Sega vs. Nintendo

[JACK-2]

Off-Topic: PS2, Dreamcast, GBA, and SNES are the greatest systems to me in that order.

On Topic: It's hard to say, I mean they both had quality games back then. Genesis ports tend to be better than SNES and it had much better hardware, but SNES had more support and had more exclusive titles. I feel SNES is slightly superior, but it's mostly because Sega is known for making bad descions.

[Sinistrous]

May 26, 2008 8:19:19 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I missed this. Read the whole thing before you post, I know many people hurry up and start multiquoting to "rip someone a new one" and miss the entire point. No need to do that here, because I'm sure we agree on some basic concepts but there is an error in translation somewhere.

Quick clarification. If I was out to rip anyone a new one, I wouldn't even spend time here because of the low population. Don't confuse my antics for "trying to be the bigger man" - I'm here for discussion, not for some asinine ego-boosting.

Don't try to change the topic; I called you out on your statement that the Playstation was the greatest game system ever. I barely even commented on your "kids hobby to pop culture" thing other than noting that it did nothing for quality control.

So can we go back to where that was my main point, because I'm pretty sure those if you can point that out I'd be very impressed because it isn't what I meant in the first place.

Again, this conversation is not about your main point (yes, I read your edit), but your comment on the Playstation's status as a great console. I'll cover that greatness in a second so that we're on the same page, but I will tell you this now, any relation it has to sales is incidental. A turd can sell as well as an apple with the right marketing.

Remember, this is what I quoted:

only second to the classic Playstation, which is what made gaming into the popular culture instead of just a kids hobby.

If I was going after your main point in the first place, I would have quoted the whole thing, so your whole shtick about "that wasn't my point" is irrelevant. And yes, I realize I should have quoted the whole sentence there to be 100% sure that you knew we were discussing greatness, but I felt the effect was greater at the time without it, plus bolding doesn't work within quotes on a proboards forum.

Nope, but the opinion of someone who hasn't had something themselves and went off the opinion of some magazine or a third party article isn't a very strong one.

Except I don't go off their opinion and I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe if we were having this discussion five years ago when I gave a shit about the gaming industry media, you'd be a little closer. Despite what you might think, I have never stated that a game is good or bad if I hadn't played it yet; merely speculated.

-----

Let me clarify some things before you start trying to compliment me again.

This conversation is about greatness. Greatness does not equal "great job, sport!" Greatness refers to something that is transcendent, something that is beyond good and various qualifiers of good like "really good" or "not good".

The Playstation has three games that reach this level of transcendence: Castlevania SOTN, Metal Gear Solid and Suikoden II. SOTN works as a great in its mastery of the adventure/platforming genre through it's brilliant level design (in particular, the inverted castle) and its inherent mastery of mechanics. Metal Gear Solid works on both a cinematic level and as a game expertly, as opposed to a game like FF VII, which is fine as a game but fails cinematically. Suikoden II is a game that truly embodies the term "epic": not just in the plot, but in the gameplay: you actually play out these epic parts in an epic form (see the brilliant "one-two-three-aaand-finisher" battle with Luca Blight) as opposed to just watching them or simply going at it with an overpowered boss. Because these games have a much higher conceptual aim than the masses and execute them much better as well, they achieve a timelessness you don't see in games that are just good. These three games are, because of this, beyond just good.

Then you have the good games, which means they're better than average but not strong enough to reach the timelessness found in the greats. Some of them have a conceptual aim like what can be seen in the greats, but they tend to fail in some aspect of the execution or maybe the concept just isn't that good in the first place. Games like Final Fantasy VII and the original Silent Hill fit in here.

Finally, you have the average games (lovingly dubbed "mediocre" by yours truly). These games work just fine but, as the name implies, they don't really do much better than the rest of the masses. Some of these are influential and switch things up a bit, like Crash, but ultimately don't stand out outside of this historical importance.

What makes a system great is having a large amount of these great games; something that the SNES achieved (Super Metroid, A Link to the Past, Out of this World, Chrono Trigger... the list goes on) while the Playstation only had that already covered handful at most.



P.S. I missed this:

As for taking everything *you* say as fact? Tell me you're joking. These are words on a screen so it's difficult to tell, but I hope you are.

lol

C'mon man, you think it's easy being this serious?

[JACK-2]

May 16, 2008 21:33:07 GMT -5 Sinistrous said:

That doesn't change the fact that the PSX was barely above average with their game library. Yeah, the thing had some good ones, but compared to the SNES or Genesis, it comes up a bit short.

Their close IMO, but I'd have to agree with SNES having a better libary [Though, it's slightly better]. But, I disagree with Genesis having a better libary.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

May 31, 2008 17:45:50 GMT -5 Sinistrous said:

May 26, 2008 8:19:19 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I missed this. Read the whole thing before you post, I know many people hurry up and start multiquoting to "rip someone a new one" and miss the entire point. No need to do that here, because I'm sure we agree on some basic concepts but there is an error in translation somewhere.

Quick clarification. If I was out to rip anyone a new one, I wouldn't even spend time here because of the low population. Don't confuse my antics for "trying to be the bigger man" - I'm here for discussion, not for some asinine ego-boosting.



Again, this conversation is not about your main point (yes, I read your edit), but your comment on the Playstation's status as a great console. I'll cover that greatness in a second so that we're on the same page, but I will tell you this now, any relation it has to sales is incidental. A turd can sell as well as an apple with the right marketing.

Remember, this is what I quoted:



If I was going after your main point in the first place, I would have quoted the whole thing, so your whole shtick about "that wasn't my point" is irrelevant. And yes, I realize I should have quoted the whole sentence there to be 100% sure that you knew we were discussing greatness, but I felt the effect was greater at the time without it, plus bolding doesn't work within quotes on a proboards forum.




Except I don't go off their opinion and I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe if we were having this discussion five years ago when I gave a shit about the gaming industry media, you'd be a little closer. Despite what you might think, I have never stated that a game is good or bad if I hadn't played it yet; merely speculated.

-----

Let me clarify some things before you start trying to compliment me again.

This conversation is about greatness. Greatness does not equal "great job, sport!" Greatness refers to something that is transcendent, something that is beyond good and various qualifiers of good like "really good" or "not good".

The Playstation has three games that reach this level of transcendence: Castlevania SOTN, Metal Gear Solid and Suikoden II. SOTN works as a great in its mastery of the adventure/platforming genre through it's brilliant level design (in particular, the inverted castle) and its inherent mastery of mechanics. Metal Gear Solid works on both a cinematic level and as a game expertly, as opposed to a game like FF VII, which is fine as a game but fails cinematically. Suikoden II is a game that truly embodies the term "epic": not just in the plot, but in the gameplay: you actually play out these epic parts in an epic form (see the brilliant "one-two-three-aaand-finisher" battle with Luca Blight) as opposed to just watching them or simply going at it with an overpowered boss. Because these games have a much higher conceptual aim than the masses and execute them much better as well, they achieve a timelessness you don't see in games that are just good. These three games are, because of this, beyond just good.

Then you have the good games, which means they're better than average but not strong enough to reach the timelessness found in the greats. Some of them have a conceptual aim like what can be seen in the greats, but they tend to fail in some aspect of the execution or maybe the concept just isn't that good in the first place. Games like Final Fantasy VII and the original Silent Hill fit in here.

Finally, you have the average games (lovingly dubbed "mediocre" by yours truly). These games work just fine but, as the name implies, they don't really do much better than the rest of the masses. Some of these are influential and switch things up a bit, like Crash, but ultimately don't stand out outside of this historical importance.

What makes a system great is having a large amount of these great games; something that the SNES achieved (Super Metroid, A Link to the Past, Out of this World, Chrono Trigger... the list goes on) while the Playstation only had that already covered handful at most.



P.S. I missed this:

As for taking everything *you* say as fact? Tell me you're joking. These are words on a screen so it's difficult to tell, but I hope you are.

lol

C'mon man, you think it's easy being this serious?

Not about to rehash this entire post as I have many others and the main points have been covered. The bottom line is that the point I made was based on the impact of the industry. But off topic it doesn't mean the Playstation isn't great because you don't like the majority of the games on there (which you haven't played). The ones you listed as Transcendent, are only good games to me. Many games were transcendent in gameplay, which is what matters most, Twisted Metal 2 was definitely one of them. Even the ones on the SNES you listed appealed to the masses but were simply good games to me, they were popular and appealed to the masses, but as you said that doesn't matter here. Because if we were going on about masses PS definitely wins that.
And while marketing helps it isn't the end all and be all, there were some horrible games and systems that were well marketed and still blew. The influence of the PS one was reached by it's huge library of games, and that is pretty much the truth.

Good games and bad games make a good discussion but you and I know it will go back and forth being subjective as it is.

[Sinistrous]

May 31, 2008 18:00:23 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

May 16, 2008 21:33:07 GMT -5 Sinistrous said:

That doesn't change the fact that the PSX was barely above average with their game library. Yeah, the thing had some good ones, but compared to the SNES or Genesis, it comes up a bit short.

Their close IMO, but I'd have to agree with SNES having a better libary [Though, it's slightly better]. But, I disagree with Genesis having a better libary.

Fair enough. I'll admit that it's been ages since I played a Genesis game so I might just be speaking out of nostalgia. I should probably set some SEGA stuff aside for the next bit of time off.

May 31, 2008 23:39:57 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Not about to rehash this entire post as I have many others and the main points have been covered. The bottom line is that the point I made was based on the impact of the industry. But off topic it doesn't mean the Playstation isn't great because you don't like the majority of the games on there (which you haven't played). The ones you listed as Transcendent, are only good games to me. Many games were transcendent in gameplay, which is what matters most, Twisted Metal 2 was definitely one of them. Even the ones on the SNES you listed appealed to the masses but were simply good games to me, they were popular and appealed to the masses, but as you said that doesn't matter here. Because if we were going on about masses PS definitely wins that.
And while marketing helps it isn't the end all and be all, there were some horrible games and systems that were well marketed and still blew. The influence of the PS one was reached by it's huge library of games, and that is pretty much the truth.

Good games and bad games make a good discussion but you and I know it will go back and forth being subjective as it is.

Look, I already know this is off-topic, you don't need to reminding me. I doubt you've played the majority of the games on the system either though, so I don't see why you feel the need to keep bringing that up time and time again. Remember that you feel that the Playstation is great while I think it's not great. The only difference between our beliefs is a positive and negative value; neither of us are any more qualified to make an assessment than the other in these terms. So stop bringing it up already.

Also, you actually think Twisted Metal is transcendent? How? It's an entirely derivative series with little ambition or depth and isn't much more than a quick time-kill. That's fine and all, but doesn't make it great. At the very least, greatness should be something that's more selective than just someone who just happens to do something slightly better than the rest of the crowd (that's what we just call "good").

This is starting to become something of a lost cause on my end, so just for the hell of it, why don't you tell me what makes Twisted Metal 2 stand out so much for you? And don't be lazy and just tell me "it's fun" or some alteration of that, put some real effort into it. This is a forum and it should be used for actual discussion; I can't really do much with "fun" on this end.

Also, why don't you tell me why those three games I listed are just good games and not great ones like Twisted Metal 2? I'm genuinely curious too, not just egging you on as per usual.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I keep bringing it up because you kept saying I meant something I originally didn't. First you were saying I meant it was the best system of all time, then you were saying I meant it was a great system. I do think it's great, but my only point was the impact it had on the media. I'm sure I've played quite a few more games than you, and completed more of them, on the Playstation especially. It isn't about trying to put one person down, but it just brings up a point. I know you and David would hate a game like Battletoads, but that game is extremely hard and frustrating and takes much patience and skill to beat. That doesn't make it a bad game. My *point* is saying "only 3 games are great on a system that has thousands, and only a small percentage good" is a comment that is unfairly and poorly formed if you haven't played a very good portion of them. That's no different in saying this band has only had a handful of good songs, or this team has only had a handful of good games, when I've only listened to or watched a small portion of them. I never said SNES sucked (because it doesn't), nor did I say PS1 sucked (because it doesn't). I just said they were highly influential systems. So I'm not subject to the criticism that you are.

Now, I'm going to make a thread about "what makes a good game", so this one can be about Sega vs. Nintendo, and we won't keep driving everyone insane. This is the next Spiderman vs. Wolverine

Edit: Here is the link.

thacmaster.proboards50.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=compdiscussion&thread=816

[Dja Majista]

What a snob. "Oh yeah, I like battletoads, but that's only cause I'm just so damn good. You guys would hate it because it just takes so much skill. Which you don't have."
And I thought you said the PS1 was the best system for it's time.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 2, 2008 10:05:16 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

What a snob. "Oh yeah, I like battletoads, but that's only cause I'm just so damn good. You guys would hate it because it just takes so much skill. Which you don't have."
And I thought you said the PS1 was the best system for it's time.

I just know you wouldn't have the patience for it, and you didn't like it before. Read this page over again, I was originally talking about the influence of the media.

[Dja Majista]

yeah yeah, that's what they all say. At least admit you're recalling that statement, you know, when you said the SNES was one of the greatest systems of all time, and then you said second only to the classic playstation. It's not right to accuse people of strawmans they didn't commit.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I can bring it and you can prove me wrong. It matters not, but I've already played it with you before.

Jun 2, 2008 15:17:07 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

yeah yeah, that's what they all say. At least admit you're recalling that statement, you know, when you said the SNES was one of the greatest systems of all time, and then you said second only to the classic playstation. It's not right to accuse people of strawmans they didn't commit.

You must not have been paying attention, I stated several times that I said I was talking about impact on the media, and then I said on the side I thought the system was great. You're right, it really isn't right to accuse people of strawmans they didn't commit. That's known as slothful induction, considering, you know, I didn't call back anything. I only clarified it. And I still think the SNES was second to the PS1 in terms of impact to the media. I even went on to say that in terms of quality the PS2 is better, because it's the same thing upgraded. So why would the PS1 be better in that sense? Furthermore, earlier in the thread I clearly said the Genesis is better than the SNES in my opinion. So why would I list the SNES as my second favorite?

Wow, see how that works? It's amazing the powers of reading comprehension huh?

I don't know how many times I have to say the same thing before it's understood. I made that recent edit at the top of the page to even clarify that. I believe you knew full well what I was on about, too.

I feel like I'm at KMC again.

[Dja Majista]

yes you have enlightened me, thank you so much.
No really, I don't think the term clarify should be used when your changing what you said in the first place. It's not a bad thing to change your mind. Just say you are.

You must not have been paying attention

Oh I heard you every time you said that wasn't your point. But I'm just not convinced. I mean you said the playstation was number 1 quite explicitly.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 3, 2008 12:03:17 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

yes you have enlightened me, thank you so much.

You're very welcome. See that? I can reply to selective parts too. And ignore what I don't want to see.

Oh I heard you every time you said that wasn't your point. But I'm just not convinced. I mean you said the playstation was number 1 quite explicitly.

It sure isn't a bad thing, but why would I change my mind if I thought something was the best? Why do I have to convince you about what I do or don't like, since I know that better than anyone? My point my have been vague, but I clarified it anyways so it shouldn't matter. I could use many similar situations but it wouldn't matter. Since you know what systems I think are the best, what are they? In what order?

Especially when I just reinstated what I said? It's nothing wrong with being wrong, or less wrong than that: misinterpreting, I did not accuse Joe of a strawman, I just meant he misinterpreted. I simply believe you are trying to bring up now because of the statement I made about Battletoads. You suddenly jumped out of the shadows to "show me". That's just what it looks like.

Magic Attack talked to me about this thread and he saw what I meant, he even agreed with me that "what system is truly the greatest" is too subjective anyways, particularly on this thread.

Bottom line is: Saying I typed something poorly or loosely is one thing, but saying I'm trying to change my mind or lie about what I like the most is another, and it's a silly argument too.

[Dja Majista]

Jun 3, 2008 12:15:02 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Jun 3, 2008 12:03:17 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

yes you have enlightened me, thank you so much.

You're very welcome. See that? I can reply to selective parts too. And ignore what I don't want to see.

My dog has selective hearing too.

Oh I heard you every time you said that wasn't your point. But I'm just not convinced. I mean you said the playstation was number 1 quite explicitly.

It sure isn't a bad thing, but why would I change my mind if I thought something was the best?
Why do I have to convince you about what I do or don't like, since I know that better than anyone? My point my have been vague, but I clarified it anyways so it shouldn't matter. I could use many similar situations but it wouldn't matter. Since you know what systems I think are the best, what are they? In what order?

No you totally thought the Playstation was the best system ever. Then you realized the Playstation 2 was nothing but an improvement on the playstation, so that couldn't have been true. Then you realized that Sinistrious was owning you and you reverted your main point to say that it just had the most impact on the public and whatnot. Search your feelings you know it to be true.

Why do I have to convince you about what I do or don't like, since I know that better than anyone?

I don't know. But I'm still not convinced.

Especially when I just reinstated what I said? It's nothing wrong with being wrong, or less wrong than that: misinterpreting, I did not accuse Joe of a strawman, I just meant he misinterpreted.

Or, you know, you miscommunicated.

Magic Attack talked to me about this thread and he saw what I meant, he even agreed with me that "what system is truly the greatest" is too subjective anyways, particularly on this thread.

That's nice

I simply believe you are trying to bring up now because of the statement I made about Battletoads. You suddenly jumped out of the shadows to "show me". That's just what it looks like.

Nah, not really. That was just an aside, snide remark I had to throw in.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

All that money you spent on those logic classes and you still can't connect decent trains of thought, all of the terms you use don't really mean anything because anybody who can see through them see that you're saying nothing, but using jargon.

Jun 3, 2008 14:05:20 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 12:15:02 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

My dog has selective hearing too.

And I bet *she* can connect trains of thought better than you.

Jun 3, 2008 14:05:20 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 12:15:02 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

No you totally thought the Playstation was the best system ever. Then you realized the Playstation 2 was nothing but an improvement on the playstation, so that couldn't have been true. Then you realized that Sinistrious was owning you and you reverted your main point to say that it just had the most impact on the public and whatnot. Search your feelings you know it to be true.

I realized something about the systems I own? Sorry I don't have to think hard about the hardware of two systems I own. After I said classic playstation I said, "Which made games something besides a kids hobby." Which was a statement about the impact of the media.

I even explained that in the very next post about the matter, do I need to screenshot the page? I edited that top post much later for clarification.

Being owned would be more like you on my blog, and then you ran and pm'ed your buddy to come help you, alpha male charisma hah. Everyone who read that blog laughed up and down at you.

But owning me? No not really, I don't see how I can be owned on something subjective that I have more experience with, just like I have more experience in many things than you, and it bothers you so. That's why you try so hard to copy me.

So if I thought the SNES was the next best system, after I said I clearly liked the Genesis more, how does that add up? Oh wait it doesn't.

Jun 3, 2008 14:05:20 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 12:15:02 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I don't know. But I'm still not convinced.

I guess I should just give up because I can't convince someone who's obviously bitter.

Jun 3, 2008 14:05:20 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 12:15:02 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Or, you know, you miscommunicated.

Either way it isn't the same as accusing someone of a strawman when I stated my pretense (implier) in the first place. For a person who says a lot of debating terms and fallacies, you sure commit a hell of a lot of them. You are telling me what I think when I said what I meant in the first place.

Jun 3, 2008 14:05:20 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 12:15:02 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

That's nice

I'm glad you learn your lesson.

Jun 3, 2008 14:05:20 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 12:15:02 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Nah, not really. That was just an aside, snide remark I had to throw in.

Because you were bitter about a comment I made about Battletoads, so you came in and jumped on someone's balls. Nothing I haven't seen at KMC really.

[Dja Majista]

Jun 3, 2008 19:41:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

All that money you spent on those logic classes and you still can't connect decent trains of thought, all of the terms you use don't really mean anything because anybody who can see through them see that you're saying nothing, but using jargon.

All that money huh? Yeah Mercer was pretty friggin expensive. Unfortunately for you, I aced that class with my hands tied. And I didn't really want to knock you but since your knocking me, I figure I'd be kind of a turd to try and take the higher path so what the heck? Let's see how good you are at seeing through my jargon.

I did not accuse Joe of a strawman, I just meant he misinterpreted.

A straw man fallacy is misinterpretation.
Thank you for playing.

And I bet *she* can connect trains of thought better than you.

Ooooh snap!

I realized something about the systems I own? Sorry I don't have to think hard about the hardware of two systems I own. After I said classic playstation I said, "Which made games something besides a kids hobby." Which was a statement about the impact of the media.

I even explained that in the very next post about the matter, do I need to screenshot the page? I edited that top post much later for clarification.

If you still think I haven't read it, after all I've said, go ahead, knock yourself out.

I don't know why. But everytime we have a flamefest, I have to sift through your fantasies. So let's just get these out of the way...

Being owned would be more like you on my blog, and then you ran and pm'ed your buddy to come help you, alpha male charisma hah. Everyone who read that blog laughed up and down at you.

But owning me? No not really, I don't see how I can be owned on something subjective that I have more experience with, just like I have more experience in many things than you, and it bothers you so. That's why you try so hard to copy me.

These are both adorable and irrelevant. I find it interesting that you somehow managed to get everyone's opinion who read that blog, as much as people posted. I don't mind if people laugh at me. Isn't that kind of petty though? To evaluate an argument based on how many people laugh at you? How about we just not listen to people who were killed for their beliefs, like Socrates. Screw them.

So if I thought the SNES was the next best system, after I said I clearly liked the Genesis more, how does that add up? Oh wait it doesn't.

Or maybe, since you said both, you know, maybe you miscommunicated, and that's why it doesn't add up.

I guess I should just give up because I can't convince someone who's obviously bitter.

Obviously.

You are telling me what I think when I said what I meant in the first place.

Welcome to my world. Don't you just love it?
Watch this...
...
...

Because you were bitter about a comment I made about Battletoads, so you came in and jumped on someone's balls. Nothing I haven't seen at KMC really.

Boom! Eat your heart out. And to think you do stuff like this all the time.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 3, 2008 21:26:19 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 19:41:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

All that money huh? Yeah Mercer was pretty friggin expensive. Unfortunately for you, I aced that class with my hands tied. And I didn't really want to knock you but since your knocking me, I figure I'd be kind of a turd to try and take the higher path so what the heck? Let's see how good you are at seeing through my jargon.

Or should I say all the money your parents paid, but nevertheless I aced the class easily too, doesn't really matter when you can't connect trains of thought and use jargon to cover superficial arguments.

Jun 3, 2008 21:26:19 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 19:41:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

A straw man fallacy is misinterpretation.
Thank you for playing.

Not necessarily, it is often used as an exaggeration of ones point to successfully counter it. Hence "strawman" or "pulling straws". Basically you are purposefully misinterpreting or exaggerating a point to counter it.
No need to try to do this, being a smart ass in particular, I'm better at it than you and have been doing it longer.

Jun 3, 2008 21:26:19 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 19:41:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Ooooh snap!

Pointless.

Jun 3, 2008 21:26:19 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 19:41:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

If you still think I haven't read it, after all I've said, go ahead, knock yourself out.

So you're either slow at interpreting or doing it on purpose. Because I'm pretty sure you said I changed it much later after I realized blah blah blah, but in reality I said it very early on.

Jun 3, 2008 21:26:19 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 19:41:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

I don't know why. But everytime we have a flamefest, I have to sift through your fantasies. So let's just get these out of the way...

Or truths rather, very obvious ones. But I seem to have to sift through your contradictions.

For example that first flamefest when you were all upset and swearing all down the screen due to the fact that you take things too seriously (as pointed out here), you told me you didn't like when I "said what you meant" and to ask me to try as hard as I could to stop, or to say nothing of your "low self esteem". I don't, but you then come here and "tell me what I'm thinking". Just amazing isn't it.

Jun 3, 2008 21:26:19 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 19:41:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

These are both adorable and irrelevant. I find it interesting that you somehow managed to get everyone's opinion who read that blog, as much as people posted. I don't mind if people laugh at me. Isn't that kind of petty though? To evaluate an argument based on how many people laugh at you? How about we just not listen to people who were killed for their beliefs, like Socrates. Screw them.

Ok, so why bring up who owned somebody if it's irrelevant. People just told me the guy on the thread didn't know what they were talking about, and it's pretty obvious someone called someone else in...

Jun 3, 2008 21:26:19 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 19:41:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Or maybe, since you said both, you know, maybe you miscommunicated, and that's why it doesn't add up.

Not really since they both imply the same thing, which isn't the same thing as me trying to lie or cover it up, as you stated I was. So like I said,

"It's one thing to say that I loosely wrote something, but another to say I lied or tried to decieve someone."

Amazing how you really just wasted that quote on nothing.

Jun 3, 2008 21:26:19 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 19:41:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Obviously.

Jun 3, 2008 21:26:19 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Jun 3, 2008 19:41:45 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Welcome to my world. Don't you just love it?
Watch this...
...
...
Boom! Eat your heart out. And to think you do stuff like this all the time.

Ownage yes, but ballswing, no not really, isn't my thing. I'd actually rather not go through this step as it's really silly in the long run, but as long as we're both laughing, hey...

[Dja Majista]

Jun 3, 2008 21:47:28 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

Or should I say all the money your parents paid, but nevertheless I aced the class easily too, doesn't really matter when you can't connect trains of thought and use jargon to cover superficial arguments.

c'mon, enough with the jabber Deborah, give me some evidence for your claim. Show me the jargon, show me superficial arguments, and show me this mass of contradictions your having to sift through. Also, I find it fascinating that you feel a need to bring up the old days. It's almost as if you can't own anybody now, so you have to go back and remember how you "owned" someone then, as if it would help your current situation. Fascinating. ;D

Not necessarily, it is often used as an exaggeration of ones point to successfully counter it. Hence "strawman" or "pulling straws". Basically you are purposefully misinterpreting or exaggerating a point to counter it.
No need to try to do this, being a smart ass in particular, I'm better at it than you and have been doing it longer.


Pointless.

So you're either slow at interpreting or doing it on purpose. Because I'm pretty sure you said I changed it much later after I realized blah blah blah, but in reality I said it very early on.

Or truths rather, very obvious ones. But I seem to have to sift through your contradictions.

For example that first flamefest when you were all upset and swearing all down the screen due to the fact that you take things too seriously (as pointed out here), you told me you didn't like when I "said what you meant" and to ask me to try as hard as I could to stop, or to say nothing of your "low self esteem". I don't, but you then come here and "tell me what I'm thinking". Just amazing isn't it.

Ok, so why bring up who owned somebody if it's irrelevant. People just told me the guy on the thread didn't know what they were talking about, and it's pretty obvious someone called someone else in...

Not really since they both imply the same thing, which isn't the same thing as me trying to lie or cover it up, as you stated I was. So like I said,

"It's one thing to say that I loosely wrote something, but another to say I lied or tried to decieve someone."

Amazing how you really just wasted that quote on nothing.

Ownage yes, but ballswing, no not really, isn't my thing. I'd actually rather not go through this step as it's really silly in the long run, but as long as we're both laughing, hey...

Ball swinging? You thought that's what I was talking about? No, the point is, you tell me what I think all the time. Thanks by the way, for bringing up that old discussion to illustrate my point (you know I have a memory like a shrunken Floppy disc. What charity, thank you! I didn't even have to get my hands dirty!). I must say though, now that the tables have been turned, I can see how much fun you've been having. And I would love to play longer but I'd feel bad, so I'm gonna break it to you. I've been screwing with you this whole time. I intended some truth in my argument (like the whole "you miscommunicated" thing), but overall, I was being facetious.

And for the straw man thing, it's not necessarily purposeful. A straw man can really be any misinterpretation that's used as a counter.

So you're either slow at interpreting or doing it on purpose. Because I'm pretty sure you said I changed it much later after I realized blah blah blah, but in reality I said it very early on.

Oh! I see now! You think that slow interpretation is a bad thing. Should I go faster? Should I skim? be less thorough? This whole argument thing isn't a race you know.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I'm not even going to bother reading all of it, I think we should set an example as it's going off topic. I like a little bashing as much as the next, but I don't want KMC #2, especially with a friend. (Which you all are.)

[Dja Majista]

Aww. You're so cute when you negotiate.

Alright Cordera, Mr. Take-the-higher-path, you won. Let me buy you a beer sometimes ok?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 4, 2008 8:27:54 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Aww. You're so cute when you negotiate.

Alright Cordera, Mr. Take-the-higher-path, you won. Let me buy you a beer sometimes ok?

Drinking is bad for you...

[Dja Majista]

So I'll just owe you without ever owing you.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jun 9, 2008 10:52:42 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

So I'll just owe you without ever owing you.

I guess that'll have to do.