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Post by JACK-2 on Aug 16, 2014 2:28:19 GMT -5
Discuss nintendo here.  R.I.P. Satoru Iwata 1959-2015 |
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Post by JACK-2 on Aug 16, 2014 2:30:12 GMT -5
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Aug 16, 2014 6:40:38 GMT -5
Which is what I was saying yesterday. Nintendo makes some neat products but I'm not sure targeting the uber casual base is working anymore like it did. The devices they make are nice, but will that sustain the company in the long run when people start wanting something different? I'm not sure it can. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Aug 16, 2014 9:47:33 GMT -5
I agree about what you said about targeting casuals, but at the sametime I think they could also try to make their hardware/software based games for the rated M crowd as well. Since, that's where core gamers are.
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Post by gurpwnder on Aug 16, 2014 10:15:17 GMT -5
All right, I've been with Nintendo for a really long time, and my opinion on them has worsened considerably as time went on. When I see the Wii U, I see a giant missed opportunity. Nintendo has made the Wii U exclusively a games machine, which I respect a lot. However, if a games machine doesn't have too many games, we have a big problem. I think that the biggest flaw with the thing is that a pro controller isn't bundled with every Wii U. It may seem really simple at first, but it would've done SOO much for the company. Think about it. Developers could easily port popular games from the 360 / PS3 over to the Wii U, confident that every owner is a potential customer. As it is now, the Pro controller is an optional accessory and this has ruined the Wii U (IMO). Now, the only controller that a Wii U owner is guaranteed to have is a tablet. The tablet is a lot more cumbersome to develop for, so many companies stay with Sony and MS. This is an article from Bethusda www.gamasutra.com/view/news/199456/Bethesda_Its_too_late_for_thirdparty_support_on_Wii_U.php talking about how shitty it is for 3rd parties. I'm also upset that Nintendo is waaaaay too over reliant on their first party games (Mario, LoZ, Metroid, Pokemon, etc). We've seem developers put a lot of time and effort into making games exclusive for Nintendo consoles and get nothing for it. Wonderful 101 for the Wii U looks like an absolute blast to play, and reviews have generally been very positive, but the game sold abysmally, which makes me sad. You can read a small bit from Hideki Kamiya (from Platinum Games) mynintendonews.com/2013/07/05/kamiya-concerned-the-wonderful-101s-marketing-isnt-enough/ where he's unhappy that Nintendo isn't givng the game enough attention. I will say though, I still respect Nintendo for a few reasons. They still have a focus on local multiplayer, which is fantastic. They also create many games that players of any skill level can enjoy, like Mario Kart, Mario Party, and Smash which is very intuitive to learn. They make excellent handhelds which are very popular, Also, while they may have failed, at least Nintendo has created a GAMES console, which is more that can be said about the PS4 / X1. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Aug 16, 2014 10:56:49 GMT -5
All right, I've been with Nintendo for a really long time, and my opinion on them has worsened considerably as time went on. When I see the Wii U, I see a giant missed opportunity. Nintendo has made the Wii U exclusively a games machine, which I respect a lot. However, if a games machine doesn't have too many games, we have a big problem. I think that the biggest flaw with the thing is that a pro controller isn't bundled with every Wii U. It may seem really simple at first, but it would've done SOO much for the company. Think about it. Developers could easily port popular games from the 360 / PS3 over to the Wii U, confident that every owner is a potential customer. As it is now, the Pro controller is an optional accessory and this has ruined the Wii U (IMO). Now, the only controller that a Wii U owner is guaranteed to have is a tablet. The tablet is a lot more cumbersome to develop for, so many companies stay with Sony and MS. This is an article from Bethusda www.gamasutra.com/view/news/199456/Bethesda_Its_too_late_for_thirdparty_support_on_Wii_U.php talking about how shitty it is for 3rd parties. I'm also upset that Nintendo is waaaaay too over reliant on their first party games (Mario, LoZ, Metroid, Pokemon, etc). We've seem developers put a lot of time and effort into making games exclusive for Nintendo consoles and get nothing for it. Wonderful 101 for the Wii U looks like an absolute blast to play, and reviews have generally been very positive, but the game sold abysmally, which makes me sad. You can read a small bit from Hideki Kamiya (from Platinum Games) mynintendonews.com/2013/07/05/kamiya-concerned-the-wonderful-101s-marketing-isnt-enough/ where he's unhappy that Nintendo isn't givng the game enough attention. I will say though, I still respect Nintendo for a few reasons. They still have a focus on local multiplayer, which is fantastic. They also create many games that players of any skill level can enjoy, like Mario Kart, Mario Party, and Smash which is very intuitive to learn. They make excellent handhelds which are very popular, Also, while they may have failed, at least Nintendo has created a GAMES console, which is more that can be said about the PS4 / X1. When you say game machine, do you mean the fact that it's not trying to be a PC lite? It seems to have a fair amount of functionality from what I've seen of it. I'm not sure a "game machine" is necessary nowadays since people want to have a machine that does everything. When you have handheld devices and phones which have so much functionality it's hard to sell a device that does one thing. Especially at a price that's not too far away from more versatile machines. Then again the downside of that is that the more you raise the cost of a console to add "functionality", you then make it more like a crappy PC anyways which makes a PC an even better option. If they were to make a game machine, I'd only buy it if it were much cheaper to justify the lack of functionality you get with other machines. You're right, their first party games were a big selling point in the past and are solid but they can't rely on the diehard fans to carry them forever. This never works since the casuals are fickle and will jump at the latest thing and the long term players eventually go elsewhere. Local Multiplayer is nice, but online is definitely the main focus. Which can be a good an bad thing at times if developers don't focus on other aspects of the game and just bland multiplayer. |
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Post by gurpwnder on Aug 16, 2014 11:43:20 GMT -5
When you say game machine, do you mean the fact that it's not trying to be a PC lite? It seems to have a fair amount of functionality from what I've seen of it. I'm not sure a "game machine" is necessary nowadays since people want to have a machine that does everything. When you have handheld devices and phones which have so much functionality it's hard to sell a device that does one thing. Especially at a price that's not too far away from more versatile machines. Then again the downside of that is that the more you raise the cost of a console to add "functionality", you then make it more like a crappy PC anyways which makes a PC an even better option. If they were to make a game machine, I'd only buy it if it were much cheaper to justify the lack of functionality you get with other machines. You're right, their first party games were a big selling point in the past and are solid but they can't rely on the diehard fans to carry them forever. This never works since the casuals are fickle and will jump at the latest thing and the long term players eventually go elsewhere. Local Multiplayer is nice, but online is definitely the main focus. Which can be a good an bad thing at times if developers don't focus on other aspects of the game and just bland multiplayer. Gonna have to disagree with you there, man. I don't think online can ever simulate the hype of local multiplayer with you and some friends, and that's very important to me. A couple of months ago, a group of friends and I played some Mario Kart: Double Dash. By the end of the grand prix, we were yanking out each others' controllers, putting hoods over each others' faces and just having a blast. The trash talking and insane amounts of hype is the reason I'll always prefer local multiplayer (that, and considerably better performance than online). I'll be honest and say that I don't really know TOO much about what the PS4 / X1 are doing now, but I remember the X1 being marketed as a one-stop entertainment station that could let you wach TV, go on Skype, etc. and I think those features took away resources that could've been put into making more games. If Nintendo is focused solely on making games, then I know that their time and resources are all going towards making games, which I think is good. This is a pretty big tangent, so we could probably go into PM's, but I really don't like how all our new devices are trying to do everything. I'd like to see one thing done very well rather than a bunch of things done decently. I know I'm clearly in the minority, though. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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I'm still here... for now...
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Aug 16, 2014 12:38:05 GMT -5
When you say game machine, do you mean the fact that it's not trying to be a PC lite? It seems to have a fair amount of functionality from what I've seen of it. I'm not sure a "game machine" is necessary nowadays since people want to have a machine that does everything. When you have handheld devices and phones which have so much functionality it's hard to sell a device that does one thing. Especially at a price that's not too far away from more versatile machines. Then again the downside of that is that the more you raise the cost of a console to add "functionality", you then make it more like a crappy PC anyways which makes a PC an even better option. If they were to make a game machine, I'd only buy it if it were much cheaper to justify the lack of functionality you get with other machines. You're right, their first party games were a big selling point in the past and are solid but they can't rely on the diehard fans to carry them forever. This never works since the casuals are fickle and will jump at the latest thing and the long term players eventually go elsewhere. Local Multiplayer is nice, but online is definitely the main focus. Which can be a good an bad thing at times if developers don't focus on other aspects of the game and just bland multiplayer. Gonna have to disagree with you there, man. I don't think online can ever simulate the hype of local multiplayer with you and some friends, and that's very important to me. A couple of months ago, a group of friends and I played some Mario Kart: Double Dash. By the end of the grand prix, we were yanking out each others' controllers, putting hoods over each others' faces and just having a blast. The trash talking and insane amounts of hype is the reason I'll always prefer local multiplayer (that, and considerably better performance than online). I'll be honest and say that I don't really know TOO much about what the PS4 / X1 are doing now, but I remember the X1 being marketed as a one-stop entertainment station that could let you wach TV, go on Skype, etc. and I think those features took away resources that could've been put into making more games. If Nintendo is focused solely on making games, then I know that their time and resources are all going towards making games, which I think is good. This is a pretty big tangent, so we could probably go into PM's, but I really don't like how all our new devices are trying to do everything. I'd like to see one thing done very well rather than a bunch of things done decently. I know I'm clearly in the minority, though. When I say online is the main focus, what I'm saying is that people nowadays use online a lot because it allows them to play at any time and an place with people all over the world. When I was a kid and my friends lived near me and my brother lived with me, playing in person was amazing and a great choice as online gaming wasn't around much less evolved. The laughs, the joking around, and everything else was there. Nowadays I'm an old fart and I run a business plus do a lot of other things, and my friends live in other states as well as my brother so it simply isn't feasable anymore. I like being able to take a shower and come on at 1am in my boxer shorts and play people and then log off without having to clean up or send them home. I can take a break and eat, or do anything else while playing and no need to dress up. I think this is a large reason why arcades died out. Well I agree that gaming platforms should be primarily for gaming (obviously) I just know that people like entertainment centers. I think PS1 brought that craze on with gaming+music which was then expanded to playing movies and such which drew in a large base. It's not off topic at all, we're talking about gaming and whatnot so it's fine. I'd have no problem with a gaming device *just* being a gaming device. It's just that nowadays I wouldn't pay $300 for it when other systems cost that much and do everything with comparible specs, not to mention mobile devices having lots of functionality. On the other end the more I pay the more I might as well buy a PC. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Aug 16, 2014 14:16:21 GMT -5
This is a pretty big tangent, so we could probably go into PM's, but I really don't like how all our new devices are trying to do everything. I'd like to see one thing done very well rather than a bunch of things done decently. I know I'm clearly in the minority, though. I dislike media convergence as well. It's by far the most overhyped and worthless technological innovation in years/ Yet, in the last 15 years it seems that's the biggest focus in technology. A device that has the functionality of other devices. It's ridiculous, but that's where it's going and as C says: You can't sell a device that has a single functionality. So, what's the point of getting a console now? More and more they're aping PC's, Tablets and Smartphones. Combined that with more and more ports to PC. Now you have a perfect storm that is contributing to the irrelevancy of consoles. Consoles need a way to stay relevant. Nintendo has it's hardware and software proprietary based products. Xbox had a living room entertainment feature, but ditched it due to pressure. [Stupid move listening to fanboys] Sony has. . . nothing. |
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Post by gurpwnder on Aug 16, 2014 15:16:18 GMT -5
I dislike media convergence as well. It's by far the most overhyped and worthless technological innovation in years/ Yet, in the last 15 years it seems that's the biggest focus in technology. A device that has the functionality of other devices. It's ridiculous, but that's where it's going and as C says: You can't sell a device that has a single functionality. So, what's the point of getting a console now? More and more they're aping PC's, Tablets and Smartphones. Combined that with more and more ports to PC. Now you have a perfect storm that is contributing to the irrelevancy of consoles. Consoles need a way to stay relevant. Nintendo has it's hardware and software proprietary based products. Xbox had a living room entertainment feature, but ditched it due to pressure. [Stupid move listening to fanboys] Sony has. . . nothing. Ninty's hardware gimmicks are restricting 3rd party development, which really sucks. Save the 'innovate' stuff for the games instead of grinding out a new "New Super Mario Bros" periodically. Yeah, I never really got the whole hype behind the Piss 4. Nothing's really changed. I find it hard to believe we're in a 'new age' of gaming, when this is just the last gen + prettier graphics. However, Ninty's gimmicks aren't the way to go IMO. Ninty should probably stick to handhelds, which they're doing very well. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Aug 16, 2014 15:35:10 GMT -5
Third party development is bleeding out into PC, it won't be there to save consoles for long. Even MGS 5 is getting a PC port. Third Party exclusives are disappearing left and right. Now, it's limited exclusives meaning the title stays exclusive for a time period before being ported.
Right now, nintendo needs them. But, who knows in the future.
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Post by gurpwnder on Aug 16, 2014 15:50:07 GMT -5
Yeah, PC's absolutely amazing. I only got one recently, but I know I've been missing out on the good stuff for a while now. It's a shame that Steam lacks quality control, so all this shovelware is bursting in now.
Restricting devs from making more games for your games machine is never a good idea.
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Post by JACK-2 on Aug 16, 2014 16:03:30 GMT -5
I don't think they're trying to restrict. Remember how people complained about PS3 being hard to develop for because half the game kits memories were dedicated towards non game-development tools? If nintendo is trying to develop hardware for it's first party titles that's fine, but I think they should solicite first parties to develop for their hardware as well. Don't just keep the Hardware/Software relationship for first party exclusives. My 2cents.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Aug 16, 2014 16:04:39 GMT -5
Glad that you got on the Pc train gurpwnder. You'll love it the more you use it. This is a pretty big tangent, so we could probably go into PM's, but I really don't like how all our new devices are trying to do everything. I'd like to see one thing done very well rather than a bunch of things done decently. I know I'm clearly in the minority, though. I dislike media convergence as well. It's by far the most overhyped and worthless technological innovation in years/ Yet, in the last 15 years it seems that's the biggest focus in technology. A device that has the functionality of other devices. It's ridiculous, but that's where it's going and as C says: You can't sell a device that has a single functionality. So, what's the point of getting a console now? More and more they're aping PC's, Tablets and Smartphones. Combined that with more and more ports to PC. Now you have a perfect storm that is contributing to the irrelevancy of consoles. Consoles need a way to stay relevant. Nintendo has it's hardware and software proprietary based products. Xbox had a living room entertainment feature, but ditched it due to pressure. [Stupid move listening to fanboys] Sony has. . . nothing. I'm in a different boat. I don't dislike consoles doing everything, and it sells well since you can't sell a machine at an equivalent price and not have the functionality. There's nothing wrong with a gaming system being able to do different thing on its own. That said I'd expect it to be good at making games, if the games suck then what's the point? These new systems are pretty much better graphics, then again the old stuff was, except it was more innovative. Third party development is bleeding out into PC, it won't be there to save consoles for long. Even MGS 5 is getting a PC port. Third Party exclusives are disappearing left and right. Now, it's limited exclusives meaning the title stays exclusive for a time period before being ported. Right now, nintendo needs them. But, who knows in the future. Not to mention that PC has its own share of exclusives as well, but as you said developers want to make money and you're going to see less and less exclusives because you can make more money pushing it on multiple platforms. Eventually everything will homogenize which will make it PC, Laptop, and Handheld. After that point consoles will be largely irrelevant. |
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Post by gurpwnder on Aug 16, 2014 17:50:06 GMT -5
Well, anyone have anything to say about the Wii U that I may have missed?
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Aug 16, 2014 17:57:02 GMT -5
Well, anyone have anything to say about the Wii U that I may have missed? What do you see in Nintendo's future? |
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Post by JACK-2 on Aug 16, 2014 17:57:22 GMT -5
This is mainly from the Zelda discussion. But, I'm curious how Wii motion will work with the Wii u pad.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Aug 16, 2014 17:59:23 GMT -5
This is mainly from the Zelda discussion. But, I'm curious how Wii motion will work with the Wii u pad. I'm sure it will be fine overall. How do you feel about it? |
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Post by JACK-2 on Aug 16, 2014 18:01:38 GMT -5
This is mainly from the Zelda discussion. But, I'm curious how Wii motion will work with the Wii u pad. I'm sure it will be fine overall. How do you feel about it?[/quote] I'm more curious as to what will change. The focus on the arrows was interesting. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Aug 16, 2014 18:05:45 GMT -5
This is mainly from the Zelda discussion. But, I'm curious how Wii motion will work with the Wii u pad. I'm sure it will be fine overall. How do you feel about it? I'm more curious as to what will change. The focus on the arrows was interesting.[/quote] I'd like to see them try something really over the top in a future Zelda release, but handle it in a way that doesn't hurt the game. How do you guys feel about Metroid? |
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Post by gurpwnder on Aug 16, 2014 18:11:16 GMT -5
This is mainly from the Zelda discussion. But, I'm curious how Wii motion will work with the Wii u pad. Wii motion as in the Wiimote? Working in tandem with the tablet? Like in that Wii U Sports Golf, where you put the gamepad on the floor and it shows you the golf ball, and you swing your Wiimote over it and hit to hit the ball? |
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Post by JACK-2 on Aug 16, 2014 18:12:27 GMT -5
I've played two metroid games: Fusion and Zero Missions respectively. I like the 2-D ones, but I've heard the 3-D games range from okay to bad.
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Post by JACK-2 on Aug 16, 2014 18:13:39 GMT -5
Wii motion as in the Wiimote? Working in tandem with the tablet? Like in that Wii U Sports Golf, where you put the gamepad on the floor and it shows you the golf ball, and you swing your Wiimote over it and hit to hit the ball? I mean't motion based gameplay in general on the Wii U. I assumed they would be using it again. |
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Post by gurpwnder on Aug 16, 2014 18:17:31 GMT -5
I've played two metroid games: Fusion and Zero Missions respectively. I like the 2-D ones, but I've heard the 3-D games range from okay to bad. I can give you my opinion if you care for it. The Metroid Prime Trilogy is the best thing to ever happen to Metroid. The scan visor added so much to the world, and made the story its own collectible. I love how well the game translated the 2D Metroid to 3D and so much love and care went into the game. M:OM on the other hand is an abomination in soooo many aspects, I'd need to type like a good 7-8 paragraphs to explain why. |
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Post by gurpwnder on Aug 16, 2014 18:19:52 GMT -5
Also, with the Wii U / 3DS, what's up with the distribution of eShop games. Why in blue blazes are GBA games that are HANDHELD only coming to the console? Portable games like Warioware are a great time when on the road, but don't really make for great console games. Also, why is there even a split between what's released on 3DS and Wii U? Why not just simultaneously release everything on both (Except N64 games, which would be exclusive to the Wii U since they're bigger games).
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Aug 16, 2014 18:22:36 GMT -5
I've played two metroid games: Fusion and Zero Missions respectively. I like the 2-D ones, but I've heard the 3-D games range from okay to bad. Really, I thought a lot of people liked Prime. I guess not then. I definitely remember the old ones though, remember that Bikini cheat? |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Aug 16, 2014 18:24:45 GMT -5
Also, with the Wii U / 3DS, what's up with the distribution of eShop games. Why in blue blazes are GBA games that are HANDHELD only coming to the console? Portable games like Warioware are a great time when on the road, but don't really make for great console games. Also, why is there even a split between what's released on 3DS and Wii U? Why not just simultaneously release everything on both (Except N64 games, which would be exclusive to the Wii U since they're bigger games). That doesn't make any sense, you'd figure they'd make handhelds available for handhelds unless there was a compaitibiilty issue. |
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Post by gurpwnder on Aug 16, 2014 18:30:24 GMT -5
Also, with the Wii U / 3DS, what's up with the distribution of eShop games. Why in blue blazes are GBA games that are HANDHELD only coming to the console? Portable games like Warioware are a great time when on the road, but don't really make for great console games. Also, why is there even a split between what's released on 3DS and Wii U? Why not just simultaneously release everything on both (Except N64 games, which would be exclusive to the Wii U since they're bigger games). That doesn't make any sense, you'd figure they'd make handhelds available for handhelds unless there was a compaitibiilty issue. Here's the kicker - Nintendo already released 10 or 12 GBA titles to early adopters of the 3DS. All first party games, and they were very good ones. They were given to those people for free as a thank-you. However, other 3DS owners still have no way of downloading those games. |
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The Big Daddy C-Master
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I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Aug 16, 2014 18:40:13 GMT -5
That doesn't make any sense, you'd figure they'd make handhelds available for handhelds unless there was a compaitibiilty issue. Here's the kicker - Nintendo already released 10 or 12 GBA titles to early adopters of the 3DS. All first party games, and they were very good ones. They were given to those people for free as a thank-you. However, other 3DS owners still have no way of downloading those games. GBA did have some very nice titles. I enjoyed playing them on my PSP lol. I do have a GBA lying around somewhere actually. It's sad they didn't pay more attention is this key area. |
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Post by gurpwnder on Aug 16, 2014 18:45:52 GMT -5
I just hope Nintendo remembers to release a standard controller with their next console so that they can see more games on their machine. Also, what's with everything being wireless on the Wii U? I have to BUY a LAN port for the Wii U. I have to BUY ports for wired (Gamecube) controllers.
Screw wireless, I prefer wired. You can only change the game when you're plugged into the game and are near the console. A guy in another room can't just pause a game if he wants. Also, batteries dying mid-match is a hype killer.
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Apr 9, 2018 6:20:33 GMT -5
Apr 9, 2018 6:20:33 GMT -5