have Ak's with banana clips? or They have excellent marksmanship? or Have a special gun? Sure he can dodge bullet, but there maybe instances where he cannot. . .Which is why I like to analyze stuff from angles to get a broader view of what's going on. . .KMC and bigger forums forget that which is why their debates are so monotonous. Yeah but that's not what I mean at all and I get what yur saying. I only take feats N 2 acount for Spiderman if they R feats that put him on abstract lvl. Screw all the little feats that Spidey has. I only bring N feats that I no the opponent can never do cuz he/she R 2 weak 2 do so. That's what I do with feats. Like Ryu VS Morrigan, Ryu has far more feats than Morrigan but given who and what Morrigan is and noing what powers she has, we know Ryu's feats wont help him much even tho she has none. But win it's Ryu fighting Terry Bogard his feats show that he is MUCH stronger and faster than Terry. Looking at Terry, he seems like a Regular human win compared 2 Ryu. I would not bring N every feat that Ryu has ever done cuz Terry has none. Just the 1s that would really screw Terry over, big time. I agree for the most part, but Terry isn't a regular human, though. What I'm saying is what you said before. Ryu's feats make him more powerful in certain regards not overall. Dudes at big forums treat feats like they are the only factor that resolves fights, which is my beef. Feats are very important, but the reasoning that allows us to use them in fights are just as important. . .I wish people remembered that. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
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Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Nov 23, 2008 9:17:30 GMT -5
I get what yur saying and i agree for the most part but i just thinks it's really silly 2 put character A who has no feats up against character B who has tons, feats r'nt the end all but they R the most important 2 me. It's unfair that character B has all these acomplishments but they don't count cuz character A has none but he beat such and such. Accomplishments alone don't win fights, though. My beef with feat wars is that they are too Hyper-Focused on that one aspect of fights [feats] and ignore or downplay others. What about the other aspects like: - Character History - In Character portryals - Statements - Averages - Circumstances - Consistency Those are all important for the overall versus. Feats just illustrate what a character has done in their career. They cannot tell us who will be superior overall in a fight. . .we need those other things I listed in combination. Over dependence on them leads to stupid feat wars. Take this example: Mistress Love is an abstract from marvel with No feats versus Spiderman who has butt loads more. . .Using Feat wars logic Spiderman should be able to beat her even if she is a Abstract who is written to be greater. KMC discussions are crap, though. So Urien never fought Gill and won? I forget to be honest, I think he rose in ranks in general. Urien is very intelligent, though. I think his technical intelligence surpasses Gill. I believe feat wars are pointless and irritating. I use a combination of anything canon along with their stats and showings. Let's say a characters stats have been the same for years and then the character jumps up with no explanation suddenly. Fanboys will still use the feats, I notice most hate the stats because they are far more inconsistent. Generally featwars are also useless because they don't take in mind the forum rules and environment and unless they are straight up power displays, feats, such as one character ko'ing another when they are fighting someone else, are not necessary. You think Urien is more tactical than Gill? |
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I like to use feats, stats, and just general forum rules and character sense. I hate when people only use one of them, or neglect the rules, it makes arguing with them frustrating.