Does God exist?

[darthrevan]

A lot of people say they do not believe in God because of science. Well, technically science proves that God excists. Just look at the big bang theory.

• Law of Conservation of Mass: Mass can neither be created or destroyed
  How can that ball of matter just be there? Something supernatural had to create it because according to this law that matter should not have exist
  
• The First Law of Thermodynamics (Law of Energy Conservation) states that energy can be converted from one form into another but it can be neither created or destroyed.
  Where did this energy come from? Someone had to create the energy because there would be no energy for the Big Bang to happen.
  

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Good point, but the same people also say that something had to create god. I think it makes more logical sense believing in an intelligent designer anyways.

[darthrevan]

admin said:

Good point, but the same people also say that something had to create god. I think it makes more logical sense believing in an intelligent designer anyways.

It is kinda like the chicken and the egg.

I just thought about something I heard. It is the watchmaker thing. A watchmaker can't just throw random parts into a pile, and poof... there is a watch. The world is made too perfect. Someone had to create it.

Just think, people were put on a planet with trees, which happen to make oxygen that we need to breathe. Humans produce carbon dioxide which trees need. Plus, if the air had a slightly higher % of oxygen the world would be pretty flammable, and if it had a slightly lower % of oxygen we would suffocate. this is not a coincidence

Think about how complicated the human body is. That cannot be made from random matter coming together. Plus, in that randomness there would have been another human just like the other (except for obvious physical differences). Those two life forms made by coincidence were able to make another life form. Also, millions of other animals would have to been made this way on coincidence.

So yeah, there has to be an intellegent creator

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I agree their does, but in their mind- who created the creator?

[darthrevan]

Well, since God created time and the laws of science & nature I guess he doesn't have to follow them.

It is still hard to understand everything even for a Christian or an athiest.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

But that's my point, if I'm not thinking God exists, you can't simply say "God created everything so there's no need to explain it". I believe God exists myself but there is no physical way for us to prove 100% what he has or hasn't done. Which I'm sure you agree.

[darthrevan]

Yes. I do agree

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

darthrevan said:

Yes. I do agree

So what's your biggest complaint with the argument of the atheist?

[darthrevan]

admin said:

darthrevan said:

Yes. I do agree

So what's your biggest complaint with the argument of the atheist?

When I talk to atheists I talk about creation, and evolution alot. This is because I have scientific facts against it, and it seems like the only proof they will listen to is scientific facts. Most atheists are pretty stubborn and will always try to prove it wrong. For example the facts I gave against the big bang.

Here are two threads of what I was talking about:
(I go by Version 3.1 on there)
Title: Religous persuasion
Title: Chicken or the egg?

[jubilee]

Hmm to be honest i dont think God exist! Im sorry but god is meant to be so bloody powerful and only curse ones that are evil. So why do good people get caught up. Why do god make little kids sick.

One question which needs an answer and not even a priest can answer:

God invented adam and eve. who had two kids. Cain and abel. One killed the other.. so that just leaves Adam, eve and the surviving twin. But the surviving twin married a girl where the fuck did she come from??? The bible doesnt kinda messed that up totatally.

Im sorry but even in greek myth the gods wouwld let war and disease go on like this so called god is doing. Is he sitting on his throne watching the world he so called created and having a bloody good laugh.

c'mon he doesnt exist he was just invent by story tellers for being to believe in.

[tshern]

admin said:

Good point, but the same people also say that something had to create god. I think it makes more logical sense believing in an intelligent designer anyways.

It indeed is a good point, but your point is valid too. If God was able to simply exist, there is no logical reason for energy/mass being unable to exist.

And then briefly about the evolution. The main argument I get from the believers is that the first cell was created randomly. I hate using strawmen in arguments and that is one of the greatest and best-known of them. The first cell being created randomly fights against the whole idea of evolution...

[alfheim]

jubilee said:

Hmm to be honest i dont think God exist! Im sorry but god is meant to be so bloody powerful and only curse ones that are evil. So why do good people get caught up. Why do god make little kids sick.

One question which needs an answer and not even a priest can answer:

God invented adam and eve. who had two kids. Cain and abel. One killed the other.. so that just leaves Adam, eve and the surviving twin. But the surviving twin married a girl where the fuck did she come from??? The bible doesnt kinda messed that up totatally.

Im sorry but even in greek myth the gods wouwld let war and disease go on like this so called god is doing. Is he sitting on his throne watching the world he so called created and having a bloody good laugh.

c'mon he doesnt exist he was just invent by story tellers for being to believe in.

First of all the Bible isnt supposed to be taken literialy. Secondly suffering sucks but that does not mean God doesn't exist. Suffering has a purpose as well. When we suffer we act to improve our situation. If there was no suffering mankind would not evolve.

Think about it. Usually when you want something worthwhile you have to suffer to get it, even if it means just keeping fit.

[darthrevan]

jubilee said:

Hmm to be honest i dont think God exist! Im sorry but god is meant to be so bloody powerful and only curse ones that are evil. So why do good people get caught up. Why do god make little kids sick.

One question which needs an answer and not even a priest can answer:

God invented adam and eve. who had two kids. Cain and abel. One killed the other.. so that just leaves Adam, eve and the surviving twin. But the surviving twin married a girl where the fuck did she come from??? The bible doesnt kinda messed that up totatally.

Im sorry but even in greek myth the gods wouwld let war and disease go on like this so called god is doing. Is he sitting on his throne watching the world he so called created and having a bloody good laugh.

c'mon he doesnt exist he was just invent by story tellers for being to believe in.

For one, God doesn't necessarily make people sick. Sometimes things just happens in life. It is not like God makes people sick for a reason, or he just doesn't care. He just made the world where things might or might not happen. God might put these obstacles in our life to help us somewhere else. Maybe something bad will happen, and that experience will make us stronger.

With the whole Adam and Eve thing, the Bible doesn't tell about everything that happened to them when they left Eden. People believe that they had a daughter, and that is where his wife came from.

[tshern]

darthrevan said:

With the whole Adam and Eve thing, the Bible doesn't tell about everything that happened to them when they left Eden. People believe that they had a daughter, and that is where his wife came from.

You think it is fair that we have to suffer the consequences of the deeds done by Adam and Eve? In my opinion it is not very merciful to make billions upon billions of people live in a world full of disease, suffering and poverty simply because to random people happened to make a bad choice.

[darthrevan]

tshern said:

darthrevan said:

With the whole Adam and Eve thing, the Bible doesn't tell about everything that happened to them when they left Eden. People believe that they had a daughter, and that is where his wife came from.

You think it is fair that we have to suffer the consequences of the deeds done by Adam and Eve? In my opinion it is not very merciful to make billions upon billions of people live in a world full of disease, suffering and poverty simply because to random people happened to make a bad choice.

They got punished because they sinned. We continue to have these problems because we continue to sin.

[EsteemedLeader©]

What branch of Christianity do you belong to?

[darthrevan]

I'm non-denominational. The church I go to is a Church of Christ.

[EsteemedLeader©]

And you go every Sunday?

[darthrevan]

Yes I do. Why?

[EsteemedLeader©]

Trying to find a chink in your armor.

Believe in evolution?

[darthrevan]

No I do not. It talks in the Bible how God created the birds, fish etc. According to evolution everything started from one organism, and that is going against what the Bible is saying for creation.

[Psyquis52]

tshern said:

darthrevan said:

With the whole Adam and Eve thing, the Bible doesn't tell about everything that happened to them when they left Eden. People believe that they had a daughter, and that is where his wife came from.

You think it is fair that we have to suffer the consequences of the deeds done by Adam and Eve? In my opinion it is not very merciful to make billions upon billions of people live in a world full of disease, suffering and poverty simply because to random people happened to make a bad choice.

Question: If you were in their shoes do you honestly believe you could do better?

I mean sure, we know better now but how could they have known? Do you believe you would fair better against Satan?

I don't. People can talk and talk all about how we pay for his sins when in fact it would've been the same either way.

[tshern]

psyquis52 said:

Question: If you were in their shoes do you honestly believe you could do better?

I mean sure, we know better now but how could they have known? Do you believe you would fair better against Satan?

I don't. People can talk and talk all about how we pay for his sins when in fact it would've been the same either way.

Going against an imaginary being? I can see that happening. But going hypothetical and saying that the God exists and has an opposite, the Devil: No, I don't think I'd do any better. However, how fair is it to prevent the people from having the possibility of doing a better choice? Doesn't sound too merciful to me.

My question to you: Sorry, I don't intend to insult you or anything, this is completely hypothetical, but this is the best example I can come up with this fast. If your parents commited a murder, should you spend the rest of your life in a prison? I don't think you should.

Master said:

No I do not. It talks in the Bible how God created the birds, fish etc. According to evolution everything started from one organism, and that is going against what the Bible is saying for creation.

Even though there is visible micro-evolution everywhere? Note that I am not talking about the makro-evolution, but the evolution within the species. For example bacteria grow immune to different medicines over time. That is exactly what evolution is and you don't believe it?

[darthrevan]

Microevolution obviously exists, but there is no proof for macroevolution. I do admit there is a lot of evidence that make evolution look like it could happen, but it doesn't show that it did happen.

tshern said:

psyquis52 said:

My question to you: Sorry, I don't intend to insult you or anything, this is completely hypothetical, but this is the best example I can come up with this fast. If your parents commited a murder, should you spend the rest of your life in a prison? I don't think you should.

That is not the same thing with the Adam and Eve thing. We are still disobeying God today so we are still being punished.

[tshern]

darthrevan said:

Microevolution obviously exists, but there is no proof for macroevolution. I do admit there is a lot of evidence that make evolution look like it could happen, but it doesn't show that it did happen.

tshern said:

psyquis52 said:

My question to you: Sorry, I don't intend to insult you or anything, this is completely hypothetical, but this is the best example I can come up with this fast. If your parents commited a murder, should you spend the rest of your life in a prison? I don't think you should.

That is not the same thing with the Adam and Eve thing. We are still disobeying God today so we are still being punished.

Damn I'm glad that you agree with microevolution. I didn't want to go there, I had a fervent debate about it with an American exhange student we had last year in our school. Nor do I take a leap into the macroevolution now because of the lack of evidence.

But then to Adam and Eve, plus such. We are disobeying God by simply getting out of the womb of our mother? God isn't giving a choice then, which again rises the question about His infinite mercy and so forth. A merciful God, who still condemns every single human being to the misery called life simply because they are born regardless of their opinions?

And why does God have the supreme power to judge us? Because he is more powerful? Heck, I'm more powerful than the 1st graders, but I don't have the authority to throw them into the jail for crimes they didn't know they were committing. God simply has no authority over human life, he just does not have any permission to judge us only because he was here first. Is the President of the United States allowed to judge a young Sudanese kid? No, he does not.

Not only I don't believe in God's existence but I also deeply despise his (supposing he exists) methods of expressing and imposing his power. Two people make a mistake, billions suffer. Someone doesn't ever hear about God, he goes to the deepest pits of Hell because of his insolence. A zealous believer kills a woman and ascends to Heaven because he believes in God. There simply is no logic in his actions just like his deeds are cruel as the Devil.

[darthrevan]

tshern said:

darthrevan said:

Microevolution obviously exists, but there is no proof for macroevolution. I do admit there is a lot of evidence that make evolution look like it could happen, but it doesn't show that it did happen.

tshern said:

That is not the same thing with the Adam and Eve thing. We are still disobeying God today so we are still being punished.

Damn I'm glad that you agree with microevolution. I didn't want to go there, I had a fervent debate about it with an American exhange student we had last year in our school. Nor do I take a leap into the macroevolution now because of the lack of evidence.

But then to Adam and Eve, plus such. We are disobeying God by simply getting out of the womb of our mother? God isn't giving a choice then, which again rises the question about His infinite mercy and so forth. A merciful God, who still condemns every single human being to the misery called life simply because they are born regardless of their opinions?

And why does God have the supreme power to judge us? Because he is more powerful? Heck, I'm more powerful than the 1st graders, but I don't have the authority to throw them into the jail for crimes they didn't know they were committing. God simply has no authority over human life, he just does not have any permission to judge us only because he was here first. Is the President of the United States allowed to judge a young Sudanese kid? No, he does not.

Not only I don't believe in God's existence but I also deeply despise his (supposing he exists) methods of expressing and imposing his power. Two people make a mistake, billions suffer. Someone doesn't ever hear about God, he goes to the deepest pits of Hell because of his insolence. A zealous believer kills a woman and ascends to Heaven because he believes in God. There simply is no logic in his actions just like his deeds are cruel as the Devil.

The reason he can judge, and punish is because he created us. He punishes us so we will know right from wrong.

The part about the people not knowing about God and going to Hell, I do not totally understand. Someone explained it but I forgot.

Where did you get the idea that people just have to believe in God to go to heaven? If someone tries their hardest to follow by the rules set in the Bible, then they will go to Heaven. An example I have is a club. Someone can believe that the club president exists, but that someone can't join the club unless they follow the rules. It is kinda the same way with Heaven for the most part.

[Psyquis52]

tshern said:

psyquis52 said:

My question to you: Sorry, I don't intend to insult you or anything, this is completely hypothetical, but this is the best example I can come up with this fast. If your parents commited a murder, should you spend the rest of your life in a prison? I don't think you should.

;D Good question. Valid one too. No. I don't think I should go to prison for it.
However that takes the subject matter slightly out of context.
If one does truly believe in God then they must believe in the Omniscience of God and in so trusting that He is aware of all the options that your life presents. That being said God is aware of every time you sin and every time you don't and everytime you have a choice between the two.
Essentially what I'm saying is that the crime for which Adam and Eve were punished for and that you and I were punished for is a crime we are all guilty of. It's not the fruit that matters but the act. It was sin and everyone sins. Nobody's perfect save God Himself.

Sin itself is an exceptionally easy thing to do. Sin is basically everything that falls just short of God's plan. What does that mean? I don't know entirely but based of that definition one would assume that so much as taking a step in the wrong direction could be interprited as a sin.

So my thoughts? I don't worry about it. ;D

It's very hard to offend me Tshern. I used to talk about this kind of stuff with people that considered themselves to be vampires. And if you think your question was hard try answering it again while keeping everyone away from your neck.

[darthrevan]

I personally think sin is so easy because Satan is constantly trying to get us to do it. He is making sin look appealing, so that is why people do it. If you think about it, good deads are not always fun to do. People try to do stuff the easy way, which is sinning, because it easier.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

darthrevan said:

I personally think sin is so easy because Satan is constantly trying to get us to do it. He is making sin look appealing, so that is why people do it. If you think about it, good deads are not always fun to do. People try to do stuff the easy way, which is sinning, because it easier.

Oddball question, if doing the right thing was wrong, would we be tempted to do that instead?

[Psyquis52]

darthrevan said:

I personally think sin is so easy because Satan is constantly trying to get us to do it. He is making sin look appealing, so that is why people do it. If you think about it, good deads are not always fun to do. People try to do stuff the easy way, which is sinning, because it easier.

Nothing new there, but let's not underestimate our own capacity for sin.

After all Satan can't be everywhere.