Does God exist?

[Dja Majista]

Aug 6, 2008 0:22:07 GMT -5 Squid Lord said:

aahh, well, then I did

The next 2 quotes fall under this next statement. I'm not saying that directly, nor am I trying to say that as my main point in that thought. We call each other "him" and "her", same goes for animals [which we are (throwing in the scientific aspect to say that we are animals, all of us)]. Since we are calling each other "him" and "her" and we name god with "him" and "her", one must assume that god is human. Not only are we capitalizing the 'H' in both instances but we also capitalize the 'G' as well.

Anything that has gender in some form or fashion can be called 'him' or 'her'. People call boats 'her' or 'she' but it doesn't follow that they are fleshy animals, much less human. Also it's only incidental that we find gender in the kingdom animalia. Doesn't it seem reasonable that there could be non-animal subjects that have gender as well?

Now "simply written text" is where i shall begin, they are written, back in a long while, and taken too seriously, thus the churches/religious areas were formed.

what's your reasoning for saying they were taken too seriously?

I haven't seen any illustrations myself, but you did say it mentions at points where god and humans [...or human and humans, to follow my previous statement] are similar.

It suggests certain similarities in qualities. God has emotion for example. Also He is capable of love as are we. Again, similar in ways but certainly not the same. I can list off hundreds of similarities dogs and humans have with one another. A dog is still a dog.

[Squid Lord]

Ok, i accept that statement, but then it also implies that god is an object as apposed to a living creature?

I simply suggest that the whole story in the bible is a false reality for people to find something hopeful in whilst we live in a shit-filled world. We see evolution around us, it's not as dramatic as monkeys to humans at the moment, but Viruses evolve, bacterium evolve. As for things we can see and study without a microscope: There's a salamander that is hunted by a snake. The snake uses a paralyzing poison, the salamander has evolved to resist the poison, and the snake has evolved a higher resistance to it's own poison [making the salamander edible to it] and heightening it's own poison strength to paralyze said salamander. It's too viable to pass up.

If god is this all mighty being, why not construct another being of lesser existence in his own visage?

[Dja Majista]

Aug 8, 2008 22:32:38 GMT -5 Squid Lord said:

Ok, i accept that statement, but then it also implies that god is an object as apposed to a living creature?

How do you construe that?

I simply suggest that the whole story in the bible is a false reality for people to find something hopeful in whilst we live in a shit-filled world. We see evolution around us, it's not as dramatic as monkeys to humans at the moment, but Viruses evolve, bacterium evolve. As for things we can see and study without a microscope: There's a salamander that is hunted by a snake. The snake uses a paralyzing poison, the salamander has evolved to resist the poison, and the snake has evolved a higher resistance to it's own poison [making the salamander edible to it] and heightening it's own poison strength to paralyze said salamander. It's too viable to pass up.

Evolution is a very convincing theory to me. And as a matter of fact, I'm not so sure that it contradicts the bible's message either.

However, bare in mind that micro evolution is not the same as macro
evolution. We see micro evolution all the time, but there is no undeniable evidence to one species evolving into another.

If god is this all mighty being, why not construct another being of lesser existence in his own visage?

Could you elaborate on this one?

[Joker]

There is a God out there watching over everything. It's my belief that there's absolutely no way this world and the eons of other worlds came about by chance.

[Magic attack]

Aug 30, 2008 19:19:39 GMT -5 Joker said:

There is a God out there watching over everything. It's my belief that there's absolutely no way this world and the eons of other worlds came about by chance.

That is your belief and you are free to feel that way, but some of us don't share those beliefs.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

So you believe in Big Bang? I'm just curious.

[Dja Majista]

I'd like to add, I don't think we should be looking at The Big Bang Theory as an explanation of the beginning of the universe anymore. The Big Bang is very plausible, but it merely represents a stage in the universe's life cycle (the point at which the universe stops contracting and starts expanding) not it's genesis.

I don't think it's completely absurd though to believe that matter has simply always existed.

[Joker]

Everything that is this way is the doing of God. That's how I see it.

[Magic attack]

Sept 2, 2008 15:18:58 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

So you believe in Big Bang? I'm just curious.

Dja Majista said it pretty well.

[Dja Majista]

Second time in a row on the same thread! I'm on a roll!

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Call him butter.

[JACK-2]

How would you define God?

[Dja Majista]

That question is so far out of my league. I don't know exactly, how would you? And are you asking for a Christian's definition of the Christian God or of the term "god" taken loosely and in all its ambiguous glory?

[JACK-2]

Both to be honest.

[Dja Majista]

Well, I'd be hard pressed to identify any essential features in either of those. For the latter, I'm inclined to give you a dictionary definition. For the former, well, I wouldn't know where to begin. I'll get back to you on it maybe.

[JACK-2]

Anyway, after researching for a while I now believe that there is an omnipotent God which exsist beyond creation. However, no one can know or prove said God exsist. [How convienient.]

[Dja Majista]

Feb 21, 2009 19:11:20 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Anyway, after researching for a while I know believe that there is an omnipotent God which exsist beyond creation. However, no one can know or prove said God exsist.

I'd be interested to hear what your research involved.

[How convienient.]

Truth be told, I sympathize with that sentiment. It raises the question, "Was the idea of 'omnipotence' just a safeguard on some elaborate scheme to make him 'unfalsifiable'? Or is that just the way things are?" I'd have to say, with your definition of omnipotence, which I think you probably share with most people, the former question is quite valid. But if you adopt the way me and some of these other people see it, omnipotence is merely another stipulation on God's essence; another feature of the definition of God if you will. And the more specifically God is defined, the more falsifiable he is.

[JACK-2]

Omnipotence is what it is, All power. The power to do all things just like I believe God to be:

"But Jesus looked at them and said, With men this is impossible, but all things are possible with God." - Matt. 19:26


"Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God." -Luke 18:27



I'm agnostic when it comes to the lord which means I believe it's impossible for a man to know God or even prove his exsistence. I only postulate whether God can exsist or not and I know I cannot prove he does exsist. At the sametime I really don't care too much, because it cab seen that my belief that there is a God is as good as an Atheist belief that there is no God. So, there's no point in my eye's to argue such a thing. Your right, omnipotence is a stipulation of Gods essense. But, it's one of the more crucial stipulations of his nature.

[warmunger]

Isnt trying 2 describe God a sin?

[JACK-2]

Not to my knowledge.

[Dja Majista]

Feb 22, 2009 0:45:28 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Omnipotence is what it is, All power. The power to do all things just like I believe God to be:

"But Jesus looked at them and said, With men this is impossible, but all things are possible with God." - Matt. 19:26


"Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God." -Luke 18:27



I'm agnostic when it comes to the lord which means I believe it's impossible for a man to know God or even prove his exsistence. I only postulate whether God can exsist or not and I know I cannot prove he does exsist. At the sametime I really don't care too much, because it cab seen that my belief that there is a God is as good as an Atheist belief that there is no God. So, there's no point in my eye's to argue such a thing. Your right, omnipotence is a stipulation of Gods essense. But, it's one of the more crucial stipulations of his nature.

First of all, I don't really want to talk about the problem of omnipotence across theads. My point was to say that a God with many or multiple stipulations on his essence, can make him falsifiable, omnipotence just being one of them. The problem that probably demonstrates this best is the problem of evil. It uses one common sense fact about the world--that there are massive amounts of unspeakable evil in it--to show that their cannot be a being who is both all powerful and all good. If God is able(omnipotent) and willing(all good) to get rid of all evil, why doesn't he? To account for the fact that there is evil in the world, only one or neither of these stipulations can be true. Therefore, a God who has a more specifically defined essence is more likely to be falsifiable than a god with a vaguely defined essence or perhaps just the idea of "god."

I am an agnostic theist myself, but I differ with a lot agnostics on what it means for something to be proven, and what it means to know, or be justified in believing something. The problem with the agnostic creed is that we use the term proof so vaguely. There are such things as 100% proofs (AKA deductive proofs of which mathematical formulas are an example) and not-quite-100% proofs (AKA inductive, science consists entirely of these). Now, with the agnostics, I agree there is no way to prove or disprove the existence of God 100%. BUT maybe there are ways to prove his existence 80% or 95%. This doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on what we're specifically talking about, but I thought I'd outline a few of my beliefs for your own reference.

Now, you said it can be seen this way, that a theist's case for the existence of God is just as good as the atheists case to the contrary. But that doesn't mean they really are just as good. How much value do you place in such a subjective sentiment? Further, how does that render the question of God's existence insignificant, or something you shouldn't care about?

[warmunger]

Feb 23, 2009 21:20:34 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Not to my knowledge.

Well, if that's the case, I was told N church that God is the almighty, all C-ing, and all noing spirit who hates the sin but luvs the sinner who made us N his image.

I was told that God looks like a man and a spirit at the same time.

[JACK-2]

Mar 3, 2009 16:09:59 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

First of all, I don't really want to talk about the problem of omnipotence across theads. My point was to say that a God with many or multiple stipulations on his essence, can make him falsifiable, omnipotence just being one of them. The problem that probably demonstrates this best is the problem of evil. It uses one common sense fact about the world--that there are massive amounts of unspeakable evil in it--to show that their cannot be a being who is both all powerful and all good. If God is able(omnipotent) and willing(all good) to get rid of all evil, why doesn't he? To account for the fact that there is evil in the world, only one or neither of these stipulations can be true.

I just wanna say that God transcends concepts such as Good and Evil. He incarnates his power in both good and evil ways all the time because he is both ogod and Evil. . .and beyond them. Second, all earthly evils originates from the hearts of men peroid. I believe God is mostly non-interventionalist and to eliminate evil would mean to change an aspect of what it means to be human. We need both good and evil to learn spiritual truth. Without pain and suffering we would never need such virtous such as courage or patience. Finally, this world is ours. . .It's Gods gift to us. What we do in it is our doing and our doing alone. Why should God have to eliminate something we can do ourselves? The point is even evil has a purpose.

Mar 3, 2009 16:09:59 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

I am an agnostic theist myself, but I differ with a lot agnostics on what it means for something to be proven, and what it means to know, or be justified in believing something. The problem with the agnostic creed is that we use the term proof so vaguely. There are such things as 100% proofs (AKA deductive proofs of which mathematical formulas are an example) and not-quite-100% proofs (AKA inductive, science consists entirely of these). Now, with the agnostics, I agree there is no way to prove or disprove the existence of God 100%. BUT maybe there are ways to prove his existence 80% or 95%. This doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on what we're specifically talking about, but I thought I'd outline a few of my beliefs for your own reference.

I just wanna say that I for one do not believe in justifying any beliefs just to believe. Anyone has the right to believe and they can believe what they want. Furthermore, I know I cannot prove things like the exsistence of God or anything like that because 1) It cannot be proven in my belief and 2) I certainly do not care to prove it.

Mar 3, 2009 16:09:59 GMT -5 Dja Majista said:

Now, you said it can be seen this way, that a theist's case for the existence of God is just as good as the atheists case to the contrary. But that doesn't mean they really are just as good. How much value do you place in such a subjective sentiment? Further, how does that render the question of God's existence insignificant, or something you shouldn't care about?

I certainly don't care about because I believe it is impossible to know. I'm agnostic which means I believe men as we are now cannot fully understand, percieve, and certainly prove there is God. All the words I use to describe God are just to describe how above everything it is, but we can never know what it is. And, if this argument is not good enough for atheist or theist it really isn't my problem. Because I'm not trying to prove God exsist, I'm just stating my belief.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

I actually like hearing that different perception on good and evil and how it is needed for spiritual growth, I've never heard it said quite like that.

[JACK-2]

2009 huh?

Buy, was I a different person. Agnostic? lol. Yes, I believe in God.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Dec 18, 2013 17:19:05 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

2009 huh?

Buy, was I a different person. Agnostic? lol. Yes, I believe in God.

You seem more laid back now. You must have gone through a lot.

[JACK-2]

Dec 18, 2013 17:24:22 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

You seem more laid back now. You must have gone through a lot.

Thanks for noticing. I was a really bitter and angry person back then. Vs debates didn't help. I've learned how to accept things I can't change and live life for myself these days. I've also developed new hobbies: J hip hop, Buddhist Iconography, etc.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Dec 18, 2013 17:27:19 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Dec 18, 2013 17:24:22 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

You seem more laid back now. You must have gone through a lot.

Thanks for noticing. I was a really bitter and angry person back then. Vs debates didn't help. I've learned how to accept things I can't change and live life for myself these days. I've also developed new hobbies: J hip hop, Buddhist Iconography, etc.

Glad all of that worked out for you bro. You seem to have improved a lot.

[JACK-2]

Dec 18, 2013 17:36:11 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

You seem to have improved a lot.

You helped me too bro. That site you gave me:

nononesenseselfdefense

Had alot of life changing articles. I even talked to marc animal macyoung via e-mail. Gave me alot of good advice that helped change my life.

[The Big Daddy C-Master]

Dec 18, 2013 17:39:49 GMT -5 JACK-2 said:

Dec 18, 2013 17:36:11 GMT -5 The Big Daddy C-Master said:

You seem to have improved a lot.

You helped me too bro. That site you gave me:

nononesenseselfdefense

Had alot of life changing articles. I even talked to marc animal macyoung via e-mail. Gave me alot of good advice that helped change my life.

Yea that's a great site. I bareley remember that. I did used to read it quite a bit and even wrote a report on it. Glad to be of help.