The C-Master Gaming Challenge!

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Ok Mike challenged me to become proficient in Smash Melee, I'm going to main Fox I believe. Seems fun, and I'll need to find the time and a GC to do it. I'm going to finish my Battletoads challenge first as it is long overdue.

My challenge to Mike is:

Become proficient in Capcom vs SNK2 (enough to give me a decent challenge) and to master roll canceling as well. He has a bit of time, as I am busy myself with my own things and I have a challenge from him.





Some additional challenges to anyone. I will pay $100 for these challenges (seriously, I'm confident they will only be completed by someone great, if they even are).

1. Beat Battletoads NES (US version) while using no save states, this was mainly with Mike and David in mind, and I wanted to see it in person. Obviously you can't game over. You have 4 months for this.

2. Beat Battletoads in Battlemaniacs SNES (US version) without dying. Same concept, and same amount of time. I prefer it done in person as well, but anybody can take it up.

3. Beat the Clinger Winger without the screen showing (like I did here ). The game makes you run through this in one life, but I'll give you three tries. You have 1 month to do this. I would like to see this in person preferably as well. Same reward.


So who's up?

[Dja Majista]

How do you define proficient? Capable of beating someone, or just being able to do the basics on command?

Or maybe just giving michael a challenge?

[toobz]

When I'm able to access my ps2 I'll definitely practice some capcom vs snk2. I won't be home until may though, so it will be about 5 or 6 weeks before I'll be able to start. If you get proficient in melee, meaning being able to perform the basics naturally under a normal 1v1 setting (and giving me a challenge ) then I'll be very impressed. I'm not doubting you, but lets just say I don't think you know what you're getting yourself into. Go to David's house at least once a week and practice with him. You guys are both learning the basics, and you will be good training partners.

I'll be able to come up there at some point in the summer probably, we'll see how good we've become at that time!

Also, if I have to beat battletoads in front of you that will have to wait until next time i come up as well, obviously. Looks like I have a game to practice! Get ready to lose that $100 c(:

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Mar 16, 2010 22:39:51 GMT -5 toobz said:

When I'm able to access my ps2 I'll definitely practice some capcom vs snk2. I won't be home until may though, so it will be about 5 or 6 weeks before I'll be able to start. If you get proficient in melee, meaning being able to perform the basics naturally under a normal 1v1 setting (and giving me a challenge ) then I'll be very impressed. I'm not doubting you, but lets just say I don't think you know what you're getting yourself into. Go to David's house at least once a week and practice with him. You guys are both learning the basics, and you will be good training partners.

I'll be able to come up there at some point in the summer probably, we'll see how good we've become at that time!

Also, if I have to beat battletoads in front of you that will have to wait until next time i come up as well, obviously. Looks like I have a game to practice! Get ready to lose that $100 c(:

I know I can do it... I didn't say it was easy or hard, just that I'm capable. I've had my fair share of games and have picked up on all of them rather quickly. I'm sure David and I will have fun playing. I am a challenge gamer so I put it upon myself to do things that are considered impossible all of the time, something less than 1% of the population can do. I'm sure that a good number of people can play Fox rather well who play Smash, but I'm sure it takes skill.

Oh and I don't think you know about Battletoads man. You're playing what is considered the hardest game ever. The final challenge is basically a level which less than 1% of the population of hardcore gamers can do, and making it so only a 100th of that percent can do it of hardcore gamers. Don't cry on me.

Nobody in the world has done that clinger winger stunt. I'd love for you to let me know what you think.

But to rub it in I beat both games in 2 days, and I beat the challenge in 3 hours. The time it took me to beat the SNES without dying was a couple of weeks. Now if you did the NES version without dying, I'd give you $200. And a kiss.

[toobz]

I was just messing around with the SNES version. I can't make it past the first stage without dying. This is just insane. Is the NES version considered more difficult?

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Mar 16, 2010 23:10:35 GMT -5 toobz said:

I was just messing around with the SNES version. I can't make it past the first stage without dying. This is just insane. Is the NES version considered more difficult?

Well it's the first version with twice as many levels. Some of the levels are revamped though in the SNES making them harder. But it is shorter, hence the "no dying' clause.



If you want to do the first, that vid might help a bit... don't be discouraged by the first part. On the first challenge you get all of your lives.

[Dja Majista]

Michael, do your fucking homework. Cordera, stop distracting him.

[toobz]

LMFAO

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Mar 16, 2010 23:49:29 GMT -5 toobz said:

LMFAO

Haha, you didn't say you had homework. Yea but let's have fun. I'm looking forward into getting into Smash again hopefully, it's been about 10 years.

Now I know you guys like Smash, but does playing Fox only on FD get boring at all? Do you ever mix it up a bit?

[Dja Majista]

Somehow I just knew.

I wouldn't call it boring, but we don't just play on FD.

[toobz]

Neutral stages are Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium, Fountain of Dreams and Final Destination. Fox is the bomb. He's about medium difficulty to learn on the newbie level, and at the advanced level he is the hardest character to play. I personally love fox dittos, because no matter how far behind you are there is always a possible comeback. My least favorite stage is Fountain of Dreams though. It just messes up Fox's combos so much. Final Destination CAN be boring for Fox dittos. Basically the most effective way to play that match is to chain grab until about 60% or so, land a back air and then edgeguard. Its effective, but can be boring.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Mar 17, 2010 0:31:52 GMT -5 toobz said:

Neutral stages are Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium, Fountain of Dreams and Final Destination. Fox is the bomb. He's about medium difficulty to learn on the newbie level, and at the advanced level he is the hardest character to play. I personally love fox dittos, because no matter how far behind you are there is always a possible comeback. My least favorite stage is Fountain of Dreams though. It just messes up Fox's combos so much. Final Destination CAN be boring for Fox dittos. Basically the most effective way to play that match is to chain grab until about 60% or so, land a back air and then edgeguard. Its effective, but can be boring.

Ah cool. Fox is my type of man then. Gameplay. I always hated him in the original Smash. Oh what irony now. I thought Yoshi's Story was banned because of the cloud or something?

[toobz]

You like semi-campy characters in fighting games, right? With akuma you basically spammed fireballs and looked for an opening (I know theres more to it than that, but I'm generalizing). Fox and Falco (Falco especially) are played the same way. As with all fighting games you never want to commit to an attack unless you're sure you can safely either retreat afterwords or have a follow-up. Basically no matter who you play in Melee, camp the hell out of your opponent. Whether its dashdance camping or projectile camping, make sure to play patiently. Also another bit you should know is that at the high levels of play, your character is ALWAYS moving. As far as technical aspects go, make sure that mastering your characters movement is top priority. With Fox that includes effective dashdancing, wavedashing, wavelanding, waveshining, short-hopping and fast falling.

www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=68

Thats the Melee Fox board. Smashboards is the place to go for all discussion, help, tips and guides for any of the smash games. Poke around there a bit and you'll find some helpful info.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Cool stuff. I guess it depends on the Akuma. Fireballs in 3s are useless for damage but great for mind games. Capcom vs SNK2 he is going to do his main damage up close. but his fireballs are more effective. Alpha 3 he would be better up close, though his projectile game is strong.

I tend to like several types, but it depends on the game. I generally play characters with a little bit of everything, like in Killer Instinct, in SNK2 I'm more up close. Rugal isn't a projectile character generally as his moves are obscure, but he is unique and harder to predict.

In Capcom vs SNK 2, you want to focus on your counter and specific move timing. I'd also recomend you get accustomed to at least 3 characters, and it wouldn't hurt to learn different types. Also learn the various grooves and systems as well. You will see combos in high level play, but you don't want to focus on those if your timing is off. If you look flashy but play sloppy (which I'm sure you won't), you won't do well. You also want to learn different tricks like empty jumps.

Now in 3S I played pretty easy, but you will want to try the advanced tactics like the Kara Throw, as it will give you range on your throw, and in SNK2 you want to master roll cancelling (as it is part of the challenge). It's not necessarily bad, but if other people have it mastered you *will not be able to play the game effectively*, but it can be powerful in adding depth, much like the "L Cancel" and the "wavedash", and making the tier system even more even along the wall. You want the movements down perfectly and to be able to do moves on command, especially if you are going to use Shin Akuma and God Rugal, they are only really powerful if you can do everything they have on command, otherwise they are worthless. But I'd recommend you fully master ken or something before Akuma as his movesets are more complicated to do, particularly the reverse semicircle motion, that can be hard for newer players.

I can see how movement will be very important in Smash. It looks beautiful in fluid. I saw M2K play online the other day.

[toobz]

I've heard the Kara throw is great for some characters, but it is unnecessary for Ken. I'm looking forward to going home and learning a new game I'm going to continue to practice 3s also, as it took my 2D virginity and I can't just ditch it like that . Roll-cancelling sounds insane. I'll do some research on that after school is over.

[Dja Majista]

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure God Rugal, Shin Akuma, (even regular Akuma), and EX grooves are typically banned in tournaments.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Mar 17, 2010 21:18:08 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure God Rugal, Shin Akuma, (even regular Akuma), and EX grooves are typically banned in tournaments.

It depends on the tournament you play really. Some allow ex grooves and others don't and some vary as well as what characters they allow. Regular Akuma isn't banned, he definitely isn't in any case. Characters who are home console only aren't included sometimes because they don't make the tournament testing phase and sometimes they included are much later; it depends on the tournament. I play Shin Akuma and God Rugal for the challenge, they definitely aren't easy to play, nothing more frustrating than winning a match completely and losing it because someone hit you with a level 3 and knocking you out instantly. I play them more for the fun and challenge of not getting hit. If someone were giving me a good challenge, which is quite rare, I'd switch to regular Ryu or Bison anyways. Sagat is also a better choice because he doesn't die fast. Also you do realize that roll canceling is banned in several US tournaments too right? Although some Japanese tournaments allow it, which is why the Japanese players cream US players. Even Japanese players ban it sometimes. Since Roll Canceling is far more powerful than anything else in the game, all the other stuff doesn't matter much without it, it's that serious. Besides mastering parrying, that is the ticket in this game too.

Don't believe me, play them yourselves. I'm sure David played Shin Akuma for a while and gave up playing him because of the low stamina, playing the regulars is generally your better choice realistically. Good luck on that roll cancel. Besides if you master roll canceling you could choose anybody and it wouldn't matter as much because of the frame advantage. I definitely wouldn't pick Shin Akuma or God Rugal against someone who has mastered it. I rotate characters regularly but I recommend Mike try different people to get a good grasp on the speed of things. I rotate characters regularly in VS battles, it's all in good fun.

Also this is the C-Master fun challenge, not the ABC "stop having fun" challenge. Shame on you David!

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Now here is a good game here:




I haven't played this in a long time. Good stuff.

[Dja Majista]

heh, super gem fighter rocked.

If Michael's fine with you using banned characters, OK. I don't have any stake in this. And yes you're right, sorry. Akuma isn't banned; he's mid tier. I should note that none of those characters though (God Rugal, S. Gouki, Evil Ryu) are on the tier list, and for good reason. I think S. Gouki's defense might balance him out but Evil Ryu and ESPECIALLY God Rugal, aren't deficient enough in defense to balance them out. And I don't care how "hard" it is to play them. If they're overpowered, they're overpowered.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

You've seen what I've meant now that I've been over. So it should be pretty simple to see my point.

Mar 18, 2010 14:48:11 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

heh, super gem fighter rocked.

If Michael's fine with you using banned characters, OK. I don't have any stake in this. And yes you're right, sorry. Akuma isn't banned; he's mid tier. I should note that none of those characters though (God Rugal, S. Gouki, Evil Ryu) are on the tier list, and for good reason. I think S. Gouki's defense might balance him out but Evil Ryu and ESPECIALLY God Rugal, aren't deficient enough in defense to balance them out. And I don't care how "hard" it is to play them. If they're overpowered, they're overpowered.

They aren't on the tier list because they are home only characters, home console only characters aren't on the list. God Rugal has the second lowest health in the game. You aren't going to convince anybody who is good at the game with the two characters and some of the others that they are overpowered in a versus match because nobody ever dominates with them in serious competition. They halve the defense in boss characters (who don't have great defense so they often die in one hit or one super). If someone is as good as you, you won't use the characters at all, they've actually been called worthless in many cases (You think Evil Ryu is overpowered? I think Sagat is "better" realistically). I plan on swapping them out. However the main reason I inquired him to play as them is to learn not to get hit in the game, because playing with characters that have low health can't afford to, that and because their movements are obscure enough that they take good hand speed. By "hard" to play I mean "hard" to win with effectively. I'm getting back into Bison again.

I rotate characters anyways, and believe me, they don't wreck the game. Gill is a different story though. I play him for the laughs. I play these characters for the challenge. With roll canceling, they aren't really ideal picks because of their health anyways, once you use the "overpowered" ability everything changes. Like I said Roll Canceling is often banned as well, which is why I included the other stuff. It isn't to make it "easy" but fun and challenging. This is the "C-Master" challenge, so we do it the C-Master way. This is for the best though.

But ignore David Mike, still play with S. Akuma and G. Rugal some to get the speed down and to maximize with your potential. You don't have to main them though.

[toobz]

Haha ok I'll still try them out. I need to make a 3 man team though, right? Thats gonna take a while to figure out. Hopefully I'll have time to put a lot of effort into the game after school is over.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Yea. Try Ken, someone with a good horizontal to maximize the RC (Bison, Balrog, Honda, Blanka), and another of your choice. You're going to need the time for the RC, lol. That thing is no joke. On the good side of things I enjoy smash and I'm playing it. I'm able to do the moves some, now I'll master them and focus on stringing them.

[toobz]

You bought a cube? You should watch some videos online. Once you master the movement you'll be able to get some ideas on how to use it that way. Different tactics, etc.

[Dja Majista]

Mar 18, 2010 17:15:36 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

You've seen what I've meant now that I've been over. So it should be pretty simple to see my point.

Mar 18, 2010 14:48:11 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

heh, super gem fighter rocked.

If Michael's fine with you using banned characters, OK. I don't have any stake in this. And yes you're right, sorry. Akuma isn't banned; he's mid tier. I should note that none of those characters though (God Rugal, S. Gouki, Evil Ryu) are on the tier list, and for good reason. I think S. Gouki's defense might balance him out but Evil Ryu and ESPECIALLY God Rugal, aren't deficient enough in defense to balance them out. And I don't care how "hard" it is to play them. If they're overpowered, they're overpowered.

They aren't on the tier list because they are home only characters, home console only characters aren't on the list. God Rugal has the second lowest health in the game. You aren't going to convince anybody who is good at the game with the two characters and some of the others that they are overpowered in a versus match because nobody ever dominates with them in serious competition. They halve the defense in boss characters (who don't have great defense so they often die in one hit or one super). If someone is as good as you, you won't use the characters at all, they've actually been called worthless in many cases (You think Evil Ryu is overpowered? I think Sagat is "better" realistically). I plan on swapping them out. However the main reason I inquired him to play as them is to learn not to get hit in the game, because playing with characters that have low health can't afford to, that and because their movements are obscure enough that they take good hand speed. By "hard" to play I mean "hard" to win with effectively. I'm getting back into Bison again.

I rotate characters anyways, and believe me, they don't wreck the game. Gill is a different story though. I play him for the laughs. I play these characters for the challenge. With roll canceling, they aren't really ideal picks because of their health anyways, once you use the "overpowered" ability everything changes. Like I said Roll Canceling is often banned as well, which is why I included the other stuff. It isn't to make it "easy" but fun and challenging. This is the "C-Master" challenge, so we do it the C-Master way. This is for the best though.

But ignore David Mike, still play with S. Akuma and G. Rugal some to get the speed down and to maximize with your potential. You don't have to main them though.

Yeah look, I don't care what you guys do. Like I said, I have no stake in it. As long as you both agree on the terms, it's fine. And apparently you do.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

David just wanted some fun. lol j/k

Mar 19, 2010 0:21:25 GMT -5 toobz said:

You bought a cube? You should watch some videos online. Once you master the movement you'll be able to get some ideas on how to use it that way. Different tactics, etc.

Nope David is loaning me his. I'm going to get one soon. I'll find the time to track one down. I'm enjoying it, so that is the good part. The biggest challenge is getting into things for me.

[toobz]

Mar 19, 2010 1:03:37 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Mar 18, 2010 17:15:36 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

You've seen what I've meant now that I've been over. So it should be pretty simple to see my point. They aren't on the tier list because they are home only characters, home console only characters aren't on the list. God Rugal has the second lowest health in the game. You aren't going to convince anybody who is good at the game with the two characters and some of the others that they are overpowered in a versus match because nobody ever dominates with them in serious competition. They halve the defense in boss characters (who don't have great defense so they often die in one hit or one super). If someone is as good as you, you won't use the characters at all, they've actually been called worthless in many cases (You think Evil Ryu is overpowered? I think Sagat is "better" realistically). I plan on swapping them out. However the main reason I inquired him to play as them is to learn not to get hit in the game, because playing with characters that have low health can't afford to, that and because their movements are obscure enough that they take good hand speed. By "hard" to play I mean "hard" to win with effectively. I'm getting back into Bison again.

I rotate characters anyways, and believe me, they don't wreck the game. Gill is a different story though. I play him for the laughs. I play these characters for the challenge. With roll canceling, they aren't really ideal picks because of their health anyways, once you use the "overpowered" ability everything changes. Like I said Roll Canceling is often banned as well, which is why I included the other stuff. It isn't to make it "easy" but fun and challenging. This is the "C-Master" challenge, so we do it the C-Master way. This is for the best though.

But ignore David Mike, still play with S. Akuma and G. Rugal some to get the speed down and to maximize with your potential. You don't have to main them though.

Yeah look, I don't care what you guys do. Like I said, I have no stake in it. As long as you both agree on the terms, it's fine. And apparently you do.

I don't really know wtf is going on. All I'm gonna do is try and learn some cvs2 and see how it goes. I'm going to try and play as they would in a tournament, so I probably won't use characters that aren't in tournaments. I will try out those other characters for fun, but my team of characters is going to be tourney acceptable. I will try out the god characters for the hell of it though.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Yea just try it yourself. That's the best route. They are available in some tournaments, along with the ex grooves, but in some they aren't, just like roll canceling, so it depends on your tourney. They have similar (and more complicated) move commands than their counterparts, but they're harder to play with. You won't think they are overpowered once you see just how fast they die. Most Capcom vs SNK 2 experts will tell you that you wouldn't main them in high end play. If someone says otherwise they aren't familiar with the characters and their mechanics. #ignore1we# It takes more skill to play them than any other character in the game. This is to bring the most out of the game I'd actually recommend you not main them even if you can.

For example I want to play on tournament allowed levels in Smash, but I would still play the others, like Hyrule temple, for fun. But I would rotate out, does that make sense?

[toobz]

Pretty subjective, but alright.

Regarding hyrule temple: once you learn how to play, it won't be as fun :/ The only thing that it is helpful with is practice teching.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Mar 19, 2010 17:21:40 GMT -5 toobz said:

Pretty subjective, but alright.

Regarding hyrule temple: once you learn how to play, it won't be as fun :/ The only thing that it is helpful with is practice teching.

Lol I imagine, I'm not familiar enough with the game to know the difference yet.

Ultimately we are all subjective, but most will see my point as I play the game with several characters including them.

Anyways roll canceling is what you need to focus on ultimately because the timing is very tight. I'm trying to get it perfectly myself, though it is something you will never do 100 percent of the time. You will need a lot of time on this portion trust me. It isn't simple at all, find a good controller to use for this game as well.

[Saikyo Kid]

Wait, what the hell is goin' on here?