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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 18, 2015 19:01:35 GMT -5
]Well the culture includes aspects of American and Japanese culture. You still have tons of Japanese influence in games and the media associated with it. DBZ is of course taking off in popularity again. You have stuff like Naruto, Cowboy Bebop, One Piece, and of course Street Fighter is more popular and influential than the western fighters. You also have Smash. Card games have a Japanese influence. It's just that American comics are handled differently than Manga. Comics use the same characters over and over again for decades, while you have a far higher quantity of manga out there that people don't know about, myself included). American geek media is big in the movies, but the mainstream don't read comics and manga that much anyways, but it is more accepted. Geek is geek really. It also extends to technology, entertainment devices, and apps as well. The vast majority of people won't care if you enjoy it and even people in Hollywood have a lot of nerd hobbies. I see and hear about more people going to comic cons and anime conventions (although I still haven't gone). Well, the culture is definitely influential but it's not promoted enough on this side of the pacific versus American and British stuff. I remember when people were making a big deal because walking dead sold hundreds of thousands of copies. When manga reaches sales of hundreds of millions. Cosplay is another thing that is big, but has largely been appropriated by western Geeks. Personally, I see stuff like Naruto and DBZ declining in popularity in the west. One Piece was never big in the united states and overall anime and manga is not that popular. It's huge in Japan, though [obviously] enough that it's a large Geek culture but generally outside the west which was what I was getting at. Anime ironically isn't even centered around anime, rather tertiary stuff have become the main attraction: you ever needed any direct evidence to support the claim that anime is by and large a “secondary” fan interest in America—that is to say, the people who attend anime conventions may like anime, but they like something else MORE than they like anime—the dealer’s room is the place to witness it. Fans were continually crowded around the booths dedicated to buying raver gear, vampire stuff, and of course gay porn:
While at the same time, fans grow more and more hesitant to buy anime and manga despite some really excellent deals to be found:
Therein lies your answer as to why anime convention attendance continues to increase as anime / manga sales gradually decline: the anime cons are being populated more and more by fans who spend most of their money on something else first and foremost. www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2011/05/03-1/anime-boston-dealers-room-riotAnother reason why I learned Japanese. Nothing was getting licensed? |
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 18, 2015 19:22:20 GMT -5
]Well the culture includes aspects of American and Japanese culture. You still have tons of Japanese influence in games and the media associated with it. DBZ is of course taking off in popularity again. You have stuff like Naruto, Cowboy Bebop, One Piece, and of course Street Fighter is more popular and influential than the western fighters. You also have Smash. Card games have a Japanese influence. It's just that American comics are handled differently than Manga. Comics use the same characters over and over again for decades, while you have a far higher quantity of manga out there that people don't know about, myself included). American geek media is big in the movies, but the mainstream don't read comics and manga that much anyways, but it is more accepted. Geek is geek really. It also extends to technology, entertainment devices, and apps as well. The vast majority of people won't care if you enjoy it and even people in Hollywood have a lot of nerd hobbies. I see and hear about more people going to comic cons and anime conventions (although I still haven't gone). Well, the culture is definitely influential but it's not promoted enough on this side of the pacific versus American and British stuff. I remember when people were making a big deal because walking dead sold hundreds of thousands of copies. When manga reaches sales of hundreds of millions. Cosplay is another thing that is big, but has largely been appropriated by western Geeks. Personally, I see stuff like Naruto and DBZ declining in popularity in the west. One Piece was never big in the united states and overall anime and manga is not that popular. It's huge in Japan, though [obviously] enough that it's a large Geek culture but generally outside the west which was what I was getting at. Anime ironically isn't even centered around anime, rather tertiary stuff have become the main attraction: you ever needed any direct evidence to support the claim that anime is by and large a “secondary” fan interest in America—that is to say, the people who attend anime conventions may like anime, but they like something else MORE than they like anime—the dealer’s room is the place to witness it. Fans were continually crowded around the booths dedicated to buying raver gear, vampire stuff, and of course gay porn:
While at the same time, fans grow more and more hesitant to buy anime and manga despite some really excellent deals to be found:
Therein lies your answer as to why anime convention attendance continues to increase as anime / manga sales gradually decline: the anime cons are being populated more and more by fans who spend most of their money on something else first and foremost. www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2011/05/03-1/anime-boston-dealers-room-riotAnother reason why I learned Japanese. Nothing was getting licensed? Well it's promoted based on demand. People pay for what they want to see. You have quite a bit of anime/manga in the US already and some really good content. Manga is different from comics because you just have so many options people aren't aware of. Gaming is still very heavily done there, but the Western market is starting to compete heavily in that market. There have been many shows good or bad like Naruto, DBZ, Inuyasha, One Piece, and Fairy Tail that have their large fanbase and they get renewed season after season so somebody has to be making the money. Not to mention card games, Poke'mon which is massive though not in the boom days still sells tons of merchandise. People don't buy as much media because they just consume it for free via online. In terms of popular culture. Anime/Manga definitely has more influence than it did decades ago and it doesn't have the same stigma that it did. There might be some who think it's weird but it's much better than before. I see grown men talking about stuff like DBZ all of the time. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 18, 2015 19:50:39 GMT -5
Really?
Because decades ago it was seen as cool now it's seen as wierd porn stuff. Nerd stuff is generally cooler overall, but anime and manga don't strike me as being bigger. Seems like it was mostly a fad and somethings stayed in the public mind while most stuff just disappeared. The money seems to be primarily centered in japan.
What I'm saying is you have three large blocks for Geek culture: American, British and Japanese. The last one is much more self contained, not smaller in terms of monetary value. But, less sread around the global market. I mean Comiket get's half a million people for attendance which is more than Comic-con, but more people outside of japan know about Comic-con vs Comiket despite being bigger.
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 18, 2015 21:06:16 GMT -5
Really? Because decades ago it was seen as cool now it's seen as wierd porn stuff. Nerd stuff is generally cooler overall, but anime and manga don't strike me as being bigger. Seems like it was mostly a fad and somethings stayed in the public mind while most stuff just disappeared. The money seems to be primarily centered in japan. What I'm saying is you have three large blocks for Geek culture: American, British and Japanese. The last one is much more self contained, not smaller in terms of monetary value. But, less sread around the global market. I mean Comiket get's half a million people for attendance which is more than Comic-con, but more people outside of japan know about Comic-con vs Comiket despite being bigger. Where in the mainstream is anime/manga seen as just weird porn stuff? Maybe some minor subsets, but from what I see people think of things like DBZ and not even Queen's Blade (which isn't even porn). It was new here so it had an impact, but it's definitely more accepted. Why would comics be more accepted and manga not be? They're similar enough. People still get teased for reading comics more than watching the movies that the comics come from. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 18, 2015 21:39:55 GMT -5
Well, because comics have massive movie tie ins which manga don't. Comics aren't really read so much as the characters are popular enough that comics are seen as okay. That's not true for manga.
Yea, DBZ, Voltron and Pokemon are embedded in pop-culture and seen as normal shows. But, even if they're anime they're familiar enough that people don't think of them that way. Anime as a whole outside of a few outliers is seen in a generally negative light. I've seen the shift happen as the anime boom died out. There are still somethings left over, but overall anime isn't popular anymore in the west. Manga has been dead since borders closed and was never too popular either. Not that it matters, I don't think anime and manga needs to be popular overseas to make money. What do you think about niche focus business model?
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 18, 2015 22:17:41 GMT -5
Well, because comics have massive movie tie ins which manga don't. Comics aren't really read so much as the characters are popular enough that comics are seen as okay. That's not true for manga. Yea, DBZ, Voltron and Pokemon are embedded in pop-culture and seen as normal shows. But, even if they're anime they're familiar enough that people don't think of them that way. Anime as a whole outside of a few outliers is seen in a generally negative light. I've seen the shift happen as the anime boom died out. There are still somethings left over, but overall anime isn't popular anymore in the west. Manga has been dead since borders closed and was never too popular either. Not that it matters, I don't think anime and manga needs to be popular overseas to make money. What do you think about niche focus business model? Well you do have some movies that are based off of mainstream anime characters, but yea comics have movie tie ins. But the people who are watching the movies aren't the people who are reading the comics. People who read the comics or go to conventions are still seen as "nerdy" to an extent even if the medium is more expected. Movies are aimed at the masses. Video games are seen the same way. The average person doesn't know much about anime/manga outside of DBZ, Naruto, One Piece, Fairy Tail, YYH, and Inuyasha. That's what they're going to think about, just like they think about Spider-Man, Batman, Wolverine, and Superman when they think of comics. They don't know much more beyond that. I remember anime/manga being seen as kids stuff far more back then, although the adult Japanese cartoons helped get the idea across that animation isn't always for kids so that was good. Keep in mind you have more conventions than ever as well for comics, game, and anime/manga with hot chicks going as well so I'd say it has grown. sinqpopculture.wordpress.com/manga-in-japanese-culture-vs-comics-in-us-culture/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pop_culture_in_the_United_Statesen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga_outside_Japan |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 18, 2015 22:45:48 GMT -5
Oh, you mean't real nerds not poseurs? My bad, yeah real nerds watch everything including manga. When I say Geek or nerd culture I mean the mainstream Geek-Chic crap.
Yeah, the mainstream stuff is general well known. The super mainstream stuff like DBZ, Voltron and Yu-gi-oh are known by everyone in particular. I miss understood you my bad
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 18, 2015 23:06:27 GMT -5
Oh, you mean't real nerds not poseurs? My bad, yeah real nerds watch everything including manga. When I say Geek or nerd culture I mean the mainstream Geek-Chic crap. Yeah, the mainstream stuff is general well known. The super mainstream stuff like DBZ, Voltron and Yu-gi-oh are known by everyone in particular. I miss understood you my bad I just mean that in general society anime/manga isn't as stigmatized as they once were. Idiots are everywhere though. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 18, 2015 23:41:36 GMT -5
You mean mainstream anime and manga? Then yeah, I agree.
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 18, 2015 23:53:25 GMT -5
You mean mainstream anime and manga? Then yeah, I agree. That's the pop culture, fans are fans regardless of infighting. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 0:02:38 GMT -5
Well, I was referring to the general stuff. When you say "anime" of course people think of the few successful titles that managed to stick around after the bubble. Those titles are part of the general pop-culture now and people who don't even watch anime know of them. But, when I say anime I mean the people who identify as fans of Japanese stuff specifically. Things like DBZ or Street Fighter are popular enough that being Japanese doesn't affect their popularity. I don't think most anime has that pull for the general audience, even if you include Geeks. While a few select works are popular, the "Anime" fandom as a whole and most anime as a whole is not. You mentioned that the situation is like comics, where everyone knows Batman, Superman and Spider-Man. I also don't think it's a case of just obscure anime being non-popular, because if you took the most popular anime from japan. Nobody in the west would even know about them. Because Japan's taste is very different from ours and the market is geared towards Japanese fans. So, it's a different situation then mainstream stuff vs obscure stuff. Japanese media is mostly niche from our perspective, you mention this before too: That Japanese tend to make mostly niche stuff. And, there's a correlation between what is popular with what audiences in the global market want to see and what gets made. It's not really like that with anime, because alot of shows that are popular with global audiences don't get funding: Ninja Scroll, Akira, Cowboy bebop and Ghost in a shell were popular in the west but shows like them rarely funding. Anime's popularity was a false bubble with no real money behind it. Now they've decided to focus on the domestic audience leading to people not really liking the content. Look at how many people complain about modern anime and how it's all soft-core porn or Google "Moe". Stuff like DBZ and Pokemon will always be popular because they've integrated into pop-culture. The shows that didn't spread beyond anime fandom specifically are dead. Keep in mind you have more conventions than ever as well for comics, game, and anime/manga with hot chicks going as well so I'd say it has grown. I mentioned this before, con attendance s growing but profits aren't. Mostly because people come to anime cons for tertiary stuff besides anime: clgamer.com/2012/04/sakura-con-2012-on-the-decline/Daryl Surat also mentioned this in the article I posted. People go to anime Cons primarily for non-anime related content. you ever needed any direct evidence to support the claim that anime is by and large a “secondary” fan interest in America—that is to say, the people who attend anime conventions may like anime, but they like something else MORE than they like anime—the dealer’s room is the place to witness it. Fans were continually crowded around the booths dedicated to buying raver gear, vampire stuff, and of course gay porn: While at the same time, fans grow more and more hesitant to buy anime and manga despite some really excellent deals to be found: Therein lies your answer as to why anime convention attendance continues to increase as anime / manga sales gradually decline: the anime cons are being populated more and more by fans who spend most of their money on something else first and foremost.
www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2011/05/03-1/anime-boston-dealers-room-riot |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 0:35:54 GMT -5
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 23, 2015 2:53:38 GMT -5
Well, I was referring to the general stuff. When you say "anime" of course people think of the few successful titles that managed to stick around after the bubble. Those titles are part of the general pop-culture now and people who don't even watch anime know of them. But, when I say anime I mean the people who identify as fans of Japanese stuff specifically. Things like DBZ or Street Fighter are popular enough that being Japanese doesn't affect their popularity. I don't think most anime has that pull for the general audience, even if you include Geeks. While a few select works are popular, the "Anime" fandom as a whole and most anime as a whole is not. You mentioned that the situation is like comics, where everyone knows Batman, Superman and Spider-Man. I also don't think it's a case of just obscure anime being non-popular, because if you took the most popular anime from japan. Nobody in the west would even know about them. Because Japan's taste is very different from ours and the market is geared towards Japanese fans. So, it's a different situation then mainstream stuff vs obscure stuff. Japanese media is mostly niche from our perspective, you mention this before too: That Japanese tend to make mostly niche stuff. And, there's a correlation between what is popular with what audiences in the global market want to see and what gets made. It's not really like that with anime, because alot of shows that are popular with global audiences don't get funding: Ninja Scroll, Akira, Cowboy bebop and Ghost in a shell were popular in the west but shows like them rarely funding. Anime's popularity was a false bubble with no real money behind it. Now they've decided to focus on the domestic audience leading to people not really liking the content. Look at how many people complain about modern anime and how it's all soft-core porn or Google "Moe". Stuff like DBZ and Pokemon will always be popular because they've integrated into pop-culture. The shows that didn't spread beyond anime fandom specifically are dead. Keep in mind you have more conventions than ever as well for comics, game, and anime/manga with hot chicks going as well so I'd say it has grown. I mentioned this before, con attendance s growing but profits aren't. Mostly because people come to anime cons for tertiary stuff besides anime: clgamer.com/2012/04/sakura-con-2012-on-the-decline/Daryl Surat also mentioned this in the article I posted. People go to anime Cons primarily for non-anime related content. you ever needed any direct evidence to support the claim that anime is by and large a “secondary” fan interest in America—that is to say, the people who attend anime conventions may like anime, but they like something else MORE than they like anime—the dealer’s room is the place to witness it. Fans were continually crowded around the booths dedicated to buying raver gear, vampire stuff, and of course gay porn: While at the same time, fans grow more and more hesitant to buy anime and manga despite some really excellent deals to be found: Therein lies your answer as to why anime convention attendance continues to increase as anime / manga sales gradually decline: the anime cons are being populated more and more by fans who spend most of their money on something else first and foremost.
www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2011/05/03-1/anime-boston-dealers-room-riot I'm not sure what you're arguing though, it seems like you're arguing multiple points. I'm arguing that anime/manga/Japanese related culture is a more accepted part of the mainstream now compared to a few decades ago where it was looked down upon more for enjoying, and that's simply true, along with gaming and comics. The perception has shifted tremendously and they have been integrated more into pop culture, that's simply a fact. Japan has a different business model that Americans aren't into as much, like buying expensive dvd's when you have netflix or torrents but we do that with other media too. TMNT 2003 on DVD costs thousands of dollars for instance and all of it hasn't been released and it's out of order too. Of course Japanese stuff will be more popular in Japan, but that doesn't make it not popular here. If you put gaming and comics with Anime, then of course it won't get all of the attention, but by itself it still would. Again, most people are unaware of most comics or games outside of major titles as well. Most comic and toy merchandise sales don't come from the general audience. They come from the geek audience. The average Joe and Jane aren't out buying Spider-Man toys or comic books. The movies have boosted the popularity of them, but movies are aimed at the general audience. More accepted doesn't mean the hardcore base is going to necessarily become a general base. Who's saying anime is just porn? And who is watching gay porn? That's a niche audience or more leftist PC stuff. The stuff in the main pop culture has nothing to do with porn, and gay porn is definitely a niche market itself. Americans also have less money and are spending it on fewer things because they're poorer. This is also worth mentioning. Is anime a national past time or a part of life like sports are here? No, but neither are comics. It hasn't come that far along, lol. otakujournalist.com/has-anime-gone-too-mainstream/ |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 11:09:42 GMT -5
Yes, gaming and comics are mainstream now. But, anime hasn't gotten that treatment. The general subsection of people who identify primarily as anime fans has died. Japanese works that are part of the mainstream are often not considered to be anime. Reminder, in America japanese stuff was segregated as anime Because it was considered to be too different. Very very few works have escaped this. Where do you see anime as mainstream? Dbz is just the exception that has become part of the mainstream. But, the whole separation of anime as a thing is over. Most series have either disappeared or become absorbed into the general subculture. Hell, even at animecons you see more interest in non anime related things. Comic con doesn't even have an anime section anymore.
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 11:38:33 GMT -5
Also, that link you posted was about anime in general. I'm talking about anime in the international market. But, yes japanese stuff doesn't sell much abroad. Look at the best selling games in japan and compare them to the best selling games in Europe and America. It's completely different.
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 23, 2015 12:04:35 GMT -5
Yes, gaming and comics are mainstream now. But, anime hasn't gotten that treatment. The general subsection of people who identify primarily as anime fans has died. Japanese works that are part of the mainstream are often not considered to be anime. Reminder, in America japanese stuff was segregated as anime Because it was considered to be too different. Very very few works have escaped this. Where do you see anime as mainstream? Dbz is just the exception that has become part of the mainstream. But, the whole separation of anime as a thing is over. Most series have either disappeared or become absorbed into the general subculture. Hell, even at animecons you see more interest in non anime related things. Comic con doesn't even have an anime section anymore. So you're telling me you believe anime/manga/Japanese media (stuff like the FF series) was more popular in the 80's and 90's in the US? It was relatively unknown then. It is much more mainstream now. Comics aren't mainstream either, comic book movies are. Your comparison is somewhat apples and oranges. There are FAR more anime/manga titles out there that people don't even know about. I might only know 10% of them and that's just being generous. What is there to know about US comics? Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Wolverine with some team up titles? Comics have the same characters and titles released for decades. Anime doesn't do that. DBZ and shows like that don't even compare to the lifespan of major American comics and they are long runners by Japanese standards hence their popularity. Some anime/manga that has 13 episodes just isn't going to compare. DBZ Naruto One Piece Fairy Tail YYH Inuyasha Tenchi Sailor Moon Pokemon Lupin The Third Cowboy Bebop These shows have all become more mainstream, we didn't have this back in the 80's and early 90's in America where these were that popular. I recall it starting to get popular around the 2000's actually and it's grown since then. Sales figures of hardcore merchandise doesn't account for mainstream popularity and presence. Look at the TMNT. It's been around for decades and it's mainstream, their merchandise and comic sales go up and down throughout various times. Does that mean that they're less mainstream now? No. People were crazy about them when they were new and gaining steam, but they're more known now and older people who grew up with them are fans so it isn't considered "for kids" like it used to be (despite the source material being dark). That's also something to consider. Keep in mind that every culture has it's niche market. Japanese focuses on theirs more no doubt, but they still do things that are more mainstream as well. The US has it's obsession with things that aren't popular worldwide either. That's to be expected. Also when something is more mainstream you don't have to be as "hardcore" to like it anymore. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 12:19:04 GMT -5
Even if you include mainstream anime. None of those shows you listed have much of an audience in the west sans Dbz, Sailor moon and bebop. The later shows creator cant even get funding for his works in japan. Meanwhile Dragonball super despite being out has no simulcast and you can't find it anywhere legally. You see my point? It's not an issue of obscurity. Even formerly obscure stuff like gaurdians of the galaxy can become popular. Comic books aren't popular, but comic book characters are. Anime and anime characters are not in the same league. There are no large Hollywood movie properties with anime or manga characters. There's no anime character as popular as Batman or Superman or Tmnt.
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 12:33:03 GMT -5
Yes, but tmnt comics and merchandise are more popular than manga sales in the states. Comics sell more than manga in America.
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 23, 2015 13:13:34 GMT -5
Well my initial concern was that you were saying there's this awful stigma for liking Japanese stuff nowadays and I'm not seeing it. Especially not compared to the past. Geek culture encompasses all of this and it's all more popular now. Even DnD has gotten a bit more popular, but it's still WAY less popular than anime or comics. Even if you include mainstream anime. None of those shows you listed have much of an audience in the west sans Dbz an bebop. The later shows creator cant even get funding for his works in japan. Dragonball super despite being out has no simulcast and you can't find it anywhere legally. You see my point? It's not an issue of obscurity. Even formerly obscure stuff like gaurdians of the galaxy is more popular. The HST definitely has an audience. DBZ is doing battle of the Gods as well. Fairy Tail is popular, and the other shows are older but still have their fanbases. That's no different than the classic comic book cartoons that came out 10-15 years ago, they're not as popular as they were in their prime in most cases, but they still have a fanbase. You also have to keep in mind that comic characters have an entire set of characters that work in one universe. Anime/Manga seldomly does that. People know other villains and characters by proxy of the more popular characters. That's why they slap Wolverine on the cover of everything. Judging by the reads and rankings of those shows they are still quite popular. Guardians of the Galaxy isn't as well known as DBZ. It's grown in popularity since the mainstream release but the comic book sales and things like that haven't changed tremendously. Movie audiences and comic book audiences aren't the same. Yes, but tmnt comics and merchandise are more popular than manga sales in the states. Comics sell more than manga in America. Japanese related entertainment is more popular in Japan than in America. Just because comics are more popular here it doesn't make anime/manga unpopular. Based on that argument you could say that Street Fighter is unpopular because it sells less than Call of Duty, but we all know that isn't the case. You keep confusing sales with popularity. The mainstream aren't buying comics, manga, or TMNT. They might watch the cartoons/movies and the children buy the toys sometimes but the average Joe isn't purchasing those things. Comic book consumption is still not mainstream the same way that movies are where the average dope is doing it. Those are for hardcore fans. It still doesn't take away from the fact that Japanese entertainment is more popular in America than it was decades ago. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 13:28:48 GMT -5
Let's keep it small and concise since I'm on mobile. How is it more popular when we have less anime on tv and cable? Anime doesn't even have presence in cons like Comic-Con. Furthermore, there's no sales on dvd. You say I conflate sales with popularity. Then let's stick to popularity then. Where are anime or manga characters that are as popular as Superman or Batman or even Tmnt? You say reads and rankings show they are popular. But, where are these rankings? There aren't any ips in icv2 top 5 that is anime.
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 13:38:18 GMT -5
Even if limit ourselves to hardcore audiences only. Anime isn't that big, it's even smaller than comics. Geek stuff is more popular, I agree. But anime hasn't really made the transition into mainstream culture. Do you agree with that?
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 23, 2015 13:48:20 GMT -5
Let's keep it small and concise since I'm on mobile. How is it more popular when we have less anime on tv and cable? Anime doesn't even have presence in cons like Comic-Con. Furthermore, there's no sales on dvd. You say I conflate sales with popularity. Then let's stick to popularity then. Where are anime or manga characters that are as popular as Superman or Batman or even Tmnt? You say reads and rankings show they are popular. But, where are these rankings? There aren't any ips in icv2 top 5 that is anime. That's because people would rather consume it on Netflix or the Internet rather than pay for it. You never answered my question on whether you feel manga/anime less mainstream now than it was in the 80's and 90's. I don't get your argument here. Why would something need to be more popular than Batman or Superman to be popular? Is Street Fighter unpopular because it doesn't have the popularity of Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto? As a matter of fact you could say just about every franchise is unpopular based on that. Is Burger King unpopular because it isn't as popular as McDonalds? What about Taco Bell? Is Target unpopular because it doesn't sell like Wal Mart? Is Taylor Swift unpopular because she doesn't have the popularity of Elvis, The Beatles, or Michael Jackson? It's just not a sound argument to say something has to be equally as popular or more popular to the most popular thing and call it unpopular. Comic book culture isn't as popular as sports? Does that mean it's unpopular? of course not. There's no more of a stigma for consuming Japanese entertainment than there is for American entertainment. Most don't care and the few that do might think you're somewhat nerdy and not think much beyond it than that. There's not some cult out there trying to strangle anime fans. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 13:58:29 GMT -5
Fair enough, I guess I wasn't concrete enough. My bad, I can be too vague at times. What I'm saying is compared to western stuff. That anime and manga are less popular and sell less. They also penetrate less markets overall. The popularity of anime has also declined since the anime boom in the late 90s and early 2000's.
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 23, 2015 14:03:39 GMT -5
Fair enough, I guess I wasn't concrete enough. My bad, I can be too vague at times. What I'm saying is compared to western stuff. That anime and manga are less popular and sell less. They also penetrate less markets overall. The popularity of anime has also declined since the anime boom in the late 90s and early 2000's. It's ok. You were kind of confusing me. Yes they definitely aren't Spider-Man popular, but then again those characters have been around for decades. I don't think it's so much of a decline. When something is relatively obscure and then becomes mainstream it is going to boom because nobody knows of it. Once it becomes mainstream the growth inevitably slows. I mean these comic movies are the buzz now, but believe me they will taper off as well like they have before. They won't be "unpopular" but the hype will fade down. TMNT did the same thing and so have fighting games. They peak, they slow down, and then they come back. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 14:18:15 GMT -5
Yeah, there was an anime boom back in the late 90s and early 00s. But, like all booms when it died anime went back to it's normal levels of popularity. I got into anime during the boom. So, when I think about anime I always refer back to that point. But, the market isn't the same. Anime seems to be set apart from other geek things like comics and sci-fi shows. Even before they got big. I always hated that and I think that's why it hasn't benefitrd from the geek boom. Like comics and 80s cartoons have.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 23, 2015 14:22:21 GMT -5
Yeah, there was a boom for things japanese. But, like all booms when it died it went back to it's normal levels of popularity. I got into anime during the boom. So, when I think about anime I always refer back to that point. But, the market isn't the same. Anime seems to be set apart from other geek things like comics and sci-fi shows. Even before they got big. I always hated that and I think that's why it hasn't benefitrd from the geek boom. Like comics and 80s cartoons have. Nah it's definitely better than it was 2-3 decades ago, the thing about mainstream popularity is that it's "normal" so nobody really goes crazy as much. I mean you want to see something that is still nerdy, try DnD. I'm into it somewhat and it's still obscure, largely because it requires learning and effort to play and isn't "dumb" entertainment (meaning you just can't sit back) if that makes sense. I still don't see how it's less popular. Young people, teens, and adults are much more aware of it and many people like something Japanese compared to before. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 14:31:12 GMT -5
You mean better than before the boom? Then I guess I agree, if you are comparing it before that period. It's definitely bigger than DnD lol.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 23, 2015 14:33:42 GMT -5
You mean better than before the boom? Then I guess I agree, if you are comparing it before that period. It's definitely bigger than DnD lol. Yep, now that's nerd culture there. I wonder if it'll ever be popular. |
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Post by JACK-2 on Jul 23, 2015 14:38:37 GMT -5
The reason why I was saying it's less popular was because it has less exposure. I don't see anime anywhere offline. Compared to western characters and I doubt any anime character will be embedded into our culture like batman or Tmnt.
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The Big Daddy C-Master
Big Daddy
Living life to the fullest, and it feels great.
I'm still here... for now...
Posts: 26,387
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Post by The Big Daddy C-Master on Jul 23, 2015 15:01:59 GMT -5
The reason why I was saying it's less popular was because it has less exposure. I don't see anime anywhere offline. Compared to western characters and I doubt any anime character will be embedded into our culture like batman or Tmnt. Everything's gone to netflix now and conventions. I know my cousin goes to them all of the time in LA, he draws them and he says it's popping there. |
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