Rap Music

[Yoshi]

So, who here likes to listen to that...noise?

What are your opinions about it?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 12, 2009 10:35:37 GMT -5 Yoshi said:

So, who here likes to listen to that...noise?

What are your opinions about it?

Current rap sucks compared to the old stuff, that's just how it is.

[Yoshi]

So, why do you think rap music sucks?

I already know my reasons for disliking that noise pollution, so what are yours?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 12, 2009 14:49:41 GMT -5 Yoshi said:

So, why do you think rap music sucks?

I already know my reasons for disliking that noise pollution, so what are yours?

I wouldn't go that far to say it's "noise pollution" or that ALL of it sucks, I do a bit of freestyling myself, though it is lighthearted. Rap is essentialy poetry and poetry has the potential to be beautiful... and ugly.

Current mainstream rap is generally bad, I wholeheartedly agree there, except for a few songs I don't pay most of it much mind. Classic rap is way better, and people who have a love for it but don't commercialze it (I.e sign a record deal) are good as well. It takes great lyrical skill to rap.

[Yoshi]

Well, all songs are poetry. In fact, all songs are just poems that are said/sung with music.

Well, I'm mainly talking about current rap music. Rap music from the past was somewhat tolerable and had meaning to it, but current rap music is just trash. Ugh, some of the songs are just stupid...

[JACK-2]

Jan 12, 2009 10:35:37 GMT -5 Yoshi said:

So, who here likes to listen to that...noise?

What are your opinions about it?

I grew up listening to rap and its pretty much my main genre. This is a difficult subject to tackle because the garbage you hear in the radio is pop not Rap. It's not a proper or fair representation of Rap music. Even rappers will agree, I think because of that Rap music gets an unfair view point. Also, the Rythme scheme in Rap is different from poetry. So, it can't really be called that rather to me it's a form of music that rely's on alternative non-conventional methods of delivery. I'm not an expert on music theory, but I don't think it's particularly fair to say Rap is noise.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 13, 2009 11:16:44 GMT -5 Yoshi said:

Well, all songs are poetry. In fact, all songs are just poems that are said/sung with music.

Well, I'm mainly talking about current rap music. Rap music from the past was somewhat tolerable and had meaning to it, but current rap music is just trash. Ugh, some of the songs are just stupid...

Yea, I see what you mean. I guess it's just best to specify. Kinda like if a few recent Yoshi games or something blew, we don't want to say that Yoshi sucks in general, it would be a bit confusing.

[Yoshi]

Yeah, I'll be more specific next time. It's just sickening to hear current rap music on the radio or on television because most of it is just nonsense. I admit that some people rap about their life, goals, family, and/or friends, but I'm sure that's present in only the classic rap music. I doubt you'll hear any of that in rap music nowadays. Of course, I'm not too sure since I don't listen to it on purpose.

Speaking of Yoshi games, he should have a new game on the Wii. That would make me very happy, but it has to be great and it better not be rushed.

Jan 13, 2009 11:50:03 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

I grew up listening to rap and its pretty much my main genre. This is a difficult subject to tackle because the garbage you hear in the radio is pop not Rap. It's not a proper or fair representation of Rap music. Even rappers will agree, I think because of that Rap music gets an unfair view point. Also, the Rythme scheme in Rap is different from poetry. So, it can't really be called that rather to me it's a form of music that rely's on alternative non-conventional methods of delivery. I'm not an expert on music theory, but I don't think it's particularly fair to say Rap is noise.

Well, it's all a matter of opinions and personal preferences. Since you grew up listening to rap music, then it's very likely that you're still loyal to the genre since you remember "the good ol' days" in which rap music actually had meaning to it. Since I didn't grow up listening to rap music, I only encounter it when flipping through radio stations, flipping through television channels, going to certain parties, hearing adjacent cars blasting it while I'm driving, etc. Also, I won't comment on the offensive/explicit lyrics in most rap songs (past and present) since that doesn't seem to matter anymore.

By the way, I'm pretty sure you guys would agree with me that most music videos for rap songs are garbage.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Honestly a lot of music has been so "popped" out that most of it loses it's meaning to business and advertising and selling out, most musicians (especially newer ones) have less creative control and have to do what the record companies want them to do.

Of course it does suck to have to be held to being a certain stereotype because of your skin color, or being not that race because you don't act that way, a double edged sword we have discussed many times.

[JACK-2]

Well, it's all a matter of opinions and personal preferences. Since you grew up listening to rap music, then it's very likely that you're still loyal to the genre since you remember "the good ol' days" in which rap music actually had meaning to it.

Not at all, me growing up on it just means I'm more familiar to it. I'm not really loyal to it because I don't really listen to rap on the radio at all. Furthermore, there are many other music genre's that I'm into and I didn't get into tem until much later. It's relative to me, music is music.

By the way, I'm pretty sure you guys would agree with me that most music videos for rap songs are garbage.

Well, yeah, but that applies to alot of things that are "main-stream". It's one of the reason why I'm purposley out of touch with the media. I still watch TV, but only the premium channels for the movies, I still listen to music that I like and I check out news on the internet. I've decided to boycott the prominent media because alot of what it puts out is garbage.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 15, 2009 8:35:43 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Well, it's all a matter of opinions and personal preferences. Since you grew up listening to rap music, then it's very likely that you're still loyal to the genre since you remember "the good ol' days" in which rap music actually had meaning to it.

Not at all, me growing up on it just means I'm more familiar to it. I'm not really loyal to it because I don't really listen to rap on the radio at all. Furthermore, there are many other music genre's that I'm into and I didn't get into tem until much later. It's relative to me, music is music.

By the way, I'm pretty sure you guys would agree with me that most music videos for rap songs are garbage.

Well, yeah, but that applies to alot of things that are "main-stream". It's one of the reason why I'm purposley out of touch with the media. I still watch TV, but only the premium channels for the movies, I still listen to music that I like and I check out news on the internet. I've decided to boycott the prominent media because alot of what it puts out is garbage.

I couldn't agree with you more, I avoid most of the current, though not all, because some is good.

Yoshi has a good point about Nostaliga though and how everyone has favor of music in the "good ol days" even our parents and grandparents would consider music in our days (late 80's and 90's) to be not as good. They were into Beatles, Elves, Smokey Robinson, Commodores, classic jacko, etc. I just like what I like, which can be anything.

I'm like that with most games nowadays too, except for Duke, SF, and probably Timesplitters I don't care for much current stuff, unfortunately. I play mostly classic stuff way back in the day where fun was more important than special effects. Movies probably haven't degenerated as fast because they take so long to make and cost a lot so you have to have quality or you lose fast.

[JACK-2]

Well, there's a difference between nostalgaia bias and things just not being as good. I think apologist often just lump the two concepts together in order to make it easy to refute. I don't want tthings to go back to how they were, even though I appreciate things back in the day. Rather I want the media of the now to surpass or at the very least come close to the quality and originality of things back then. With games I feel the industry has going in a slump for me, the atmosphere is boring, Movies are still good though originality is lacking in the mainstream, and for TV well alot of the channels I use to watch I just stop because they good anymore. I always say that there is no time like the present because our capabilities to do things have risen considerably. The problem is that the media lacks heart, so, even if their is an increase in capability. They lack the ingenuity to use it. It's like an idoit using a powerful machine, he wouldn't be able to make use of half of saidmachines performance capabilities compared to a genius. Infact, A genuis with an outdated machine with much less power could possibly do more with it than said moron with machine. That's how I view the media.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

It's not even about intelligence it's about making things and stepping out of the box without worrying about money. The only thing I do watch is Niptuck and that's about it. Yea nostalgia isn't always accurate, I can play games now and realize how awful some of them were, but I also remember the gems. The best games are the ones that have something original in them and aren't the same old thing.

[JACK-2]

Yeah, I find that being money driven ruins quality no matter what.

[Yoshi]

Well, that goes for everything, especially movies.

Rather than making movies with a great story and character development, movie directors would just spend large amounts of money on special effects and graphics in order to catch the audience's attention. Since some movie fans watch action movies "just for the fight scenes", the directors would make sure that they cater to that audience by having fight scenes throughout the movie rather than an interesting plot with unique characters. I've seen a few movies like this.

Since we're talking about rap music, I think we should talk about the television channels that play it. What do you guys think of MTV and BET?

[JACK-2]

BET you mean Black Exploitation Television?

I haven't watched it in years, back in i's heyday it was a solid channel. But, like MTV the pop crowd killed, but I don't think anything can get as bad a MTV has gotten.

[Dja Majista]

I don't dislike rap. Explicit themes and lyrics aside, I think it has an appealing sound. Couple that with a consistent rythm and mostly a mostly repetitive melody, I can see it has its place depending on circumstance. Though I would not treat it as an art. Music has two major primary purposes IMO: artistic expression and entertainment. Rap merely satisfies the latter. It's fun to listen to. That's all there is to it.

Speaking of rap, what does everyone here think of ergonomics or "black english." I'm interested, because I've been doing some readings on linguistics. Ergonomics has only just come up. Do you guys think of it as a legitimate dialect, a bastardization, something else?

[JACK-2]

It's definetly niot an art anymore, but back in it's heyday Hip Hop was all about Art.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Well essentially music goes into two categories, entertainment and religious purposes. Any form of an expression can be an art. Drawings, music, sex, writing, killing, whatever. The problem comes in when the business side compensates any type of reason to be artistic. Obviously Tupac and rappers like that were more into the art of it, and guys like 50 cent were more into the busines aspect, they were marketed JUST for the business in the industry. Business is what makes the physical world go round, and unfortunately there has been so much of a mixing with business and actual art, I'm not sure most even know the difference anymore. Stupid kids who like Souja Boy and think he's talented for example.

[Dja Majista]

I don't want to get into an argument about something like the definition of art or anything.

I am not saying rap today isn't art, nor that rap back then isn't art. Rap, at least now, is simply more focused on entertainment than artistic expression.

Well essentially music goes into two categories, entertainment and religious purposes

I still don't understand how you draw that dichotomy.

[JACK-2]

I agree, it's less about expression and more about $$$

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

What do you mean "still"? I just said it one time not too long ago.

That was more of how it was divided in musical studies. Though honestly you can say it is secular or non-secular, entertainment or non entertainment, or artistic and non artistic. Though really it is easier to isolate secular and non secular because entertainment and art are so subjective. Seriously when was music *not* made to be entertaining? Of course you could say certain themes intensify a situation on a show or something, or set the mood, but that is still entertainment.

Jan 17, 2009 11:31:26 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

I don't want to get into an argument about something like the definition of art or anything.

I am not saying rap today isn't art, nor that rap back then isn't art. Rap, at least now, is simply more focused on entertainment than artistic expression.

Well essentially music goes into two categories, entertainment and religious purposes

I still don't understand how you draw that dichotomy.

Man all mainstream music is focused on "entertainment" (making money, business, not whether or not it's actually good) nowadays. The music industry, like any other industry is all business. If nobody buys what you sell, despite how "good" or "artistic" it is, it won't be considered successful or good in general. People like Souja Boy or 50 cent are successful and their music isn't that good. It's just for the sake of business.

Anything out there nowadays that is mainstream has significantly changed from when it was. It was in the past that the king and queen or royalty in general would pay gifted musicians enough so they would never have to work. Nowadays it is a dog eat dog world, and there is a lot of competition out there, so it is marketed towards the people who will eat up anything (mostly stupid teenagers or people trying to fit into another stereotype (white kids trying to be "black" is a good example of this). So things have changed more. Much like gaming, more competition and impostors who rely on special effects, so people just throw things out there they know will sell without changing it. It's the same thing all around and rap definitely isn't the only one guilty of it, unfortunately. The problem is rap is a "love or hate" thing mostly and certain types of people just hate it, because of it's associations with crime and violence, but people didn't understand that with well written lyrics that there was a reason for the lifestyle, or that it wasn't a good life but it is the hardships of millions of people. Nowadays a lot of impostors are "thugs" just to sell. It's very easy to tell the difference for an experienced eye.

But what is art and what isn't is hard to say. Art in general especially publicized art is usually supposed to be entertaining or appealing to the senses in general, despite whatever it is. Maybe "Crank dat Souja Boy" was supposed to be art, lol. May we never know.

[JACK-2]

In Soulja Boys defense the "music" that he makes is extremely juveinielle. It's geared more for much younger audience and I don't think he ever claimed to be a deep rapper. I think people are quick to put him in the "What's wrong with rap audience".I've heard some of his other songs besides "Crank Dat" and they are pretty entertaining. As for fifty, well he's stated that his goal in the rap game is making lots of money and doesn't treally resoect the industry because he understands that it's a business. I don't blame him becuase if people are willing to eat up that garbage, why not give it up to them. He treats the game like what it is: A cash cow.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

That is true, SB's stuff can be catchy, but then you have people saying he's the greatest ever! Mostly juvenille fangirls though, I think we are eye-to-eye on the rest.

[Yoshi]

Well, someone needs to tell Soulja Boy not to "crank dat noise" anymore.

Musicians and singers should focus more on the quality of their songs rather than making songs just for the profits and entertainment, but I truly doubt that'll ever happen.

Jan 16, 2009 18:48:28 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

BET you mean Black Exploitation Television?

I haven't watched it in years, back in i's heyday it was a solid channel. But, like MTV the pop crowd killed, but I don't think anything can get as bad a MTV has gotten.

I'm getting the feeling that you dislike BET, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Yes, I agree MTV is complete trash. "MTV" should stand for "Mega Trash Vault" since most of the trash on television is being brodcasted on that channel. It's filled with crappy reality shows and it has lost a massive amount of quality over the years. Since there's already an MTV thread on this forum (with my rant included), I'll try not to say anything else about that channel.

[Dja Majista]

What do you mean "still"? I just said it one time not too long ago.

That was more of how it was divided in musical studies. Though honestly you can say it is secular or non-secular, entertainment or non entertainment, or artistic and non artistic. Though really it is easier to isolate secular and non secular because entertainment and art are so subjective. Seriously when was music *not* made to be entertaining? Of course you could say certain themes intensify a situation on a show or something, or set the mood, but that is still entertainment.

No, I just don't understand how it's either entertainment or religion. You only mentioned religion once in your post, so I'm still unclear as to how that plays in. But if that's the consensus for how people classify music, then I won't argue. But when I say, there's entertainment and then there's artistic expression, I don't mean they're mutually exclusive. I just say those are the two main (possibly the only two) reasons people listen to music. One often has precedence over another. I myself don't care too much about the art side as much as the entertainment aspect (surprisingly enough), I like fun music. Whether it's brilliant and masterful is nigh irrelevant. Though sometimes, particularly with jazz, I do lean towards the "artistic" end of the spectrum.

As for the whole $$$ schtick, come on guys, it's America. If you become successful running a used toilet paper business, I'd say, "More power to ya." Capitalism FTW!

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Jan 18, 2009 0:35:18 GMT -5 Yoshi said:

Well, someone needs to tell Soulja Boy not to "crank dat noise" anymore.

Musicians and singers should focus more on the quality of their songs rather than making songs just for the profits and entertainment, but I truly doubt that'll ever happen.

Jan 16, 2009 18:48:28 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

BET you mean Black Exploitation Television?

I haven't watched it in years, back in i's heyday it was a solid channel. But, like MTV the pop crowd killed, but I don't think anything can get as bad a MTV has gotten.

I'm getting the feeling that you dislike BET, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Yes, I agree MTV is complete trash. "MTV" should stand for "Mega Trash Vault" since most of the trash on television is being brodcasted on that channel. It's filled with crappy reality shows and it has lost a massive amount of quality over the years. Since there's already an MTV thread on this forum (with my rant included), I'll try not to say anything else about that channel.

Well that's the point basically. Rap isn't the only victim it's the media in general. They want to make money, which is great business wise, but it affects the quality. Surely someone must be watching and buying it for it to still be out there. As for the "definition" or categories of music, I wouldn't worry about it too much, there are sub sections within those sections of study, not a big deal really.

[JACK-2]

Jan 18, 2009 0:35:18 GMT -5 Yoshi said:

Well, someone needs to tell Soulja Boy not to "crank dat noise" anymore.

Musicians and singers should focus more on the quality of their songs rather than making songs just for the profits and entertainment, but I truly doubt that'll ever happen.

Well, I dislike "Crank dat" but when it comes to music I try to just forget about what I dislike. As much as I dislike current rap, I don't wanna become an obessesive hater or anything. I just don't buy into it and disassociate myself from things that I do dislike and move closer to things I do like. No need to fuel publicity with controversy which is what haters tend to do. If soulja boy is successful doing something he likes, even if he's not really good in it good for him and best of luck in the future.

Jan 18, 2009 1:00:19 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

As for the whole $$$ schtick, come on guys, it's America. If you become successful running a used toilet paper business, I'd say, "More power to ya." Capitalism FTW!

Well, I don't dislike them for making money. However when people like that corner a market and reduce quality of everything It doesn't make me happy.

[Dja Majista]

I understand, but I think that's more to the fault of the listeners/customers. They got no taste.

That's why I listen to music genres like... "jazz", where the only money to be made lies with experienced, quality-sensitive listeners.

Though this is my favorite rap song. True quality can only come from Tupac you know.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Yea well it's both parties. Much like any overdone, overpriced, and overrated item, people choose to make it successful. It isn't even the taste sometimes it's often about "fitting in", they make so much money off of teenagers it's astounding. We're talking billions of dollars here. You'd be a fool not to target the youth.